barrier

You know you can slot stealth IOs into those, right? And that's it, and that was by design. Stating that "it was by design" doesn't take away from the fact that your original statement assumed that no enhancements would be allowed in the prestige sprints or preclude a critique of the design. Sprints that you erroneously call "passives" when they really aren't "passives" by definition (gotta turn them on!)

You know you can slot stealth IOs into those, right?

Do you seriously have a PVE build with 5 KB ios in it? Serious question. Edit: As noted above, KB in PVE is pretty much irrelevant. Everyone slots against it. Nobody experiences it.

Okay man, I'm going to tell you over and over here: KB is not an element on players in the game. Literally everyone has 1-2 kb ios or acro or hover. Literally everyone. If it is anything, it is a tribute to Castle's moronic stance on status effects (look at his take on holds, slows and stuns in PVP, the man was an idiot). Plain tribute. You can play without kb protection, sure; but it is not dissimilar from playing a petless mastermind. Are you seriously going to argue that KB is an actual element of the game when most builds have (minor) elements tailored to nullify the element from the game?

Because that is a major ask. And this is not. Come the FFFFF on.

No. BF doesn't do anything in PvP. You can pop 4+ breakfrees whilst being held like that and it won't do anything. And unless you're an OP Warshade, there are no 10 second mez's in PVP. Revise and resubmit.

So much wrong in this post. So much wrong. I spent the first month of the game being up power-pushing people around RV on an energy/emp corr and watching them die before they hit the ground. I don't bring it out that much anymore because most people have enough kb protection to resist a power push. Those are not "vulnerable/weak ATs". That generalization is just plain... wrong. They are disruption slots in a team. Also, asking for a player-based rule-set in the arena is just admitting that there is a flaw in the game's design. Yeah so I doubt you were killing Ice/Plant blasters and such on it. You said it yourself, it's a +1. You KB'd someone into next week while someone else bursted. But there's other ways to lock someone down and have a DPS burst them. You can go the sapper route for example, or just use domination holds. I don't see why kb is especially a problem. If you think that KB'ing and insta-kills mid-kb animation lock are acceptable game mechanics, I don't know how to speak with you.

So much wrong in this post. So much wrong. I spent the first month of the game being up power-pushing people around RV on an energy/emp corr and watching them die before they hit the ground. I don't bring it out that much anymore because most people have enough kb protection to resist a power push. Those are not "vulnerable/weak ATs". That generalization is just plain... wrong. They are disruption slots in a team. Also, asking for a player-based rule-set in the arena is just admitting that there is a flaw in the game's design.

Then whatever solution you propose make it PVP-only. Not only not designed for PVE, but impossible to implement into PVE. Past nerfs driven by (or perceived to be driven by 'PVP balance' are rightly seen as a bad thing. Power Creep driven by 'PVP balance' should be seen in the same way. But there's really no significant PVE effect. That's what I'm pointing out here. You basically get nothing you couldn't get from either a base buff, a break free or (functionally speaking) a single slot allotted to a kb io.

Even if I was an insignificant outlier, it doesn't change the fact that KB protection will become irrelevant in this game, and you're removing complexity for PvE just for the sake of PvP. While calling it a QoL change. You have issues with KB in PvP? Ask for a PvP-only change, and don't trivialize changes to core mechanics of the game as some minor QoL change. How are you still arguing that kb is relevant mechanic when literally everyone builds protrction into their characters? I'm done arguing since you clearly just ignored my previous statements. Makes sense.. I mean, by your standards and taken to their maxima, we might as well just start deleting slots and remove the kb mechanic altogether... Because guess what: the game would then stay pretty much the same. So why the suggestion above? Viability. I want to see fire armor and ninjitsu, and more soft control in high end pvp matches. I dont want to say "reroll" over and over to kids with the ninjitsu stalker/sentinel mains just because they are expected to waste slots on kb protection all while sacrificing performance. And the performance sacrifices are real. You don't see these sets in PVP for a reason. It's not a "trade-off", it's more of a tribute.

Even if I was an insignificant outlier, it doesn't change the fact that KB protection will become irrelevant in this game, and you're removing complexity for PvE just for the sake of PvP. While calling it a QoL change. You have issues with KB in PvP? Ask for a PvP-only change, and don't trivialize changes to core mechanics of the game as some minor QoL change. How are you still arguing that kb is relevant mechanic when literally everyone builds protrction into their characters?

What in this change would trigger you to spend hours respec'ing your characters? Serious question. I have slots chosen for KB protection, powers chosen partially because of KB protection. On multiple level 50 characters. Respeccing takes time to choose the powers again, assign the slots again, and re-organize your whole trays. I'd also have to go through my entire build library (I have about 50 build files) to make the appropriate changes of adding all the KB IO's, removing extra slots/powers and replacing existing IO's. I'm not even going to deep into pointing out that you may in fact be more of an outlier than the median "PVPer" in this game. But let's just leave that aside. How much KB protection are you slotting into those toons to begin with? What power choices would be different? Be specific. That broad response is too broad. I'm not going to accuse you of being disingenuous, but don't be lazy. All it takes is one slot/power difference to respec an entire build. Any melee character without inherent KB protection has to take a filler travel power or an extra slot for 8 points of KB protection. Don't accuse me of being lazy if you can't understand this simple concept. That fact that you described a travel power as "filler" for kb protection makes my point. Doubly so when you term this a QOL change. Your whole argument right now boils down to "I don't like change". And given that you keep a 50+ build library, I'm pretty sure you're way more of an outlier than the median "PVPer" (though I won't even claim that the term "PVPer" is a thing given the fact that PVE is such a big part of this game).

What in this change would trigger you to spend hours respec'ing your characters? Serious question. I have slots chosen for KB protection, powers chosen partially because of KB protection. On multiple level 50 characters. Respeccing takes time to choose the powers again, assign the slots again, and re-organize your whole trays. I'd also have to go through my entire build library (I have about 50 build files) to make the appropriate changes of adding all the KB IO's, removing extra slots/powers and replacing existing IO's. I'm not even going to go deep into pointing out that you may in fact be more of an outlier than the median "PVPer" in this game. But let's just leave that aside. How much KB protection are you slotting into those toons to begin with? What power choices would be different? Be specific. That broad response is too broad. I'm not going to accuse you of being disingenuous, but don't be lazy.

What in this change would trigger you to spend hours respec'ing your characters? Serious question. Edit: I'm asking because I have a bunch of PVE-only toons without KB protection armors, I don't see myself changing much at all when it comes to how they're built.

That's a good suggestion pointing the right way. It wouldn't be a "set" though. That wouldn't solve any issues (we already have BOTZ's and they don't require more than a single IO to be slotted). A PVP-only global IO (single IO, not a set) that slots into the sprints would totally solve the issue. Doubly so if just made free, since it's a PVP-only thing.

* Force Bolt - mag 54, need mag 49 or so protection * Gale - mag 41, need mag 35 or so protection (interesting note: Gale works funny and will sometimes apply two packets of knockback, which means it'll cut through KB protection on just about any non-squishy) * Power Push (Defender/Dominator version) - mag 46, need 41 * Power Push (Blaster/Corruptor version) - mag 35, need 31 * Lift/Levitate - mag 35, need 31 (I literally have that on a saved note because everyone asks the same question).

The KB stat is irrelevant but making it irrelevant is onerous. That's the starting point for the suggestion. Everyone runs around with big amounts of protection, so if your concern is mechanical, then you might want to make some suggestions for addressing the binary nature of kb in game. "Everyone runs around with big amounts of protection" is wrong, only certain armor sets give high inherent KB protection The fact that you can pack multiple -KB IO's in your build (with either travel powers or slots in defense powers) is a choice, a choice the OP wants to take away for "quality of life". Oh man... It's not a "choice" - read the OP. 41-44kb prot is standard. It's as much of a choice as being a petless mastermind. You do understand that, right?

The KB stat is irrelevant but making it irrelevant is onerous. That's the starting point for the suggestion. Everyone runs around with big amounts of protection, so if your concern is mechanical, then you might want to make some suggestions for addressing the binary nature of kb in game.

There is no PVP mindset here. Every PVPer probably spends more time PVeing than PVPing so "mindset" arguments are just a way to bring tribalism into an argument. (Lol @ PVPers vs. PvEers). The fact is that the change would have minimal repercussions in PVE. I do a ton high-end content on AOE (PVE) builds and I do it with 1 kb io if one at all and no acro. I also put a celerity stealth into sprint to make stealthing content easier. My PVE builds won't change much. I'd basically be getting 1 extra slot. That's a de minimis effect. I don't know how you could argue otherwise.

Lucious hates my guts, so take his comments with a grain of salt. The notion that you must "take something back" when providing a general buff is kind of naive. What matters here is viability and QOL. Regarding viability: Does this change broaden the potential number of power sets viable in a PVP setting? I think you'd be hard-pressed to argue that it does not. It's not only fire and ninjitsu, it's controllers and dominators that can't rely on slotted control effects because there are not enough slots to play the damage race game and also deal with kb reqs. If you're going to argue against that point: I've seen three controllers in kickball. Three. Something is clearly broken when you only two of them were playing disruption and the other was an emp. Doms? Probably 1 per 12 blasters and 1 per 4 emps. Those ATs gain the most from the extra slots. They are so underrepresented that any buff, however broad, that unevenly favors them, is a good change. If you're going to argue QOL: just look at every time I've explained KB mags in the PVP discord. A new player shouldnt have to go from mag 4 kb resistance for most pve content to a x10+ increase just to partake in PVP. It makes no sense, and it's a by-product of a binary system with no skill-based counters (aside from ths kinda "try to fall on slopey slots outside of LOS") . If you're going to argue that this makes it too easy, you might as well argue away the /ah command and breakfrees, then base buffs too. Or all inspirations for that matter. There are half a dozen ways to counter KB in PVE, and none involve instanty dying on non-repeatable content because you didn't slot for 44 kb protection on your fire tank.

Hey man, like... Did you oppose the stamina changes too? Serious question.

The reason it's a QOL request is that every single novice that steps into the world of pvp is shocked to learn that they need mag 41 kb protection just to avoid becoming a farm target in an arena match. Like, I can keep making my builds work and avoiding sets that don't perform well because of the build sacrifices associated with that kb protection requirement, but it does suck to tell a newbie that his ninjitsu stalker is going to have a hard time getting as much of a +dmg bonus as an EA stalker and that they should consider re-rolling or that his fire brute won't make an adequate disruption toon because it won't be able to get enough +hp given how much kb needs to be built into the toon just to get up to spec. That feels like QOL. PVPers have already figured the system out; this simply makes the system more accessible to more builds. Hence, I call that a QOL change.

5 kb ios x 4 million inf = 20 million. That's literally an investment. (And FYI, that price was 15 mill on live). Third edit: and the real reason was that kb ios aren't unique and you'd basically be paying cash on live to get kb protection. This isn't live.

So, I'm generally pretty conservative when it comes to proposing changes in this game, so keep that in mind as I make this request. Back on live, it made a lot of sense to only allow for certain things to be slotted into the Prestige Sprints. Not everyone had access to them, and allowing for things like KB IO's to be slotted would have effectively created a required loot box that PVPers would have had no option but to buy. That's not the case anymore. Everyone has access to those sprints through the Pay to Win vendor. PVP has suffered from the binary nature of KB attacks since i12 or so when the developers nerfed acro and removed KB resistance from it (Mag 9 protection only). PVPers reacted by building these monstrosities with 41-44kb resistance built-in through the use of -KB IO's. The introduction of universal travel sets and PVP IO sets with knockback protection somewhat helped, but as it stands right now, everyone effectively builds for knockback protection. Literally everyone. In the past couple of weeks, I've been messing with a few builds on Pine's. They're pretty unusual pairings; things that used to work before i13, but now are pretty hard to build. Specifically, two dominator builds - I could not make them work. I could not get to a respectable amount of +hp with decent recharge while also having the required mag 41 kb protection without effectively limiting myself to 3 attacks (one of them a primary hold). I'm sure that I'm not alone here. Try building a ninjistsu sentinel or stalker and then an EA or regen toon and you'll find yourself in the same hole. Compare any character with fire armor to the current meta armor sets and you'll find yourself in the same hole again. As it stands right now, KB protection requirements are limiting diversity. Nobody is playing without enough KB protection; we just aren't playing sets that have to make huge sacrifice to achieve the required KB mag protection. How can the Homecoming Team fix this? Allow for Universal Travel IO's to be slotted into sprints. It essentially means that you'd be starting off with 20 kb protection (4 sprints + standard sprint) and would only really have to add in an extra mag 21 kb protection to your build to make it viable. That may sound like a lot (acro + 3 x -4 kb IOs), but that's 4 slots that you are now free to build into your character. While it does help ALL characters, it helps close the gap between sets that don't provide KB protection and those that do. It's a general buff with disparate effects (the best kind of buff!). It would be a huge QOL upgrade for PVPers. Having to build for mag 41-44 kb is kind of ridiculous. Once every couple of days, the question pops up on the PVP discord, and it's such a ridiculous thing to state that most newbies do a double take (and some even PM asking if they're being trolled). Would the Homecoming team be open to such a change? I know you guys have been able to figure out that part of the game, given the fixes that allowed for slow IO's to be slotted into powers that weren't allowing that.

I dare any of these people to come up with an example other than Hurricane early in like i4. Travel suppression. Regen. GDN. Diversification. There's a few. Source your travel suppression comment. If it had anything to do with PVP, it would have been removed after i13. Remember Regins in Hamidon? Yeah. Not a PVP thing. In fact, Instant Healing as a toggle with the old mez system probably was worse than when it became a click. So.. GDN? Source please. Because if it was a PVP Nerf, then it would have been reverted after DR in i13. Diversification had nothing to do with PVP. You're making things up.