Bodai

Is this not enough to be worth it? I think it is.

You might be right, we haven't seen the data or the format and the data objects that are available, so this is conjecture. I could easily imagine between having the data and maybe some other information NCSOFT has, such as a token or ID as you mention, that a script could be written to match the accounts and characters in the database with your e-mail address, which is all you would need. Also, if you are right and it is just accounts and characters, then there is no legally risky personal information, because if there were, you would be able to match it to the people who owned the characters. For me personally and many others that I know, I exported all the data on the characters such as the costume, took screenshots of everything, a bunch of things that only I would have access to that would prove I have the characters. And you would only need to verify one or two to know the rest on the same account are yours. And, as you say, if it turned out to be a daunting task to retrieve and match up all those characters, fair enough. Charge a $100 fee or something to get your characters back, so only the people who really wanted them badly would do it. The would drastically reduce the number of requests. Doesn't need to be quick or simple, databases are made to be searchable. Not saying any of this will ever happen, just that if the will were there to do it, it could be done. But, I guess it is more fun and dramatic to talk about all the ways something is impossible right?

Yeah, so I work in IT and deal with PII, PCI, PHI, etc. The legal team would have to draw it up, but it would likely behave much like a company merger or acquisition, transferred to I guess this now licensed agent and non-profit or whatever, and then HC would be legally responsible for it just like they would for any such data under their control now. It could be done if the parties involved wanted it to happen. But, it would likely be tedious and expensive, assuming they could get permission at all. That's why this is really irrelevant either way. I am only saying, don't try to tell me it's impossible or the data doesn't exist or some issue like that. A much better and more likely reason is that NCSOFT wouldn't allow it / bother with it / it would be too expensive to do. Regardless, we will probably never know either way so again a pointless argument. Right?

I don't disagree, I wonder how much money they will realistically make from it, especially if HC is not allowed to run as a for-profit entity. Honestly I would have expected them to be able to make a profit, and NCSOFT gets 20% or something, for doing nothing but owning the IP. There is also the Streisand effect. The code is out there and there is a smattering of servers, going after them would probably make even more crop up. Ask the MPAA/RIAA how things worked out for them, and today I think they are on a relatively short list of some of the most hated organizations.

Yeah, I think they were used to things like Lineage II fitting into the obsessed farming min/maxers fanbase in S. Korea, and then looked at Coh and they really didn't get it, or it just didn't take off the same way. I saw the way people played Lineage II, you pretty much had to pay-to-win with farmers to get the best weapons, and the endless grind. We had some of that in COH but not as much. The art is beautiful in Lineage II but it is a completely different engine and feel. I tried to play with some of my friends for awhile but just couldn't get into it. I am wondering if the reverse was true for people in S. Korea. That being said, it was making a decent profit, they could have just let it be so long as it was at least self-sustaining, or at least sold it off to someone. I Dunno, maybe shutting it down gave them a tax write off like what Disney does today? We will never really know.

If NCSOFT were to give permission to use the data, it would magically reappear. Oooooh, you mean this data?

I think the primary reason for this is due to how many Asian countries like Japan and South Korea conduct business, and this is also why I am so surprised that they were able to get a license, it's pretty remarkable really. I am speaking from experience, I used to be involved with Anime conventions, and when it came to getting guests or in any way dealing with the Japanese companies and license holders, there is a whole ritual that needs to be followed before they will even agree to talk to you, let alone trust you, I could tell you some really funny stories. It's all saving face and showing respect. I think the work we did (all the people involved with Anime conventions) helped pave the way for the comparatively free flow of content we have today, in some cases they now make more money on that then they do domestically. It would take way too long to explain, I could write a book on it. But, I am willing to bet that HC has a South Korean agent, confidant, or representative that was key to making this deal happen, I think it is the only way they would ever pull it off, especially when they don't have the deep pockets it would take to do anything directly, and even then probably not. But, this is why we will never have the answers to all of these questions, after going through all of that the HC team would not dare break that trust. The only way you might ever have a chance get those answers would be - learn perfect Korean, get a job with NCSOFT, take the CEO (or another high-level manager) to a bar after work and get him seriously drunk, and then ask away. But, then you would not be able to speak about anything you heard the next day, you would have to forever keep it to yourself. A good example of this is the movie Mr. Baseball with Tom Selleck, especially the part about "asking for advice about the women"... -Bodai P.S. - this also means that I think having this license means more than it would if it came from a U.S. or other western country, it's significant. They would not grant that only to then yank it away later, not without some way of saving face in doing so.

So then, maybe none of this really needs to be said, I don't think we are talking past each other here. If you want a guarantee, buy a toaster (and even then...). The other servers could get tired of running their instance (or any number of other reasons) and shut it down at any time as well. And that might even be more likely than NCSOFT doing it, all things considered. As you say, same thing could happen to this server, but I think you will agree, having a license does make all these scenarios a bit less likely. But I will say, if NCSOFT takes any action against this server or the others in the future, they will be the a-holes, just as they were when the shut down the original public instance (for no good reason). I would not take it out on the group running this server either way, regardless of any unintended consequences, just because they chose to work with NCSOFT. Agreed? -Bodai

With a license, you would not need to operate partially or totally in the shadows. You could have clients available on Steam or other mainstream platforms. It does appear that there are restrictions on making a profit, but they can officially accept donations to support their operations. I think it basically removes all of the "gray areas"... "less" fear of being shut down. If you offered those other servers licenses as well, I am sure they would seriously consider it. I don't think you really need me to spell it out for you. People don't need to get married either, but they do and it has pros and cons just like anything. They put the work in so they get the spoils, whatever that may be, likely that will become more clear over the next few years. Perhaps NCSOFT is taking a "wait and see what happens" approach and this could be the first step to something more. Either way it doesn't really take any effort on their part, so they don't really lose anything. I for one would not play it that much for no reason other than it could go away at any time, and I don't think that you can argue that this does not at least make that less likely. We can argue about how secure that actually is or is not with a license, but many or most "solutions" are actually "make better" rather than "fix".

I agree that there is no reason to disparage other servers or be in any way unkind or disrespectful. But, did any of them do the work to get a license? I suspect NCSOFT will just continue to look the other way on those, but there are things they won't be able to do that a licensed server can.

I don't believe this for a second, the data exists, someone has it, or a copy could be found. (and how would you know? Or is this just "what you heard"?) More likely there is some BS legalese reason it can't be used, or indeed even acknowledged that it exists. I think I remember something along those lines in the original conversations, maybe something like they were worried about privacy of the data. I don't see a problem (especially if you now have a license). If you still have the original e-mail address or whatever identifying information, get your character data back and imported into your account, same way it was done on the original "underground" server (the guy who ran that was uber paranoid the SWAT team was going to bust down his door at any second). This is probably the biggest hesitation I have about coming back. I really enjoyed playing all those characters, and they took a long time to build. I do not have nearly as much disposable time now as I did then, so it is impractical to rebuild them. As I mentioned previously, I only rebuilt the one character and that took a long time. I might build some new characters and play with my kids a bit, but I probably won't get into the 20B INF super-incarnate builds that are tweaked to the Nth degree. Who knows, maybe you don't even need that as much, even with the higher level content. My playstyle was more play a handful of really well-built characters vs. building dozens of mediocre one's. All that being said, I am not holding out any hope that we will get the original character data back. This is great news with the license, but the universe is never so kind that we would get everything back like that, nothing I know of is ever that good. But it never hurts to ask in any case. -Bodai

OMFG! I saw this in my feed, and I was completely flabbergasted.... Someone else touched on it, I think the obvious question is, would there be a possibility of importing our original characters from 2012?🙏 I ask because I only ever "rebuilt" a single character because of the "non legit" status of this rendition of the game up until this point, didn't want to put allot of effort into something that could turn back into a pumpkin at any moment. We had them on the server that shall not be named but that was obviously on really shaky ground. If that is no longer the case, then why not? I am sure others here would also like to get back all the characters they put so many years of work into. This is indeed a great start to a new year, I needed this, I think we all did.

Do the programs that can export builds still work? I can look through my MID's and find it, but that might be easier. I only play about once a month right now due to time constraints. But it is fun to login for a few hours and run some mishes or AE farms, I would like to get my toon back up to 2B inf like I had before, and I am even gathering some badges like day jobs so just park in a different spot each time, although I don't think I will ever go full badge toon again, done with that. Now that I have had it for awhile, I can confirm that it is still amazing, I really love the attack chain, not used to it being both a boss killer AND a crowd pleaser. Basically the attack chain has so much knockdown/etc. that they spend most of their time getting back up, and you kill them before they can. I am only limited because of the max mob size. Zura, I don't think I would recommend this build to a newcomer, you would probably get frustrated with it because you have to know how to play it. SR in general is a "living on the edge" set, you are alive and doing great until you are not, and that one hit gets through. That being said, this build has so much S/L resist that scales as heath goes down, I find it best to always hover at about 25% health (also maxes some scaling defense). But this puts you further on the edge, and if you are on a team, you sort of have to tell healers you are fine even though you look like you are not. I also have the incarnate heal, and the temp resurrection power that is also an attack.... -Bodai

Well said 😉 This is a fair opinion, I can respect it. For me it would save allot of time leveling, so I could just respec. I make characters really slowly, each one with a carefully made costume and character concept, and I am really short on time. And I would agree, the new build I have on HC is worlds past any previous build of my main, beyond what I thought was possible. I can't actually take credit for it, some great ppl here on the forums shared it and I just tweaked it a bit, making it worse but fitting my theme. And now I am talking with ppl in the pylon thread, and OMG it might get even better! Seriously, some of the mix/max ppl here are crazy, I am not worthy. LOL, you put that typo A in there and at first I thought it was some 1337 term I was not familiar with, and it came up as "Network against Oppression of Women".... And I am sorry I came across that way, I will be more careful. This is understandable, you expected me to dig in. I am thankful you recognized this and didn't jump down my throat, I also thought that was were it was going. I remember when I first signed up on live it was in the disclaimer that characters were property of NC, and they could do whatever they wanted with them, use them for advertising, etc. I was on the "other" server, but quit more than a year before word leaked out, mainly because there was just no-one to play with because Leandro was paranoid about it all coming down on his head. And even then I stayed out of it to let the dust settle, and also because I thought that would be the end of it, oh well. I never expected the code to get out and things like HC pop up, I didn't even join in until about a month or so ago, because I was expecting even this to also blow up, so it would not be worth putting effort into. So I was never really involved in the hottest part of the flame war, sounds like you and some others were, so you had to deal with ppl like the one's you are describing. It took balls for HC and others to stand up servers in broad daylight, and they even did a great job, it's better than live was. Most surprising is that both the quantity and quality of people playing it now are better, that is actually the best part.... I would not have stayed or re-created my main character or be here for that matter if it were not for that. None of the friends I had before are here, they have either moved on or just don't believe it. Maybe only the really good players came back, so we here are the condensed remains. It's really a great story. I will bet this is part of the reason NC is contemplating working with them, because HC is showing great respect for what it is, that means allot in Asia (I go there allot). The other thing this has done is allowed me to make peace with it. I was extremely bitter as was everyone, I stopped playing any video games at all, in some ways I never recovered. But now I feel like I have closure and won't feel bad weather it is here for a short or long time, it will be interesting to see how long it lasts. Yep, I get that now, I appreciate you taking the time to explain that. I have been using the Internet since the 80's (before WWW, just e-mail and Usenet and some other stuff), and it didn't really become a public thing until about 1996 or so. I remember the HELL we all had to go through when AoL dumped their entire userbase, millions of people, onto the Internet. And sadly it was not a high quality bunch. I have made it a point to avoid getting involved in flame wars, and certainly never starting one. There is this effect where people will say things online they would NEVER say to you or anyone in person (even PPL I know in person), this is what I was thinking about during this exchange, I was thinking about you or whomever was on the other side, and saying to myself, damn, if we were at a bar it would not get this out of control. I think this is all headed for something really bad, I am trying to wrap my brain around how I will help my children navigate it properly. Sorry for the walls of text, I type fast..... So here is hoping we are pleasantly surprised where this NC/HC things goes.

I guess I was disappointed because I didn't think I could do that, so I will adjust my expectations. I will also try it on a couple of AVs. This is a really good idea. To be fair, my current build is slotted for incarnate defense softcap and lots of s/l resist, but now you are making me think about what a DPS build might consist of. Debuffing resistance and regen and stuff is a good idea (if it can work), I was only thinking in terms of increasing damage. Yes, I can definitely do a better job on incarnates in relation to this, thank you very much for the tips. So, I do have some of those and some procs that do other good things, I just was not focusing on the damage one's. I have allot of purple sets, but this is what was making me feel really stupid and worthless.... an expensive build but bad DPS. But, you are making me feel better, and tw/bio is really ridiculous, looks like both the base damage in the attacks is much higher, and then /bio takes it to 11. I really liked my ill/rad and fire/kin controllers, I would not expect them to survive soloing a pylon. Other than that I have not been interested in pet-focused ATs from a playstyle perspective, but they are impressive. I suppose I would not expect to out-damage a blaster either.... although tw/bio appears to do that too, hehe. This is some good information and advice, seriously. - I will play around with mids and see what I can come up with for an MA/SR DPS build, I am starting to agree with others that creating a build for incarnate softcaps is nice, but most of the time you are not playing that content unless you really only hold out for it. And generally you will be on a team and have your defense buffed anyways (I have seen 120+%...) - So maybe I will stick to the normal 45% softcap and see how much damage I can squeeze out, but without lore pets I think you are probably right, might be able to hit 4:00 minutes or so. - Then I will play around with tw/bio, maybe roll one up and give it a go, I suspect I will love it or hate it relatively quickly, I can PL it up to 40 or so since ppl say it is a late blooming set. - Still want to find a blaster I like too, but this information has given me some new inspiration Really great feedback, I greatly appreciate it. -Bodai