MA/ Martial Arts and Eagle Claw scrapper critical strike proc

[autoriot]

Alt'd my third MA scrapper last night, this time with the perfect secondary (lol), having a blast with my Kung fu kicks of fury! I know it's been asked 1,000 times but I'm looking for data to crit proc or not to proc EC. I understand it's a long animation with high crit chance as well as the next 2s boost. But DPS wise, how inefficient is slotting Crippling Axe Kick or even preferably proc Cobra Strike and dropping Eagle's Claw altogether?

 

Is the almost guaranteed proc really worth the slots and wind up animation? I'll probably spend a couple hours on the test server, but it'd be cool if someone already has the spread sheet for CS > proc % > DT/CAK-SK repeat vs EC. Thanks.

[Uun]

You're misunderstanding how the Critical Strikes proc works. It doesn't effect the power it's slotted in. It increases your chance for a critical hit by 50% for 3.25s after that power's execution. As a result, you want to slot the proc in the power you use before your heavy hitter, generally one with a short animation time after effect (this animation time cuts into the 3.25s window). For Martial Arts, your best choices are Storm Kick and Crippling Axe Kick. 

 

Even with Eagles Claw's higher (15%) critical chance, an attack chain with any combination of Storm Kick, Cobra Strike, Crane Kick and/or Crippling Axe Kick will result in higher DPS than an attack chain including Eagles Claw. That said, I take it anyway because I like the animation (and my main has been a Martial Arts scrapper since 2004).

[SomeGuy]

1 hour ago, Uun said:

Even with Eagles Claw's higher (15%) critical chance, an attack chain with any combination of Storm Kick, Cobra Strike, Crane Kick and/or Crippling Axe Kick will result in higher DPS than an attack chain including Eagles Claw.

 

 

I'm going to need to see numerical proof of this cause this is absolutely not been what I'm seeing in actual gameplay. 

 

I tried to make numerous DPS rotations WITHOUT EC be better and never found one. The thing is, I DO have numerical proof that EC is part of the best MA attack chain. I've shared it here in these forums a few times actually.

Edited June 14 by SomeGuy

[Uun]

53 minutes ago, SomeGuy said:

I'm going to need to see numerical proof of this cause this is absolutely not been what I'm seeing in actual gameplay. 

 

I tried to make numerous DPS rotations WITHOUT EC be better and never found one. The thing is, I DO have numerical proof that EC is part of the best MA attack chain. I've shared it here in these forums a few times actually.

This is the analysis I did. I don't actually have either snipe in my build but I included them for reference. I'm certainly willing to look at this a different way and I'll take a look for your post.

 

[autoriot]

I understand how the crit proc works, I even wrote CS > proc % > DT/CAK-SK at the end. All good tho. My question isn't eagle claw itself 15% crit chance but the 33% crit boost for 2s after, stacked with 50% for 3.25s when slotted with superior and another 6% from scrapper for a total 89% boost on top of the next attacks base 10% chance almost guarantees the attack after Eagle's Claw to crit when crit strike procs. Super helpful to plan dragons tail or CAX/SK to crit after.

 

But I'm wondering with the long animation of Eagle's Claw, is it better to proc Cobra Strike? (I get CAX would have a tad better proc rate but CS has more slots to spare preferably).  Guassians, in build up if it went off, would effect a higher DPA attack like Cobra Strike, hopefully proc crit strike, albiet at a lower proc rate AND lowe crit chance, but have guassians proc still up for DT/CAX and possibly even SK with it's blazing fast animation, crit or no crit. And then you're back to Cobra Stikes and have a chance to proc crit strike again while build up is up with another possible round of critting on DT/CAX and SK. And repeat, and repeat dropping Eagle's Claw, the 33% boost after and the 2.772s animation in hopes faster animation with build up upsets.

 

Idk I really should just test it out. The delays and animations are so tight it's difficult to map if an extra attack would fall with the small windows. Some Guy looks like he was testing the same thing for the same reasons so I'm gonna see if I can find his tests later tonight. But it sounds like eagle claw, despite it's long animation and low dps is still a net positive in the rotation. Just trying to find extra slots if the math maths!

[SomeGuy]

I personally put the ATO2 in EC to get the chance to crit as high as I could with CaK and SK. It's worked....very well. The chain I use is:

 

EC - SK - CaK - Snipe - EC - SK - CaK - SK

 

Since EC has a long base recharge the ATO2 goes off pretty often. Combined with EC's natively higher crit % and how it boost the crit chance of the next two martial arts attacks in my chain, it has really great results. 

 

I'd give it a go and see if you like it. EC does have a long animation time. Luckily, I like the animation and it feels pretty good. This also pairs really well with EC - SK - Dragon's Tail to get good AOE out of things.

 

What @Uun shared actually really does put a spotlight on why I went this route.  I speculated the boost from EC would pay off for my playstyle...and it does. A lot. MA goes back and forth taking the top spot for my best melee DPS spot. I definitely prioritize SK and CK in my rotation since they have a higher crit chance then Snipe. So, if I exemp down low enough I don't keep the Snipe? I'm not exactly butt hurt. 

[autoriot]

Alright so in theory, paper calcutions which I could have made a mistake, I'm getting between 220.8 and 223.6 for the different ST chains with 135% boost from enhancements with masculature and crit probability. So a 1.25% difference which could easily be an error.

 

With build up, guassians and DT in the opening rotation, I'm at 284.8 to 295.7 so a 3.7% difference, again almost too small the math could be wrong. With build up SK > CaK > SK > DT/CS fits if guassians procs, and SK > CaK > SK before build up wears off taking the slight edge. But I calculate a 25.061% chance of 6 slot SK proc'ing a 50% Crit chance on top of the base 16%/21%  =(1.16*attack)+(attack*0.5*0.25061). SK would require +250% recharge to attack every other attack and recharge in 1.714s fast enough to be ready after DT. 

 

Eagle's Claw to SK I calculate =(1.21*attack)+(attack*0.8107*0.83). Which now that I write it out, the 33% should be added to the base crit chance so (1.54*attack)+(attack*0.8107*0.50) if the only recharge is the proc itself giving EC a 81.07% chance to proc a 50% crit strike with 23.19% slotted recharge using boppers proc calculator. Which brings up the build up opener to 289.5 dps and 224.4 for ST rotation.

 

Idk on paper it's so close it's inconclusive for me so I guess I really will have to sink a couple hours on beta.. While leveling my newest MA alt tho without max recharge SK seems to proc often enough, although chaotic.

[PyroBeetle]

I have some 50 vet levels on my MA/SR scrapper. From experience I will tell you that Eaglea Claw is a vital part of my AoE and ST damage. For AOE I chain EC, DT and CAK, with the critical strikes proc (which in my build goes off 86 percent of the time) and the extra critical chance from EC, my DT critical on 83% of the enemies it hits, which with buildup and assault hybrid is usually enough to kill all the minions in range, the second time all the lieutenants. For ST I use EC, Storm Kick, CAK, Storm Kick with Snipe mixed in as it is available (normally replaces first Storm Kick after EC every other cycle) I have played with other chains, but nine of them do the damage of this one.