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This will be my 3rd Tank in about 10 days. I did SR/DM which is OK, when SR doesn't fail. I am almost 50 on a SD/SM, and I have to say I am enjoying it! Stone Melee seems to help Shield Defense survive more than it would otherwise, because of all the soft control SM's knockup/down provide. So I want to make an Invuln Tank next. I originally thought to pair it with Dark Melee, but I have a lot of DM toons already (least of all that recent SR/DM tank from last week). So I thought Kinetic Melee. That lasted until level 10, when I realized KM is not a good pairing for invuln. Maybe not for anything, really. Too bad. I'm thinking Street Justice, as I have a StJ/EA stalker and LOVE that toon! One of my favorite melee characters. How is Street Justice on tanks? I do realize all the melee are better on stalkers, especially since the fast-cast assassin strike being a nice chain filler. Melee attack sets played (either tank, scrapper, brute, stalker): War Mace, Energy Melee, Dark Melee, Stone Melee, Claws, Titan Weapons, Psi Melee, Staff, Street Justice. So I guess I should ask: What is NOT on that list above that would pair well with Invuln, or is one set just so good it's worth a repeat (e.g. Dark Melee, I'm thinking. Or spines?) Thank you in advance for your replies and insight!

Ah, I thought I was going crazy when my Shield Defense tank's True Grit was showing only a 1.55% HP gain with three healths slotted. Or Aid Self doing 3.1% heal with 5... Hopefully, it will all get figured out soon. Thank you for your efforts, guys!

Yeah, I meant to add that it would be for Auto powers and/or Toggles (if they are even treated differently when calculating). Maybe also add a "clickable heal" such as Reconstruction, Aid Self (assuming no interruption), etc. using mids' numbers (recharge, heal amount, etc).

I ran a WP/TW tank on another server, it sure felt AT LEAST as survivable as invuln, but without a click-heal (well, dull pain) there's no "oh crap" button. In fact, there's no clicking at all for WP, which pairs VERY WELL with Titan Weapons, as one wants to abuse the momentum bug(s). Anyway, here's the build I used (updated it with Power Transfer proc): I can stand in the monster wall solo (in the Hive), tanking herd-cap Giant Monsters. Debuffs are a weakness, as they are for most tanks, however. Also, Martial Arts is an excellent Tank secondary, because of the +10% Melee/Ranged/AoE defense provided by Storm Kick (tier 2). That plugs a lot of holes for many things.

Hey @Bopper, Is it possible to add Power Transfer proc and other procs/regen things to the spreadsheet? Including the maths used when multiple ones are used in toggle/always on powers?

I know it's asking a lot, but I sure wish @Bopper would add in something that would auto-calculate the Power Transfer proc(s), Impervious Skin (via checkbox?), etc. keeping in mind the unusual thing with PT-proc (and Performance Shifter, others?) that have their own declining chances when slotted in auto powers, etc. Maybe I'll post this on his spreadsheet's thread:

I was recently wondering how a Regen/Dark Melee would do, thinking of Hami raids (@Keen) I went a very different direction, chasing HP and Regen, and came up with this: But was wondering if I should dump the meaning of the set (health and regen) to try and get pre-incarnate S/L softcap... I don't see regeneration AT ALL for any AT, so was wondering if anyone has actually PLAYED regen into incarnate stuff, etc. and what their thoughts are on build strategy. The above build, once incarnated out (Vigor alpha, Melee Hybrid, Rebirth destiny) doesn't achieve great +rech, but it doesn't take perma-Hasten to perma Dull Pain, which is the big one. Instant Healing is what it is, etc. The only thing Mids does not take into consideration properly is the +Regen/+Heal procs, but those will be adding a decent amount. So sitting w/o using destiny or toggling hybrid: 827% regen, 207.43% hp, means (in mids): 107.1 hp/s (with the four hp/end accolades). Not bad, but I'm worried that the resists aren't enough: I don't mind keeping purples in the tray, etc. and I'm not tanking (if I do a hami, I drop assault and pick up taunt at 49). Fumbling through @Bopper's awesome survivability ca;d. I get this (have reconstruction ON because it's easy to keep that toxic resist up): I might need to boost the additional HPS line, as I have multiple PT procs, as well as Reconstruction... but for now, I left it low. Who Plays Regen?

Are you describing the Crab Spider Soldier's Omega Maneuver? That is far too slow to be anything but a curiosity in quick 8-man teams. The best use of them is when the player runs ahead (as most all players like to do) so they can use their powers and not see them unneeded because everyone is too tricked out. So, mechanically speaking (from limited knowledge), it seems the omega maneuver is the "reverse repel" that cheeses it with a pet who taunts (I believe).

Energy Melee can just be reverted to what it once was (near instant activation for the heavy hitters): done. As for Dark Melee (DM): very well put, it is awesome out of the gate, 1-2-3... then things take a turn. I think Soul Drain (the buildup) is fine as is, as it can be made "perma" (the buffs last 30s, three times longer than a normal buildup, but you need living mobs, etc). Dark Consumption was the logical choice to monkey with (and they did on the test server, and it was wonderful for about a week, then they reverted). A PBAoE click attack would be better where Dark Consumption is, something with normalized recharge/damage/etc. (modified for needing to hit something, maybe?). That's the easy pick; a more unusual thing would be a cone-immob attack or something. Dark is about a utility toolset, based on debuffing living mobs (for the most part). Continue in that vein: make a aoe power that's both a reasonable AoE and a useful debuff/cc or something.

To answer both of these (essentially) same questions, the build was just done on the fly as I just made the toon in response to this very thread. By the evening of the day (yesterday, about 6 hours later) I hit 50 with it and reformulated the build. Originally, I only had 1 slot in the auto defense powers (LotG globals) so Agile, Dodge, Lucky were not working as hard as they should have. So now, at level 50 (just unlocked alpha, no slotting), it looks like this: I did end up dropping Midnight Grasp and Dark Consumption, as they were not really adding anything and I'd much rather have a real heal for "just in case" situations. My current, and possibly final build, is this:

I have done several similar things in the updated build (see my reply above); however, the spirit ward vs. arcane bolt is a good idea! I think I'll add that. I wasn't sure if it was worth chasing the 10% LotG bonuses, if it is, I now have 2 spots (Agile and Lucky) to add them in (which would make regen 276%). I am trying to keep as close to 59% defense (pre-incarnate) for my positional.

That is a most excellent utility! However, I've re-tuned my build since I hit 50 tonight. I moved some slots around and added the regen procs (all three), as well as the +hp procs. Using your logic of spamming siphon every 11s, and aid every 23s (so it's apples-to-apples, the reality is, siphon is part of my attack chain and is the second-most damaging attack! So I hit it every 5s or so). I adjusted the additional HPS to 64.214 (56.3 + 3.229 for Pana-proc + 4.685 for PT-proc). Defenses and Resists changed, as well. Build as follows: So plugging in those numbers, I got:

That is an awesome thread / chart! Thank you! So if I am 2-slotting Health, currently using Miracle & Panacea (my go-to for +end), and I'm really not needing +end, I should change that to Panacea + Numina, since I likely won't hit that high of HP (SR has no +maxHP). I might even pull out the PerfShifter End and replace it with PT-proc & PerfShifter-proc in Stamina. However, do those numbers actually matter in real-world play? In my SR/DM tank that I'm currently working on, I have a planned build where I put a Regen proc in Tough (toggle), and a 3-slotted health with RegenTissue, Panacea, and Numina. Stamina will have PerfShifter-proc + PT-proc. Assuming I'll get the "big four" Accolades and with my current IO-slotting, I should have approx. 2410 HP (according to Mids). What kind of regen/health ticks would I realistically see (every 10s or so)?

I was thinking of the endurance proc, how often does it go off if put in stamina? On my test character (level 46, I believe) it did 92 hp. Even if I got that 3 times a minute, that's not worth a whole lot when I have (currently) about 2,000 hp.

That's unfortunate. I cannot imagine where this would ever be useful. At all.

Yeah, VERY cool. I really would not mind if DM got a "slightly broken" power (as it was), because the rest of the set is fairly "meh" and makes up for it. And don't get me started (or anyone started) on Energy Melee!

I recently made a SR/DM tank, and it's ok to play. However, as one would expect, DM lacks AoE. Shadow Maul is really good since the tanker changes, but the "other two" AoE's (which really aren't AoE's, but it's all DM has) are just "meh" and "useless" - that is, Soul Drain (meh) and Dark Consumption (useless). While I have Soul Drain currently 6-slotted with the Gauntlet ATO set, mostly for the enhancements (strong recharge, strong damage, great acc, ok end reduction) I'm mostly happy with it, the buffs will be perma by the time I incarnate, so it's got that going. Damage-wise, it's not bad, but for something up as often as a nuke (120s default recharge), the DPA is terribad. The worst power, and one I wish they would have stayed with when testing/tweaking on the beta early this year (2020) is Dark Consumption. Now, Dark Melee is NOT endurance intensive at all, neither is SR (really), so I am never concerned about endurance. Maybe on some other set it's a concern, but here, I only took it for another damage PBAoE to follow Soul Drain, and it's really unimpressive. On an even LONGER default recharge (180s), it does even LESS damage than soul drain. I can see why every build for anything DM skips it. So I was wondering if the new Chance for Heal proc in Power Transfer (end mod set) would make it a ghetto heal. NO. Not at all. Shittiest proc I've ever used. At level 44 I tested it in Dark Consumption. It fired off every time. But just ONE time for like 92 hp (which was the 5% stated in the proc description). No stacking at all. Ten mobs? 1 heal for 92. One mob? 1 heal for 92. Awesomesauce. So I am wondering: Is there ANY way to make Dark Consumption NOT a skippable power? What about the two STUN procs (end mod and taunt), they seem weak, anyone test those? Currently, I'm thinking to 4-damage proc it (3 PBAoE + taunt/psi) and 2-end/rech (Efficacy for +HP)... or should I just drop it and re-take Midnight Grasp or some other power? Maybe Dark Melee still needs some love, because there's not a lot in there. I dropped Midnight Grasp, as it really isn't adding much to my damage chain, and put in Touch of Fear (4-slotted cloud senses) and it is an OK -ToHit debuff that lasts a decent while. Good for Bosses/AVs/etc. Siphon Life is pitiful healing, at about 10% or so (Mids is way too generous, something is off); I usually 4+2 slot it (dam+heal), it's a decent attack and I might just change it to a 6-slotted damage power, as even 2 heals is really weak. On my level 46(?) SR/DM, siphon life with a 53% enhancement to the heal does about 1/3 the heal that aid self does, but it has about half the recharge as aid self, which means it will never be close if one needs a self heal. Here's the planned build, should I decide to keep it:

Best way around that is the Theft of Essence proc in the Dark Regen: end problems go away. I love dark armor. In fact, if I become really disheartened at this new SR/Dark Melee tank I just made (currently level 40), I'm making a Dark Armor/something tank (MA would be brutal for the defense in T2 kick). I had at least 2 DA tanks, and a DA scrapper on live (Spines/DA - the blender build!). Dark is an excellent armor set, but not for the new or feint of heart.

I made an SR/dark melee tank (build posted above). He's currently level 40 and IO'd out as best can be for the level; he works when he works, but every now-and-then: BAM! Alpha strike death. It's embarrassing for a tank. Most tanks you can see you're failing and can react. SR often gives no indication when a colossal fail is imminent. The scaling resist sucks, as you have to already have low health for it to kick in, so it does literally nothing for the alpha that gets through (5%). Then you go fight things like Rikti, Arachnos, etc. and you'll REALLY feel the pain. It's not a BAD set for tanks, but it's FAR from the "OP" that others describe it as. Again, unless one's idea of end game is running scanner missions in PI and cherry-picking council... I was doing an Mothership Raid with my SR/Dark, and the +4 rikti were working him. So it leads me to think that SR is also not so great with +4 mobs as a tank. I'll find out. All I can say is what I have experienced. (probably should have had CJ instead of SJ on, but you get the idea). Looks good on paper (even in game's paper) but actual performance has not been as survivable as other tanks I have (bio, WP, it is better than Rad, but resist-only sets are worse than defense-only ones!)

Funny you should mention that... similarly, I am making a Dark Melee/SR tank right now... Not sure what I'm going to do/where I'm going with it, but this is my initial build (not to thread-jack, but...)

Yeah, they do not have much other than Endurance Resist (85+%) and some slow (30%), but no defense debuff resists (which is why many take Ageless radial-side).

The easiest thing I do is take Aid Self. It's amazing with just 1 interrupt IO (0.6s interrupt) I can cast it even when I have a DoT on me. That's more than enough, usually. Where I see SR fail in end game is when one tries to tackle an AV (e.g. lord recluse, tyrant, anything on Magisterium, etc). Of course one can slot to make up the discrepancies, but that's a bit of a different issue from the OP's some sets are nowhere near as good as Bio. Because whatever you can do to help SR, you can do to make Bio and others even better. However, I do understand your points and they are, of course, valid.

While I love this idea, just for the fact it'd be nice to add people to it, like a regular arc, I think the coding changes might be too massive for this. You're being auto-sidekicked down to level-appropriate range, not sure that can be done outside of a task force instance. It would be that or REMOVE LEVELS completely from missions/arcs/tf's, etc. Make it all SCALABLE, which is also a massive code-change undertaking, but would be cool. I think Guild Wars 2 did this with their zones. Other games, too (SWTOR, etc). The GW2 solution solves a lot of problems but would be a monstrous undertaking, but I'd love it!

I think there are a lot of sets and powers that could benefit from a review. From what I understand, there is a to-do list to bring some (or many) of them into a more "normalized" (for lack of a better word) consistency, so the disparity isn't so obvious. At the same time, I agree that there needs to be such disparities for the thematic players, or at the very least "it's nice to have variety" - there will ALWAYS be a Flavor of the Month (FOTM), right now and for the entirety of Homecoming, it's been Bio Armor. Should all armor sets perform as well as Bio, or should Bio be re-tooled to bring it down to the rest (which is I think what was going to happen before the shut-down, but I could be wrong). Maybe this is the question. It could also be asked of Titan Weapons. It would be nice to see the glaring, silly holes filled (e.g. dark's knockback), and there are some armor set powers that really could use a buff or something (e.g. Fire Armor - why do we rarely ever see it outside of farming? That's why.) The issue with the "new" armor of Bio, is that it is IDEAL. It is a LAYERED system. Defense, Resist, Regen, Absorb, Heal. Very strong. Some sets like SR (who someone actually thinks is "absolutely OP" in end-game, lol) is a one-trick pony. Granted the scaling resistance stuff added near the time of shut-down (and I think buffed since SCORE) is helpful, but SR is not at all OP in the end-game, unless your idea of end game is council missions from a police scanner. SR (and any purely defense set) suffers an issue that ALL defense suffers: if it works, it's OP, if it doesn't, it's terrible. Well, the game cannot have 100% defense, so there's always a case when defense fails and man, is it noticeable. Unless you have layers backing it up. If SR was to allowed work, it would be OP, but the massive amounts of defense debuffs and non-positional/non-typed damage really work it. SR was the corner the devs painted themselves into, IMHO, you can tell by what they did for Ninjitsu (lol).

Plus by using powexecAUTO you do not get the "hum hum" of a power not ready (powexecname). Also, I use the /bind s "+backward$$powexecauto <Destiny>" for my travel-interrupting Destiny clicky (e.g. Ageless); it's been a fairly simple thing to train my brain to move backward once in a while to fire it off. I keep the various WASD auto powers in a separate tray so I visually see what's up/whats fired off, etc. It's a much better system than the silly bindloadfile stuff. I use that for inspiration combining: