Redsiders in Kallisti Wharf

[Lunar Ronin]

I can't see the griping about villains running around Paragon City when you have Longbow running around, using flamethrowers willy nilly.  Heck, the villains will probably do less damage.

[Rikmach]

13 hours ago, lemming said:

I don't think there is a mechanism for targeting only once you have certain badges or souvenirs.   (And could be confusing for some, even it did straighten out some lore bits.   Currently, you can just be clued in by one of your compatriots)

 

Well, I'm not exactly asking for a mechanical system that dynamically changes viable targets based on your character's individual knowledge (though if that could be implemented mechanically, that's a pretty cool idea and have some neat potential!), I'm more asking for a more clear lore justification of what's currently possible.

[Rikmach]

13 hours ago, Lunar Ronin said:

I can't see the griping about villains running around Paragon City when you have Longbow running around, using flamethrowers willy nilly.  Heck, the villains will probably do less damage.

Honestly, I find Longbow's existence hilarious.  They're technically all criminals because they're an extralegal organization operating in blatant defiance of international law, but everyone overlooks it because the person running them is the granddaughter of the most famous superhero in the world, and no one likes the person they're targeting.

[UltraAlt]

21 hours ago, Rikmach said:

It's not a *mechanical* game term, no, but several times, various contacts have refereed to places as a "Free-Fire Zone", so it's an in-universe term, and it's not too hard to grasp what is meant by it.

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Free_Fire_Zone_Transport

The Free Fire Zone Transports, introduced in Issue 27, are two separate transit networks that allow convenient traveling between City Zones and PvP Zones.

 

There is also a "Free-Fire Zone" neighborhood in First Ward.

 

21 hours ago, Rikmach said:

Striga is run by the Council, an organization that is openly hostile to Arachnos, and a direct competitor to it's agenda, and the isle itself is not guarded or otherwise blockaded by Paragon city or other heroic forces (like, why would they?), so to me, it makes complete sense for villains to want to go there and fuck the Council's shit up and/or steal their stuff.

 

We each have our point of views.

The Council doesn't mess with the Rogue Isles; the Arachnos don't mess with Striga. It seems to be that these two criminal organizations have some respect for each other's boundaries. 

I agree that doesn't mean that stray villains (which is what most villains really are ... they are not actually members of Arachnos at any point - unless they are VEAT ... and even they don't really seem to be) wouldn't have some reason to go to Striga, but, based on what is going on there, I can't even see a reason for a rogue to go there - let alone a villian. There seems to be no profit there. It isn't like you are going to find the massive gold haul or religious relics that the Council carted off from 5th Column strongholds which they carted of from those guys in World War 2's strongholds....

 

22 hours ago, Faultline said:

Eden is a zone that villains can canonically fly into undetected - there is at least one villain arc that sends you to Eden with a flyer.

 

Is the villain transported to the actual open world zone or is it within a door mission (either the flyer or Eden) that is accessed from a villain location?

 

 

21 hours ago, Rikmach said:

I mean, that's the point of the reputation system, isn't it?

 

No, not really.

 

The villain side always had a smaller population. 

It was a way to give villains access to the hero-side gaming population and back to villainy again.

And it was done during the funneling times to give villains the option to be able to move to the heroside with move players when they couldn't find a team on the villian side.

Before the Market merger, the influence market was the big market. The Infamy and Information market were under stocked and much higher priced. In which case, I seem to recall you would have to go to at least vigilante to gain access to the influence market.

Either way, it was really more for villains having the ability to interact with the larger hero-side player base.

 

I'm sure some people did, but here was really no good reason to switch a hero to even a rogue unless you wanted to solo villain content, team with a friend that was already playing a villain, or for some role-playing reason. It is still that way as far as I'm concerned.

 

It was a way to slide in a bunch of missions into the game without adding any contacts so that the tips could basically be used like the police scanners or newspaper missions. Once you get started on doing tips, you and pretty continually get one to free any free tip slots pretty quickly.

 

 

[Rikmach]

2 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

We each have our point of views.

The Council doesn't mess with the Rogue Isles; the Arachnos don't mess with Striga. It seems to be that these two criminal organizations have some respect for each other's boundaries. 

 

Have... have you not played redside in a while?  Because-  well, not to be rude, you're completely wrong here- it's stated- multiple times- that the Council and Arachnos are actively at odds with each other, and Arachnos sends to you attack the Council multiple times.  and the Council is absolutely messing with Arachnos, they've forcefully created a base on Sharkshead, and it's open knowledge that Arachnos does not consider them welcome, and has attempted to evict them multiple times, and only still exist there because of their dogged persistence and the fact that Arachnos has higher priorities at the moment.   Heck, go look at the Council page on the wiki!   The first paragraph states that Arachnos and the Council are in conflict!

 

2 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

I agree that doesn't mean that stray villains (which is what most villains really are ... they are not actually members of Arachnos at any point - unless they are VEAT ... and even they don't really seem to be) wouldn't have some reason to go to Striga, but, based on what is going on there, I can't even see a reason for a rogue to go there - let alone a villian. There seems to be no profit there. It isn't like you are going to find the massive gold haul or religious relics that the Council carted off from 5th Column strongholds which they carted of from those guys in World War 2's strongholds....

 

Ok, at the level Striga takes place at, the villains are still ostensibly Chosen Ones, meaning that even if they aren't actively working for Arachnos, they still have Arachnos' backing, and access to their information networks, meaning they'd be aware of the situation there, and have access to transportation to and contacts there.   and I'm not sure why you think that villains and rogues wouldn't be interested in plundering the secrets, resources and equipment of a fascist paramilitary organization.  That doesn't seem like "no profit" to me.   Bad guy's money steals just as good as everyone else's, after all.

 

2 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

No, not really.

 

The villain side always had a smaller population. 

It was a way to give villains access to the hero-side gaming population and back to villainy again.

And it was done during the funneling times to give villains the option to be able to move to the heroside with move players when they couldn't find a team on the villian side.

Before the Market merger, the influence market was the big market. The Infamy and Information market were under stocked and much higher priced. In which case, I seem to recall you would have to go to at least vigilante to gain access to the influence market.

Either way, it was really more for villains having the ability to interact with the larger hero-side player base.

 

I'm sure some people did, but here was really no good reason to switch a hero to even a rogue unless you wanted to solo villain content, team with a friend that was already playing a villain, or for some role-playing reason. It is still that way as far as I'm concerned.

 

It was a way to slide in a bunch of missions into the game without adding any contacts so that the tips could basically be used like the police scanners or newspaper missions. Once you get started on doing tips, you and pretty continually get one to free any free tip slots pretty quickly.

 

You're... missing the point I was making.  I was saying,  "Isn't that the in-universe reasoning behind it?", not the mechanical/gameplay reason.  I thought that was obvious from context, since we were discussing in-universe logic of why Rogues are tolerated in Paragon.

Edited Monday at 10:21 AM by Rikmach

[UltraAlt]

7 hours ago, Rikmach said:

Have... have you not played redside in a while?

 

Yeah, I have only minorly tinkered on the villainside since since Homecoming has been up.

I only played it though to 50 on one character on live ... because I paid for the content - which I paid for mainly for the supergroup base, getting more character slots, and supporting the game.

I seriously can't remember content with Arachnos fighting the Council or the other way around. They always seem to be separate ... in what what I remember seeingin the game.

 

7 hours ago, Rikmach said:

the Council is absolutely messing with Arachnos, they've forcefully created a base on Sharkshead, and it's open knowledge that Arachnos .... has attempted to evict them multiple times, and only still exist there

 

Maybe I'll have to take the time to go look at that base. I have been through Sharkshead and I never noticed it.

 

7 hours ago, Rikmach said:

Heck, go look at the Council page on the wiki!   The first paragraph states that Arachnos and the Council are in conflict!

 

Okay thanks. Can't say that I have even read 1/10th of the wiki. 

Really never had any reason to go there and read the Council one for sure.

 

7 hours ago, Rikmach said:

Ok, at the level Striga takes place at, the villains are still ostensibly Chosen Ones, meaning that even if they aren't actively working for Arachnos, they still have Arachnos' backing, and access to their information networks, meaning they'd be aware of the situation there, and have access to transportation to and contacts there.   and I'm not sure why you think that villains and rogues wouldn't be interested in plundering the secrets, resources and equipment of a fascist paramilitary organization.  That doesn't seem like "no profit" to me.   Bad guy's money steals just as good as everyone else's, after all.

 

I feel that Arachnos NPC treat villain PCs as lackeys and useless fools to be manipulated for their own NPC gain. 

My villains are all independent of Arachnos.

All the industry laborers in the Isles seem independent of Arachnos as well.

I'm not sure I'm seeing any plundering benefiting that PCs that work for Arachnos or the other contacts/con-men/etc. on the villain side.

 

My villainous game play at this point is mainly focused around getting and running mayhem missions. And I haven't been actively doing that for a long time.

 

7 hours ago, Rikmach said:

You're... missing the point I was making.  I was saying,  "Isn't that the in-universe reasoning behind it?", not the mechanical/gameplay reason.  I thought that was obvious from context, since we were discussing in-universe logic of why Rogues are tolerated in Paragon.

 

Oh, sorry, I didn't realize we were back on that again when it came to this topic. I thought that was related to the original topic.

 

I'll try to remember this whole thread is about the role-playing aspect versus mechanics. (I do feel that the role-playing is part of the gameplay)

 

The comment "I mean, that's the point of the reputation system, isn't it?" threw me off. Seemed to be mechanics question.

 

[Rikmach]

10 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

Yeah, I have only minorly tinkered on the villainside since since Homecoming has been up.

I only played it though to 50 on one character on live ... because I paid for the content - which I paid for mainly for the supergroup base, getting more character slots, and supporting the game.

I seriously can't remember content with Arachnos fighting the Council or the other way around. They always seem to be separate ... in what what I remember seeing in the game.

 

 

Maybe I'll have to take the time to go look at that base. I have been through Sharkshead and I never noticed it.

 

 

Okay thanks. Can't say that I have even read 1/10th of the wiki. 

Really never had any reason to go there and read the Council one for sure.

 

Ok, so you only did it back in live?   Fair enough, I can see the memories fading after that long.   But yeah, the Council is one of the major enemy groups in Sharkshead-  the only contacts that *don't* send you to fight them are Crash Cage, Vince Dubrowski and Henri Dumot (Since they're focused on Cage Consortium stuff), Diviner Maros, Vincent Ross, and Archmage Tarixus (Since they're concerned with the mystic going-ons in the island) and Dean Macarthur and Leonard (Since they're part of the newer Protean story arc that was added issue 17), And Darrin Wade (Since he's a Signature Story Arc contact)- and four of those were added after the zone's initial release.

Captain Petrovich, Lt. Chalmers, Lorenz Ansaldo, Operative Vargas, Operative Kirkland, and Doc Buzzsaw all send you after the Council there, and both the Operatives are Arachnos representatives, and discuss the conflict between Arachnos and the Council there.   To be fair, most of these are one-off misions, and not full story arcs about the conflict itself, so I can grasp it slipping the mind easily.

 

As for the base itself, if you want to check it out, it's in the southern part of the "The Pit" area-  They built it in the open-pit mine in the area.   There's actually an exploration badge "Unwelcome Guest" at the entrance, referencing the fact that Arachnos (and others) don't want them there.

 

10 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

I feel that Arachnos NPC treat villain PCs as lackeys and useless fools to be manipulated for their own NPC gain. 

My villains are all independent of Arachnos.

All the industry laborers in the Isles seem independent of Arachnos as well.

I'm not sure I'm seeing any plundering benefiting that PCs that work for Arachnos or the other contacts/con-men/etc. on the villain side.

 

My villainous game play at this point is mainly focused around getting and running mayhem missions. And I haven't been actively doing that for a long time.

 

Like, to be fair, the entire "Destined One" scheme did turn out to be a scam on Recluse's part, but it does provide benefits for those that go along with it, so most of my villains see it as exploiting Arachnos to their own benefit- but I entirely grasp the idea of villains being suspicious or disdainful of Arachnos' seeming generosity and reject it- the devs did intentionally make it so it's possible to level 1-50 Redside without ever working for Arachnos.

 

Also, in regards to the Industry/civilian operations on the Isle?  They're "Independent" depending on what you mean by that word-  Yes, most of them are privately owned and operated, or corporate entities- but remember, Arachnos is the de facto government on the isles-  they're under arachnos' rule, and pay them taxes.

Edited Tuesday at 04:44 AM by Rikmach