Blackfeather

I like the crowd control aspect a lot - it actually gives enemies a fighting chance of harming my squishies. 😉

Gameplay wise, that'll depend on implementation. I've got faith in the devs that if an Absorb mechanic is implemented, they'll do so just fine, but I think that it's a discussion for another day. What I'm saying is that that's not a priority at the moment: the defense boosting powers in Force Field are fine as they are due to being fairly simple. What I'm looking for is consensus with how the other powers might be improved. For the most part, Philotic's suggestions are great with that. I've submitted a few of my own on top of that a few pages back.

Well, we've talked about that already - Force Field already does have another form of mitigation through its positional, and soft control powers. As such, I think focusing on those first, as they currently are, would be better. Especially for people who like how the set functions and so on, who do enjoy using said powers, and would like them to be better at what they do.

Well yeah, that's the thing - I (among some others) overall like the direction that Force Field is currently in. You've expressed that it's not living up to its potential (less pain points, and more inherently 'bad'), and thus are looking for more sweeping changes. That's fine, but I think quality of life improvements ought to have more of a priority, leaving things like new mechanics as secondary discussion.

I know, but defense is basically the closest thing to absolute mitigation in a game that kind of has to involve damage: you either take it or you don't. Again, this is just discussion over interpretation, so I don't think this really is going to go anywhere. I do take objection to the suggestion that Storm Summoning and the Control powers currently compete with what Force Field does though, in terms of soft control. They most definitely play very differently; so why not address Force Field as it currently is first, before looking at additions to the set?

Which is thanks to them taking a Force Field power - it seems to me like Force Fields in general then are designed around absolute mitigation, rather than a 'barrier to chip away at' like Absorption is. But of course, since complete and total mitigation doesn't work in a game where there's at least some stakes, defense is the best representation of it: that is to say, completely blocking any damage. I'm not too interested in discussing whether or not it'd be thematic for Force Field to take on a new mechanic though. Clearly there's plenty of opposing views on that. I don't see it as a priority, especially when there's a matter of actually addressing the pain points in the powerset, rather than looking at reworks to it in the first place. Once those quality of life changes are established and made consensus, then I think would be the time to discuss additional mechanics.

As nice as Absorb as a mechanic might be, I didn't think it necessary - I actually really enjoyed the stuff that Force Field brought to the table as a Controller. The kind of control that Force Field has is different to what most Controllers have. Positional and knockdown/knockback powers aren't really that big of a thing (outside of exceptions, such as Jolting Chain and Wormhole). Having a reliable way of turtling in Personal Force Field is great as well, especially if you've realised you've bitten off more than you can control. In terms of the things I wanted out of the set, it was pretty much to do more with what it had, if that makes sense; more flexibility with how Force Bubble could be applied, a stronger magnitude on Detention Field to actually hold down big threats (and maybe cancel it early if need be), and so on. In terms of "things to buff first", I'd say new mechanics aren't that much of a priority, even if they might be a pleasant thing to implement. It's more pie in the sky for me compared to other changes suggested (increased damage on Force Bolt/Repulsion Bomb, and so on). So it's pretty much "cool idea, but I'd want other things first".

I brought up the whole idea of integrating Repulsion Field into Force Bubble a little while back - perhaps as a different mode to it (with the caveat that Force Bubble is shifted to where Repulsion Field currently sits)? The latter activated means that there's little chance the former will be activated after all, and doing so would mean less of an endurance drain with only one single toggle handling all the functions. There might have been a scenario which I've missed where both Force Bubble and Repulsion Field may be needed in tandem, however. Something like: Four different modes of operation for Force Bubble Regular Force Bubble = same radius, same magnitude Focused Force Bubble = smaller radius, higher magnitude, slow to prevent faster enemies pushing through? Diffuse Force Bubble = larger radius (out of range of most ranged attacks), lower magnitude (bosses and up can pass through) Repulsion Force Bubble = same functionality as Repulsion Field - PBAoE knockback field

I disagree with adding both Knockback and the Repel of Force Bubble into Repulsion Field, due to the fact that both powers have wildly different applications. I'd prefer Repulsion Field to be folded into Force Bubble as another mode of operation (though shifted to where Repulsion Field is), like I have suggested here (making it able to switch between four different 'stances' so to speak). However, I can agree with the sentiment of freeing up one power to allow more flexibility of choice, without the removal of functionality.

Please read through our posts again - we explicitly mentioned Spirit Ward as an example of this already, and is a good example of how it would work.

We already discussed how this would work - the absorb over time would last the same amount of time as the defense boosts, with each shield possessing a small amount of absorption. It would not stack, regardless of how many times the shields were reapplied: each shield would provide a passive, regenerating chunk of temporary health - only the duration of the absorb would be extended by multiple applications. Dispersion Bubble would do the same, the only difference being that the tics of temporary health would refresh for players inside the shield, going away soon afterwards if not. I'm still not entirely convinced that Force Field needs an absorb mechanic, but implementing it this way prevents a change in playstyle from how the power set currently functions - that's vitally important for people who like how Force Field works.

Your defense to your credibility on the topic of Force Fields is acknowledged, but irrelevant to the conversation. At the moment, Repulsion Bomb is a means of knocking down enemies with damage on the side, as I have stated. Additional damage would be ideal for it, and easily implemented. Pushing enemies together towards the centre of the radius? Perhaps it might be an improvement, but it's a modification that I'll object to until better reasons are given. Folding the functionality of Repulsion Field into Force Bubble (placing Force Bubble where the former power was originally gained)...I can get behind, actually, though the implementation might be tricky. Have Force Bubble include the whole different modes of operation suggestion I proposed before, with the inclusion another mode: PBAoE knockback, with the same features of Repulsion Field. Philotic, correct me if I'm wrong, but at the moment, turning on Repulsion Field -and- Force Bubble are somewhat conflicting goals - enemies will be pushed too far away to be affected by Repulsion Field anyhow. I object to changing Repulsion Bomb into a mass enemy movement power, since I believe it fills up a different niche already, but this should free up space for a new power that can fill the gap - and to be more flexible with it. A mass gathering power could indeed be ideal in this situation.

Steamrolling isn't a problem that's unique to any one power set - I'd argue that most if not all non-damaging powers are going to 'feel' irrelevant due to the sheer amount of people that are playing, be that from higher damage output, cumulative buffs, and what have you. That's not a Force Field issue, that's a system issue. Adding an Absorb mechanic isn't going to change that. That being said, I'm kind of softening up to the idea, so long as the implementation of this is properly done (which is to say, Force Field functions and plays as is). So with that said, I'm thinking about something along the lines of adding features to the defense granting powers in the set: Deflection Shield, Insulation Shield, and Dispersion Bubble. If the Absorb mechanic is considered, that's where I would put them, and implement them as Absorb over times (e.g. Spirit Ward), lasting the same duration as the defense boosts (they won't stack with successive applications of course, same as the boost to defenses) - I believe that's similar to what a good amount of Blasters have. How large of a temporary health gain this is, or how often it regenerates I'd leave as a question to the dev team.

If you could find that quote by the original devs (as Wikipedia says, citation needed), that would be much appreciated. I already made my statement clear about discussions on "what would be more thematic or not" however - that is to say, it's clearly a matter of personal interpretation, and thus a discussion that's inherently circular in nature. So I'm considering that an "agree to disagree" thing. It's these sorts of statements that make me wonder where the more disparate changes to Force Field are coming from in the first place. Clearly there are already people who enjoy playing the power set, without extraneous mechanics (though naturally it could use improvements). But if drastic changes are required to have people just consider the power set, perhaps it's just not for them? That's part of the reason why all these sweeping proposals rub me the wrong way; it's requesting Force Field to be something else for the sake of others who don't like how the set functions, even though there's already people around who are happy with how it works (though again, could use changes - just not ones that redefine the set). Perhaps that amount is in the minority, but that is not a valid reason to dismiss them. If you meant Repulsion Bomb, then it's not a positioning power: it's soft control via knockdown and a chance to stun, with damage on the side. I understand that you don't like how Force Fields work - you've established that quite clearly already - but the least you can do is use the proper names of the powers in the set, and understand their functions (and again, here's a thread for Force Field reworks). And speaking as somebody who does like the power set, I personally enjoy what Repulsion Bomb does, though additional damage would be a very welcome change.

Simple - the force field is constantly regenerating, hits shorting it out for temporary amounts of time before it comes back online, which is when those hits don't go through. But I don't need to justify the existing mechanics, even if I personally see them as thematically accurate; they're already in the game. The onus is on those who are proposing the use of new mechanics to explain why they'd be worth the change. Especially when there's other improvements proposed which complement how the set already functions, and are much more quality of life. So I'll return the question: why the push for adding Absorb into Force Field so badly?

Your incomplete comprehension of the original post is acknowledged. Here's a forum thread that might be more your speed. And I repeat: we're not discussing force fields in popular media, or arbitrary opinions of how force fields ought to act in game, but the CoX Force Field power set. That is the frame of reference with which these improvements are being iterated upon. The way it currently works clearly doesn't gel with your sensibilities however, so linked up there is the forum post to propose them.

And there's the rub. You don't like how Force Field works. That's fine - there's plenty of other powersets out there that may fit your playstyle better. However, to then suggest dramatic changes to the power set because of your view that Force Field's powers are not good is not an adequate reason to warrant such upheaval. Philotic agrees the powers in Force Field can be improved - I do too. But these improvements come from the viewpoint of people who enjoy how Force Field currently functions, and wish to build on what it currently does. I had a feeling that you weren't exactly fond of where Force Fields were, and indeed, this post has confirmed it. So I shall reply with a quote from the original post of this thread: This is CoX Force Fields. If you want it to be another set entirely, or to change almost everything about it, then make your own thread and suggest your own new set.

I interpret Force Field's defense boosts as doing exactly the same thing - an enemy will have to hit multiple times to actually make an attack land. In fact, I'd say it's even more fitting than the absorb mechanic, thematically speaking. Forcefields last until they don't, which is exactly how they work in practice, by constant hits until they actually give. A layer of protection so to speak. But I don't think this route of discussion will really lead to anywhere fruitful. We can discuss forever about how X mechanic might better represent Force Fields. But the reality of the matter is that it is currently a powerset that boosts defense, manipulates enemy positions, and provides soft control. And there are players (including me) who like it that way. So if others wish to propose changes which are heavily divergent from how Force Fields function now, then the onus is on them to say why it ought to change that way, rather than iterative, quality of life improvements, and why this is a better path than proposing a new powerset entirely - one that better suits one's sensibilities and viewpoints.

By that, I think Philotic means that you're still able to click on glowies and the like, which I most definitely can do with Personal Force Field up.

I disagree. Force Field already has plenty of ways to help prevent damage, all of which don't require an extraneous mechanic to do so. Temporary health essentially being healing aside, which is something that the powerset doesn't do, it provides a good deal of soft positional control along with granting defense - enemies can't hit you if they're flying through the air, or are too far away to do so. Detention Field epitomises this: stopping an enemy from dealing damage at all by making them untouchable, and only able to affect themselves. I believe adding an absorb mechanic to Detention Field is too divergent of an effect from the original intent - if you're looking for changes to make with the power, I say allowing it to affect AVs and deactivate on command would be much more complementary and quality of life.

I don't think that's fair on users who already enjoy how Force Field currently works (I count myself as one of them), to change it for the sake of making newer powersets more unique. However, I agree that adding some additional offensive power to Force Bolt and Repulsion Bomb would be nice, as Philotic has proposed in his original post. While it's nice to have additional features, I do have to wonder about the intent behind the Absorb mechanic behind these powers, and whether they make sense in them. I can somewhat agree with Personal Force Field providing additional protection, since it's a power designed to make yourself nigh untouchable at the cost of being unable to attack. However, I don't believe granting temporary health after the field is down is part of this. Likewise, Detention Field acts as the ultimate quarantine power: to stop an enemy from doing anything. Is the Absorb mechanic conducive to aiding this effect? I'm not sure if it is, and I kind of see even providing an option to do so as a disincentive for using the power as it is intended. I think Detention Field would be much better served by providing it greater flexibility with how long it can detain enemies for; changing it to a toggle was suggested before, along with the ability to bring it down with a casting of a temporary power on the detained target. And of course, being able to detain AVs would be great, giving it just another niche like how Sleep is, but still conditional. In the end, they still need to be damaged to be defeated after all.

Ah well. Needless to say, I'd definitely be up for Philotic's changes to Force Bolt wholesale - extra damage and a chance to stun sounds excellent. I'm aware. That's why I included it in my quote in the first place - to demonstrate the intention of the rule compared to your interpretation of them. Just because a power's original features are left intact doesn't mean that its purpose will remain the same if new things are added to it, especially if they're not done keeping in mind that they ought to be secondary to said power's true purpose, as the quote states. As much as new features and the like for powers are nice, I believe they ought to be in service of what it is already doing, and build on that, rather than to add completely different effects, if that makes sense.

If you're proposing that Force Bolt's Knockback magnitude ought to be increased accordingly to do so, I'll wholeheartedly agree! Sounds like a nice change.

Archvillain Knockback Protection is 50. Slotted up, Force Bolt can reach past that number. I'm all for increasing its damage for sure though, which is why I like Philotic's changes in the first place.

That's what Philotic suggested in the original post, I believe, including a chance to stun. I myself like having the option for knockback on Force Bolt - nice keepaway, and there's Repulsion Bomb for AoE knockdowns...and with enough slotting, I think even AVs can be knocked back, which is good fun.