battlewraith

Well you haven't actually given the facts. He asked you what the decrease in time would be and if it was appreciable. You haven't given a number for how much dps would go up under these circumstances. I think you're probably right that you could raise your dps. Does that fact mean that, because of somebody's slight improvement under controlled circumstances in a very specific context, everyone should be saddled with the requirements that prevent you from achieving this marginal gain? IMO no. It's probably irrelevant to most players. Certainly is to me. You could make some gimpy build that skips aoe attacks and movement powers to do the same thing under the current system.

Yeah it's really damning if we hold single target damage against a pylon as the gold standard for how everyone should build. Using a build that heavily leverages IOs and incarnates to probably result in a minor damage buff.

Meaning that, for the sake of this particular metric, you are going to sacrifice the defensive benefit of barrier in order to cover the added end cost of running the 1 slotted end hog that is focused accuracy. Not that you would run this configuration in general. Or am I misunderstanding you here?

They shouldn't give up. But this change isn't "going in the other direction." Viewing this as making things easier is a lens that orthodox players use to view the issue. Don't like it? Don't do it. Is it making lower level content easier? Turn up your mission difficulty. The issue (for me) is that your obligated to a fee, in what are pretty standard builds, to take powers that are either trash or irrelevant to what you're trying to make. They did away with the fee in some pools and it didn't break the game. They could try it with the others and put it on test to see if it ruins everything. It's the slippery slope argument. The same argument can be used about pretty much any change. If you're going to change (x), what's next? When will it end? The answer to that question is that it will end when the developers want it to end. As to how long it would keep me happy, keep in mind that this is a global change that removes a pain in the ass from any build that uses pool powers. Almost all players are already benefitting from this change when it comes to travel powers. So if they add new powersets or ATs, those additions will benefit as well. A more serious problem, IMO, is simply lack of change. Lack of development. I think that's a driving force in people leaving and it's aggravated by people who extremely change averse on the forums. Yep. Cheers.

Sad that your moment of self-awareness passed so quickly.

They just added tough content meant to be challenging. It hasn't been a resounding success. If challenge is what you want, you can set your own parameters--impose your own limitations if you want. This isn't a new game. Part of the reason it's so easy is that the majority of the playerbase are veterans who have been playing it for years. That familiarity and knowledge bleeds through everything . When I started, it took me months of steady playing to get my first 50. Looking back, I didn't understand the mechanics. Now you can get help and information and seasoned veterans are available to guide you through anything. I don't think challenge is the issue for most players. People like being badass. The real issue imo is literally running variations on the same content for years. Eventually the novelty wears off. There are different types of players. I'm blase about the content, I'm probably more interested in building. Changes that open up build possibilities give me a reason to roll a new character. The people who moralize about this are out of touch. Really strong builds already exist. Maybe this change will make them easier somehow--so what? The players who want that kind of build already have it. They will have it regardless of whether a change like this goes forward or not. And maybe alternatives that don't currently exist will emerge. At least its something new under the sun.

I don't think it would be substantially easier. I don't think it would really make that much different to be honest. I think people just go full blown Chicken Little over the idea of change. When you factor in power choices for mules and whatnot, minor changes. But could be interesting.

Yeah, it's declining. Wonder if it has anything to do with the game being from 2004? hmmm. Better make it MORE like it was in 2004. That's the ticket.

The game is easy. It has been easy for a long time. People were complaining about it being easy back on live. They did everything they could to make it city of soloists. Which is something you liked because you fancy soloing ITFs no? Why don't you make you're rollback suggestion in another thread and see how it goes over? Everyone can lose their early travel powers and all of their Iwin buttons and it will all be great again right? You are fixated on a pipe dream. And the idea that it needs to be harder is farfetched when the hard content they introduced doesn't seem to be that popular. Some people like to farm, some like to build, some roleplay, etc.

Or people are playing something new. How many people leave because it's the same old thing for years? You can't look at the population numbers and just assume it's whatever you want.

Egads you're confused. Really and sadly confused. And apparently trying to get this thread locked.

It's a game. The purpose is to entertain people. If something is popular, it's an indication that people are being entertained. If you completely divorce your notions of what is "good" from what is appealing to your audience--then you could drive this whole thing into the ground and still pat yourself on the back thinking you did good work. Likewise, you could hold what you have as the best thing ever, ignore any call for change, and just let it be a stagnant museum piece until the remnants of the player base wither away. You still have the the same slots and number of powers as before. Wanna take tactics at lvl 4, knock yourself out. Power creep matters. It's just not a convenient excuse to shoot down everything you don't like for whatever reason. There's a middle ground that can found. On one hand you want to roll everything back to the good old days, and on the other you fly off the rails and say well why not get rid of all restrictions.

What you're asking for is way more radical than changing the structure of the power pools. Those were not bad decisions, they were popular with the playerbase. You wanna tap the game in the knee with a lead pipe and fight power creep by slowing everything down and inflicting...actual creeping. Ain't gonna happen. People would be pissed and it wouldn't be any major improvement. In contrast, skipping some more prerequisite powers in the pools would likely result in a couple less power slots wasted in some builds. No one has made any substantial case for how this would be gamebreaking other than the generic hand waving about power creep.

The pools don't all follow the same rules. I thought that was the whole point of this thread. Also, the structure of these pools was established back in the beginning--when fitness was a separate pool. That pool was considered mandatory for most people and it was a drag to have to waste picks on it--so the devs made it an inherent. It was a drag to wait on travel powers, so again they loosened the requirements on that as well. The idea the initial rules are set in stone and cannot be changed due to thematic, progression, or whatever justification that relates to the initial plan of the game is nonsense. It's factually incorrect. And it's ridiculous to say that in a suggestion thread.

Then you play Y. You play what is fun for you. It's always been that way. There has always been disparities between classes and builds. Back in the early days on live my dm/inv scrapper kicked ass. My friend's blaster was truly a glass cannon and constantly was drowning in debt. He had fun though, so he stuck with it and when we teamed he had even more fun. We should not all be able to have the same amount of fun playing regardless of AT or powersets unless we are all clones of the same person.

My dude, it's a game. If the point of the game is not to have fun, then what is it? If the pursuit of balance leads to it being less fun for the playerbase, then what is the value of pursuing balance? This strikes me as a fundamental question, not a separate topic.

I think the plan was that people were supposed to purchase them. Hence them being better.

I'm not saying you're wrong that balance is off, but I find the complaint hard to really relate to. Like, I don't enjoy the other ATs because tanks are OP? It's bad for people who have that mindset? If people are in love with a given AT and it becomes city of (insert fotm), doesn't that indicate a certain excitement and engagement? (I don't play tanks btw) Why should it matter to people playing other characters? They can obviously play solo or assemble their own teams can't they? I think part of the reason I can't relate to it, is that I've been on the receiving end of nerfs so often because of this mentality. Unless you're pvping, there's no real competition. Certain builds will do certain tasks better under certain circumstances. Sometimes the devs introduce something or make a change that rocks, and people like it. To those tanks I say--enjoy your day in the sun before it gets ruined. There's always going to be a meta, especially in this game with so many variables to balance.

Yeah I think openly calling me a troll and telling other to treat me as such is probably a violation of the code of conduct.

But there are other characters that are essentially unkillable while plowing through content aren't there? When you say this is unwarranted, by what standard? When you say it's bad--in what way that is detrimental to how people are playing the game?

Ok humor me. Explain the nature of this bad thing. I had the impression that people like these tank buffs.

There are ways to raise the difficulty isn't there? I thought that was the whole point of that recent TF they added. But the impression I get on the forums is that the general reaction to the new content is lukewarm. I wouldn't be against a general reassessment of the power pools in general. But again, naysayers are going to be against that on the grounds that it's power creep. I don't think anyone is going to be in favor of weakening builds.

It's Rudra. He's got real strong opinions about how you should play. Fervent thematic opinions. He can't really support them, so he's going to complain about me instead of actually answering objections. Coddle him and tell him what he wants to hear and his life will be much less aggravating. Maybe. This is a typical Rudra sidestep btw: 1. Rudra--argues for the current progression on thematic grounds. 2. BW--points to thematic overlap with other sets and that the current progression is unrealistic, both in real life terms and comic book fantasy. 3. Rudra--misinterprets/misrepresents the objection as saying that certain builds should be able to skip these prerequisites based on AT (wtf?!?)

In my experience on Homecoming the biggest obstacle to making a meaningful contribution, especially on pugs, is the fact that things melt so fast that it's sometimes hard to get your shots in. You've got incarnates, IO set bonuses, procs, additional bonuses from other sources, etc. My old builds that were great on live wouldn't do well now either. But I don't see the logic in upholding this one restriction, which is a holdover from an earlier era of development, and saying that you have waste a power slot on something that you don't want and won't use so that.......things won't be OP? Someone's thematic foibles won't be rankled? I don't see it mattering. If you have a strong build now, lifting this restriction won't make it godlike. If you're build is more mid tier, maybe it will improve somewhat. People are arguing power creep on principle. I'm not seeing any particular instance where this is going to be hugely impactful--you have the same number of pools, same number of slots, etc. You could put it on test and let people play with it and see if anything crazy comes out. I just object to the idea of planned waste being part of having a competitive build. If you're not worried about having a competitive build, then none of this should matter to you.

The request to skip worthless prerequisite powers could reflect a lot of scenarios. Hate to break it to you, but scrappers, tanks, brutes, blasters, etc. already have hitting things in their primaries or secondaries. And we're talking about superpowers here. Someone that has invincibility goes into the fighting pool for some more resistance--so they need to learn how to throw a jab in order to get it? Whaaaat? You do realize that punching and kicking irl doesn't make you tougher right? And you also don't need to punch or kick to train defensive movement? What you're fervently demanding here is that people treat the label on the box as literally and restrictively as you are for thematic reasons that make no sense in a comic book environment. They needed a description for these powers, there's no indication that these power choices are some sort of thematic baggage that gets added along with the backstory of your character.