Hindering: A way to make Control less Binary without weakening Control

[Steampunkette]

So this was an idea my husband and I had years ago, specifically to make it so that Control characters are more useful against EBs/AVs from the control side of things.

 

1) Every NPC gets a "Hinder Level" tied to their various powers.

 

2) If the NPC is under a specific control magnitude equal to a power's "Hinder Level" they cannot use that power. Even if they're not locked down.

 

Tadah. That's it. That's the entire idea.

 

We can see something similar going on with Blackwing Industries, where if their HP is above 75% they don't have access to specific powers they would otherwise have available.

 

This way, even if the Purple Triangles of Doom are up on an AV, the Controller or Dominator in the group is still having an effect. Perhaps a somewhat invisible effect, sure. But a direct mechanical benefit even if the AV is uncontrolled or uncontrollable. Same thing for Giant Monsters and stuff, too.

 

They still get their binary lockdown, too, obviously, once the stacks are high enough... Just also get to deny baddies access to their big powers when they're not locked down, too.

 

The easiest way I can think to implement it, is have an invisible Hinder "Power" added to all NPCs. If they get control stacks above X value, powers with a recharge time above 8s are locked out. If it's above Y stacks powers with a recharge time over 6s are locked out. And if they're above Z stacks, powers with a recharge time above 4s are locked out.

 

And then define X, Y, and Z by the rank of the enemy. This also means the Purple Patch affects this setup, since your controls aren't as effective against NPCs of higher levels than you.

[LightMaster]

16 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

So this was an idea my husband and I had years ago, specifically to make it so that Control characters are more useful against EBs/AVs from the control side of things.

 

1) Every NPC gets a "Hinder Level" tied to their various powers.

 

2) If the NPC is under a specific control magnitude equal to a power's "Hinder Level" they cannot use that power. Even if they're not locked down.

 

Tadah. That's it. That's the entire idea.

 

We can see something similar going on with Blackwing Industries, where if their HP is above 75% they don't have access to specific powers they would otherwise have available.

 

This way, even if the Purple Triangles of Doom are up on an AV, the Controller or Dominator in the group is still having an effect. Perhaps a somewhat invisible effect, sure. But a direct mechanical benefit even if the AV is uncontrolled or uncontrollable. Same thing for Giant Monsters and stuff, too.

 

They still get their binary lockdown, too, obviously, once the stacks are high enough... Just also get to deny baddies access to their big powers when they're not locked down, too.

 

The easiest way I can think to implement it, is have an invisible Hinder "Power" added to all NPCs. If they get control stacks above X value, powers with a recharge time above 8s are locked out. If it's above Y stacks powers with a recharge time over 6s are locked out. And if they're above Z stacks, powers with a recharge time above 4s are locked out.

 

And then define X, Y, and Z by the rank of the enemy. This also means the Purple Patch affects this setup, since your controls aren't as effective against NPCs of higher levels than you.

While implementation might be easy, it might end up giving Dominator another edge to use over Controller due to two factors that already makes the Dominator more useful on an organized team than a Controller:

1. Much higher DPS vs Controller: Dominator having higher damage scalar and Assault secondary already gives it an edge over the Controller, as it allows the Dominator to signficantly contribute vs AVs / GMs by simply pelting solid ST DPS. A Dominator is no Scrapper, Stalker, Corruptor nor Blaster, but it’s still in a better position vs Controller who has low DPS with nowhere as good buffs / debuffs as the Defender to compensate and relies on damage proc enhancements to catch up.
2. Perma-Dom proving more consistent vs Overpower: Wheras Overpower relies on chance thusly not a consistent strategy, Domination can be activated at will, grants Dominator resistance to Mezzing statuses, and restore 100% of the Dominator’s Endurance. Adding the fact that Perma-Dom is possible, especially with Haste, and it’s significantly easier for the Dominator to mez the foes than the Controller in most scenarios.

Unless Controller’s Overpower also temporarily reduce the “Hinder” requirement for AVs / GMs (i.e. less magnitude / hits required), I can only see it as “reason to play Dominator #X” than a beneficiant mechanic for both.

[MTeague]

If player powers also get a Hinder level, susceptible to NPC's controls, I'm OK with that. 

Powers like "Clear Mind", etc, should boost the Hinder level, meaning higher control magnitude would be required to affect the target (PC or NPC)

[RadiantPhoenix]

2 hours ago, Steampunkette said:

So this was an idea my husband and I had years ago, specifically to make it so that Control characters are more useful against EBs/AVs from the control side of things.

 

1) Every NPC gets a "Hinder Level" tied to their various powers.

 

2) If the NPC is under a specific control magnitude equal to a power's "Hinder Level" they cannot use that power. Even if they're not locked down.

 

Tadah. That's it. That's the entire idea.

 

We can see something similar going on with Blackwing Industries, where if their HP is above 75% they don't have access to specific powers they would otherwise have available.

 

This way, even if the Purple Triangles of Doom are up on an AV, the Controller or Dominator in the group is still having an effect. Perhaps a somewhat invisible effect, sure. But a direct mechanical benefit even if the AV is uncontrolled or uncontrollable. Same thing for Giant Monsters and stuff, too.

 

They still get their binary lockdown, too, obviously, once the stacks are high enough... Just also get to deny baddies access to their big powers when they're not locked down, too.

 

The easiest way I can think to implement it, is have an invisible Hinder "Power" added to all NPCs. If they get control stacks above X value, powers with a recharge time above 8s are locked out. If it's above Y stacks powers with a recharge time over 6s are locked out. And if they're above Z stacks, powers with a recharge time above 4s are locked out.

 

And then define X, Y, and Z by the rank of the enemy. This also means the Purple Patch affects this setup, since your controls aren't as effective against NPCs of higher levels than you.

This sounds similar to the idea of "interrupt" mechanics from other MMOs.

The way those work is:

• Some raid bosses will use attack that take a long time to cast, and some of those can be interrupted.
• Many or all players have a specific ability that interrupts attacks.
• When the raid boss starts casting its big scary attack, somebody has to interrupt it or else bad stuff happens.

Looking at your idea, it seems like:

• There is a new mez condition called "Hindered", that does nothing on its own.
• Hindered is also not on the Purple Triangle list.
• Some important enemies (and maybe players too) have a big, scary power that cannot be cast while "Hindered".
• Controllers and Dominators get Mag 3 "Hinder" attached to some of their mez powers (unaffected by Overpower/Dominate).
• Other ATs that get Con/Dom powers from Epics (or smth) also get "Hinder" attached to those powers.

Is that accurate?

[Steampunkette]

2 hours ago, LightMaster said:

While implementation might be easy, it might end up giving Dominator another edge to use over Controller due to two factors that already makes the Dominator more useful on an organized team than a Controller:

1. Much higher DPS vs Controller: Dominator having higher damage scalar and Assault secondary already gives it an edge over the Controller, as it allows the Dominator to signficantly contribute vs AVs / GMs by simply pelting solid ST DPS. A Dominator is no Scrapper, Stalker, Corruptor nor Blaster, but it’s still in a better position vs Controller who has low DPS with nowhere as good buffs / debuffs as the Defender to compensate and relies on damage proc enhancements to catch up.
2. Perma-Dom proving more consistent vs Overpower: Wheras Overpower relies on chance thusly not a consistent strategy, Domination can be activated at will, grants Dominator resistance to Mezzing statuses, and restore 100% of the Dominator’s Endurance. Adding the fact that Perma-Dom is possible, especially with Haste, and it’s significantly easier for the Dominator to mez the foes than the Controller in most scenarios.

Unless Controller’s Overpower also temporarily reduce the “Hinder” requirement for AVs / GMs (i.e. less magnitude / hits required), I can only see it as “reason to play Dominator #X” than a beneficiant mechanic for both.

It is a potential problem.

 

I do like the Overpower suggestion, though. Something like that could be built in to make Controllers catch up in overall efficacy.

 

1 hour ago, MTeague said:

If player powers also get a Hinder level, susceptible to NPC's controls, I'm OK with that. 

Powers like "Clear Mind", etc, should boost the Hinder level, meaning higher control magnitude would be required to affect the target (PC or NPC)

Could be pretty cool... but.

 

Would mostly result in players complaining they're being locked out of their "Best Powers". I think this'd need to be one-sided for it to be fun, rather than punishing.

[Steampunkette]

4 minutes ago, RadiantPhoenix said:

This sounds similar to the idea of "interrupt" mechanics from other MMOs.

The way those work is:

• Some raid bosses will use attack that take a long time to cast, and some of those can be interrupted.
• Many or all players have a specific ability that interrupts attacks.
• When the raid boss starts casting its big scary attack, somebody has to interrupt it or else bad stuff happens.

Looking at your idea, it seems like:

• There is a new mez condition called "Hindered", that does nothing on its own.
• Hindered is also not on the Purple Triangle list.
• Some important enemies (and maybe players too) have a big, scary power that cannot be cast while "Hindered".
• Controllers and Dominators get Mag 3 "Hinder" attached to some of their mez powers (unaffected by Overpower/Dominate).
• Other ATs that get Con/Dom powers from Epics (or smth) also get "Hinder" attached to those powers.

Is that accurate?

No, not really.

 

1) Not an interrupt.

2) No "Mez Condition"

 

Think of it like a Stack Tracker for Assassin's Strike or Street Justice. Only it's how many magnitudes/scales of each type of control are you under, right now.

 

If that number is over X, you lose access to One With the Shield. If it's over Y you can't use Crushing Uppercut. If it's past Z you can't cast Hasten.

 

They "Grey Out" on your bar as if you were exemplared.

 

It's like that, but applied to NPCs rather than players.

[ZeeHero]

18 minutes ago, RadiantPhoenix said:

This sounds similar to the idea of "interrupt" mechanics from other MMOs.

The way those work is:

• Some raid bosses will use attack that take a long time to cast, and some of those can be interrupted.
• Many or all players have a specific ability that interrupts attacks.
• When the raid boss starts casting its big scary attack, somebody has to interrupt it or else bad stuff happens.

Looking at your idea, it seems like:

• There is a new mez condition called "Hindered", that does nothing on its own.
• Hindered is also not on the Purple Triangle list.
• Some important enemies (and maybe players too) have a big, scary power that cannot be cast while "Hindered".
• Controllers and Dominators get Mag 3 "Hinder" attached to some of their mez powers (unaffected by Overpower/Dominate).
• Other ATs that get Con/Dom powers from Epics (or smth) also get "Hinder" attached to those powers.

Is that accurate?

I like this version of the idea.