build advice Build Needs for Toons with Pets and Pseudopets

[Jacke]

The first thing any Toon that depended on Pets or Pseudopets (example all Masterminds, Traps Toons (8 out of 9 Powers, all but Web Grenade), etc.) needs to do is get their Pets final ToHit close to 95%.

 

The vast majority of Pets do not benefit from the Global Buffs that the Caster has.  No Level Shifts (except from the MM Inherent Supremacy), no Global ToHit, no Global Accuracy.  Some Pets (like Trip Mine for all ATs) don't even get benefit from the Leadership Auras (there are flags that exclude those buffs).  Only Pets who are considered an extension of the Toon benefit from the Global Buffs.

 

The example I use to point this out, especially in CoD2, are 2 Pets on a Electrical Affinity/Electrical Blast Defender:

• Electrical Blast's T8 Voltaic Sentinel is an extension of the Toon and does benefit from the Caster's Global Buffs.
  https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=defender_ranged.electrical_blast.voltaic_sentinel&at=defender
  • Note the Double Green Box on the right side of the Create Entity Effect, "Boosts are copied to entity".
    • That means the slotted Enhancements are copied (with some restrictions shown elsewhere) to the entity, the Pet.
    • Elsewhere this is called "Use Combat Mods".
  • Note the Double Red Box on the right side of the Create Entity Effect, "Entity has creator's modifiers".
    • That means the Caster's Global Buffs are copied (with some restrictions shown elsewhere) to the entity, the Pet.
    • Elsewhere this is called "Use Caster Mods".
  • Note that the Effects of the Pets are all listed immediately here.
  • Note that in game, the Pet cannot be targeted.
  • Any aggro the Pet gets is immediately passed to the Caster.
• Electrical Affinity's T3 Galvanic Sentinel is like the vast majority of Pets and Pseudopets and doesn't benefit from Caster's Global Buffs.
  https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=defender_buff.shock_therapy.discharge&at=defender
  • Note there's only a Double Green Box on the right side of the Create Entity Effects, "Boosts are copied to entity".
    • That means the slotted Enhancements are copied (with some restrictions shown elsewhere) to the entity, the Pet.
  • Note that there's a link to a separate Entity page for the created Pet.
    • Where you see a lot of information and links to the Pet's Powers.
  • Note that in game, the Pet can be targets usually (not all Pseudopets of this type can be targeted).
  • This type of Pet includes all Mastermind Henchmen.

 

As well, there is a large and effectively unfixable bug in Mids Reborn: It doesn't recognise this difference and always gives Pets the benefit of the Caster's Global Buffs.  You cannot depend on MRB's calculations of the final ToHit chance of the vast majority of Pets and Pseudopets.

 

To avoid calculating every case of the vast majority of Pets, I have 2 rules I use to get the Pet's final ToHit close to 95% in content the Casting Toon may see as +3 (+4 with the Toon +1 due to an Incarnate T3 or T4 Alpha Boost slotted--which the Pet sees as +4 all the time):

1. Slot the Pet Casting Power with ED-capped Accuracy (~93%+).
2. If the Pets has important Attack Powers that aren't autohit and have a Base Accuracy of under 1.2, do one or both of the following:
   • Have the Caster take Leadership's Tactics, even just the base Slot on a Mastermind.
   • Have a -Def Power applied to the potential targets.

 

Two examples of Pets who's Attack Powers have 1.2 Base Accuracy:

• Devices' Gun Drone
• Fire Control's Imps

 

Most Pet IO sets do not have enough Accuracy, requiring mixed slotting of different IO sets to get there.  This has to be done for ALL Pet and Pseudopet Summons Powers of the second type from above.  Some Pet Toons won't have a -Def Power, so in that case they'll often need Tactics.

 

Mastermind Henchmen have other Level reductions from that of the Mastermind that complicates this.  Mastermind Supremacy Inherent Power can offset this, but Henchmen need to remain close enough to the MM.  I have heard that this won't be changed until other changes go in.

 

 

[Maelwys]

12 hours ago, Jacke said:

• Note the Double Green Box on the right side of the Create Entity Effect, "Boosts are copied to entity".
• That means the slotted Enhancements are copied (with some restrictions shown elsewhere) to the entity, the Pet.

 

"Boosts are copied to entity" duplicates all buffs that are currently affecting the caster, including slotted enhancements, inspirations, long-duration clicks (such as forge and Fulcrum Shift) and the current tick of any short-duration recurrent effects (like passives/toggles and set bonuses)

 

In practice this means that any pseudopet abilities which possess effects that kick in immediately upon summoning (such as Arsenal Control Sleep and Smoke Grenades) will have those initial effects boosted by the caster's Global Accuracy. But then after a few seconds those short duration buffs expire, so any subsequent effects (such as the aforementioned Arsenal Control powers' lingering patches) will no longer get boosted by them.

 

Note also that this can be overridden by another flag "ignores enhancements and other boosts" (which looks like a padlock symbol in CoDv2). Pets that have both flags don't gain any benefit from the caster's own buffs, only from enhancements slotted into the pet ability itself.

 

 

Quote

• Note the Double Red Box on the right side of the Create Entity Effect, "Entity has creator's modifiers".
• That means the Caster's Global Buffs are copied (with some restrictions shown elsewhere) to the entity, the Pet.
• Elsewhere this is called "Use Caster Mods". 

 

AFAIK "Entity has creator's modifiers" relates to inheriting the caster's scalars and caps. It's typically used on pseudopet powers like "Burn" where having the power respect the higher Blaster 500% and Brute 700% damage caps (for example) make sense. 

[Jacke]

The interpretations as I mentioned above were confirmed to me.

 

 

27 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

"Boosts are copied to entity" duplicates all buffs that are currently affecting the caster, including slotted enhancements, inspirations, long-duration clicks (such as forge and Fulcrum Shift) and the current tick of any short-duration recurrent effects (like passives/toggles and set bonuses)

 

In practice this means that any pseudopet abilities which possess effects that kick in immediately upon summoning (such as Arsenal Control Sleep and Smoke Grenades) will have those initial effects boosted by the caster's Global Accuracy. But then after a few seconds those short duration buffs expire, so any subsequent effects (such as the aforementioned Arsenal Control powers' lingering patches) will no longer get boosted by them.

 

Note also that this can be overridden by another flag "ignores enhancements and other boosts" (which looks like a padlock symbol in CoDv2). Pets that have both flags don't gain any benefit from the caster's own buffs, only from enhancements slotted into the pet ability itself.

 

Not sure of the above.  Inspirations and Global effects from Clicks are in Global Buffs and if they were included, others would be.

 

But these are testable with appropriate use of Combat Attributes window.

 

 

27 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

AFAIK "Entity has creator's modifiers" relates to inheriting the caster's scalars and caps. It's typically used on pseudopet powers like "Burn" where having the power respect the higher Blaster 500% and Brute 700% damage caps (for example) make sense. 

 

That also includes the Caster's Global Buffs.

 

If we had EXACTLY the same view as what the Powers Devs use (and some documentation as well), this would be much simpler...maybe.  But we don't, alas.

 

CoD2 is better than nothing.  But it's also got nil documentation and a steep learning curve.

 

 

[Maelwys]

30 minutes ago, Jacke said:

Not sure of the above.  Inspirations and Global effects from Clicks are in Global Buffs and if they were included, others would be.

 

Last time I bothered testing inspirations specifically was during the Epic pool Bonfire nerfs, but back then at least they were definitely having an impact.

 

Global Set bonuses like Accuracy however I've tested a fair bit and posted about before (even if it looks like the second set of screenshots in the below example has been lost to the forum storage gremlins!)

 

 

[Jacke]

@Maelwys, the key takeaway here is getting that ED-capped Accuracy into Pet Summons Powers.  I think like out of all the Pet and Recharge Intensive Pet IO sets, only 3 ED-cap Accuracy just by themselves:

• Brilliant Leadership (barely)
• Blood Mandate
• Sovereign Right

I've been making up mixed sets for Toons with Pets as I do new builds (so far behind in builds...).

 

After that, if needed (don't need to on the first one I fixed, my AR/Dev Blaster's Gun Drone), add in either Tactics or the use of a -Def Power.

 

Only some Pets (I think they're all NOT targetable) are considered extensions of the Toon and thus get the benefit of the Global Enhancements, including Level Shifts (outside of what MM Supremacy grants to the MM's Henchmen).

 

 

Edited Friday at 11:38 AM by Jacke

[Maelwys]

57 minutes ago, Jacke said:

@Maelwys, the key takeaway here is getting that ED-capped Accuracy into Pet Summons Powers. 

Agreed.

I think it would also be worth bumping up the base ToHit of all pet summons a bit; to be honest. Especially the ones that spawn at -1/-2 to you (like Fire Imps; VEAT Spiderlings and T1/T2 Mastermind Henchmen); as the Purple patch is already hitting their damage and debuff effectiveness very hard.

Whilst it's possible to work around the accuracy issues on most "real" pets... last I checked even MM Supremacy plus ED-Capped Accuracy isn't enough in a -2 henchmen to allow it to attain a Capped Hit Chance vs mobs that are +3 to your own toon (they'd need to have +135% Accuracy aspect in them; which isn't feasible unless you're rocking a Nerve or Vigor Alpha Slot in addition to heavily slotting up their local Accuracy). So you really have to use Tactics and/or the Soulbound Allegiance +BuildUp Proc. And any pets that can't be affected by allied +ToHit buffs (e.g. untargetable Pseudopets, and Phantom Army) are only really left with the Soulbound Proc as a viable option.

 

Edited Friday at 12:34 PM by Maelwys

[Jacke]

1 hour ago, Maelwys said:

I think it would also be worth bumping up the base ToHit of all pet summons a bit; to be honest. Especially the ones that spawn at -1/-2 to you (like Fire Imps; VEAT Spiderlings and T1/T2 Mastermind Henchmen); as the Purple patch is already hitting their damage and debuff effectiveness very hard.

 

Fire Imp's only attack (Brawl) has 1.2 Base Accuracy.
https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pets.imp.brawl&at=minion_controllerpets

 

For 1.2 Base Accuracy and slotting ED-capped Accuracy, against +4 Targets (as they are +4 to Pets), final ToHit is about 92%.  -Def and Tactics would help, but only a tiny amount.

And except for those Pets that are just extensions of the Toon (Electrical Blast's Voltaic Sentinel, etc.), it's the Base Accuracy of the Pet attacks, which are independent AFAIK of the Base Accuracy of the Pet Summons Power (which doesn't use it AFAIK).

 

 

1 hour ago, Maelwys said:

Whilst it's possible to work around the accuracy issues on most "real" pets... last I checked even MM Supremacy plus ED-Capped Accuracy isn't enough in a -2 henchmen to allow it to attain a Capped Hit Chance vs mobs that are +3 to your own toon (they'd need to have +135% Accuracy aspect in them; which isn't feasible unless you're rocking a Nerve or Vigor Alpha Slot in addition to heavily slotting up their local Accuracy). So you really have to use Tactics and/or the Soulbound Allegiance +BuildUp Proc. And any pets that can't be affected by allied +ToHit buffs (e.g. untargetable Pseudopets, and Phantom Army) are only really left with the Soulbound Proc as a viable option.

 

There's details to this I don't know, but there's other changes to the game that need to go in before the Level reductions of MM Henchmen gets remove.

 

Until then, Masterminds really need to take Leadership and Tactics, unless their support set has a very good -Def Power (like Radiation Emission).  Soulbound Allegiance Proc would only help intermittently and that's effective a lower final ToHit chance.

 

Don't know about the untargetable Pseudopets.  Some of them may be independent, others may be Toon extensions.  But all should benefit from Debuffs like -Def.  I know Phantom Army does.  Good thing as EVERY attack they have is Base Accuracy 1.0.  Can't find where in CoD2 is the "Ignores external strength boosts" for PA, but I know they have it.  As does Trip Mine.

 

 

Edited Friday at 01:38 PM by Jacke

[Maelwys]

21 minutes ago, Jacke said:

Can't find where in CoD2 is the "Ignores external strength boosts" for PA, but I know they have it.  As does Trip Mine.

AFAIK in Phantom Army that's the fault of the aforementioned "Ignores enhancements and other buffs" flag - the Padlock Symbol next to the pet entity creation in CoDv2. That flag is present on most "real pet" summons that possess any damaging attacks - and it stops you doing fun stuff potential exploits such as using Fulcrum Shift on yourself immediately before summoning them. Although they're still affected by certain things; like the Soulbound Proc and some Incarnate abilities which function as "self buffs" rather than "allied buffs" (the most noticable one in this case being Assault Hybrid as long as you activate it before summoning them...)

However Trip Mine is different - my understanding is that "explosion" pseudopet powers (the ones that that create an entity that immediately "self destructs") don't benefit from external effects other than enhancements; because there's not enough time for those effects to begin to apply to the entity before that entity triggers its single damage-dealing ability and then immediately expires. That (rather infamously!) means that they gain absolutely no benefit whatsoever from damage procs... but buff procs like Force Feedback still function in them OK since they kick in on cast; not on power effect triggering.
 

Edited Friday at 01:59 PM by Maelwys

[Jacke]

Trip Mine also has the tag (in the upper left of the linked page) "Strengths Disallowed: RechargeTime".

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pets.mine.trip_mine&at=minion_pets

 

Don't know if that means the Force Feedback Proc has no effect.

 

 

Edited Friday at 02:02 PM by Jacke

[Maelwys]

22 minutes ago, Jacke said:

Trip Mine also has the tag (in the upper left of the linked page) "Strengths Disallowed: RechargeTime".

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pets.mine.trip_mine&at=minion_pets

 

Don't know if that means the Force Feedback Proc has no effect.

I believe that's the same tag all pet subpowers get, which stops Recharge Time Reductions affecting them.
See other examples here and here.

In days of Yore; you could slot a FF proc into the Robotics Assault Bot and as soon as they fired their Swarm Missiles off it'd trigger a FF Proc on them and they'd get a +100% Recharge buff; then merrily start spamming long-recharge-time attacks. It was glorious bugged as hell. The devs eventually figured out that allowing pets to be affected by recharge buffs tended to completely break their attack chain cycles; and stopped them being affected by any recharge alterations. As a silver lining though, Robotic Masterminds can now cheerfully farm enemies that have Psychic or Cold attacks (as Pets have become completely immune to any form of recharge changes, including debuffs!)

The FF Proc will almost always kick in on the caster of Trip Mine though. So some habitual Toebombers can nearly get a bit of useful mileage out of it... 😛

 

Edited Friday at 02:25 PM by Maelwys