battlewraith

I notice when you make these little digs, you tend to leave punctuation off at the end. Is it because you're all "woooooooo I'm so caught up in the moment!" or something? LOL.

I think so too. I think there should be a place where people can make grand, pie-in-the-sky proposals without having to answer to people's objections over practicality or whatever. Ideation often starts with just spitballing weird ideas and that's probably the funnest phase. As opposed to somebody wanting a very modest yet thorough proposal for something is both doable and attractive to whoever happens to be paying attention at the moment. It's sad that it would have to a single post, no reply sort of thing, but if that's the only way so be it.

You're missing the point. It's not about the devs or how long it takes them to implement an idea. It's the fact that you have armchair developers beating suggestions like they owe them money and posturing like it really matters, probably turning people off to the forums in the process. That's pretty silly in light of how things are actually working.

If you have a situation where 99% of the suggestions will fail and the ones that don't take years to implement--what is the purpose of the forum? Does the benefit it brings to the development team outweigh the aggravation of people who think they might be heard but instead get thrown into the feasibility shredder?

Duuuude are you talking about the changeling thing? That thing you were ranting about on the Kheldian forums and demanded that some of these unpaid devs get canned over? Where you insinuated that some players in shadowy circles were keeping the matter from being dealt with. This issue haunts you to the point of raw fury, but you have zero empathy for the concerns of other people. Remember--we are not punished for our anger. We are punished by our anger. I'm also winking because I heard that's a cool thing to do 😉

Thanks for digging that up, I do appreciate your efforts. This example is someone calling for a tweak to an existing power from one powerset. The replies were all basically in agreement. Four years later, the devs make this change. Is the assumption that the devs read this post, liked the idea, and then put it on a to-do list that they got to four years later? If that is the case, isn't it kind of significant that that is the turnaround rate for something that is a tweak of an existing feature? The guy that made the initial post, Disruptor, last visited in July of 2023. So unless they are playing on another account, they didn't even see the change. So for me this goes back to the complaint about this subforum. You're hitting the lottery if a "good" suggestion gets noticed, then there is a considerable wait for anything to happen. So why then is there this entrenched expectation that people need to submit a dissertation to other players who have no real say on the matter anyway? If you renamed it "speculative pvp" or something at least people dropping in for the first time would know what to expect and understand why people post there.

The fact that this discussion has happened many times over the years ,raised by different people, is indicative of an unresolved issue. And the stance that people are complainers that need to go away, will entail that it keeps happening.

Because you cared enough to post the idea in the first place? What's the emotional investment in shooting down people's ideas? Fear that the devs will mistakenly pick up a bad idea and run with it? Lemme try to illustrate the problem of orthodoxy with an anecdote: Beginning in the early 2000s there was a website called conceptart.org. This was a site founded by a bunch of artists who were working primarily in the videogame industry but also in things like fantasy illustration. This site was hugely impactful because these people, who were top tier artists, were sharing industry practices as well as teaching techniques and critiquing people's work. This was stuff that people would've needed to pay to learn at an art program or maybe learn through interning at a studio or something. So this site drew a huge audience of people interested in that kind of art and the site expanded. You then had various forums for different things, moderation policies, etc. And then you had the forum regulars, who generally speaking were struggling to improve their art and connect with other people like themselves. And one way to try to master artistic principles like perspective, anatomy, etc. is the critique those things in the work of others. So that was a bread and butter type of participation. One day, somebody shows up in one of the subforums and posts pages of a comic strip that were done by taking pictures of Barbie dolls posed in different little sets, outfits, etc. Of course it was a shitshow. People were incredulous. They mocked it and eventually someone said that it didn't really belong there on the forums. Then Jon Foster showed up and dropped the hammer on these people. Jon Foster is an acclaimed, top tier professional illustrator. He said that "if this work is not appropriate for the forums, I probably don't belong here either." Why? Because he is someone who has mastered anatomy, perspective, etc. is no longer a slave to it and is always looking for some indication of where to move next. And they will look at someone's expression to see if it holds some inspiration--even if it's a story told through posed Barbie dolls. The regulars to whom he responded were so fixated on the quantifiable that they lost the overall plot. I think the situation is analogous here.

The wink emoji is the secret sauce?😉

This one is causing family discord. My wife is hyped for this movie. I love Karl but....a martial arts movie at 53?

What you and other people are expressing is the mirror image to the OPs position. You don't want moderation stifling your expression. You don't want to follow somebody else's guidelines. If that happens, you won't post. People in this camp are framing this issue in terms of censorship. People on the other side are reacting to orthodoxy. As per Googley's instructions, I don't have to argue or defend my position. I just have to deal with pages of predictable demands that I do exactly that. And derision if I refuse. Just as you filter out what doesn't give you value, people outside the orthodoxy just stop posting in the suggestions forum. And it's not just a matter of providing proper feedback. There are other players who want dev time spent on their issues. Or they don't want people rocking the boat. Unless someone is just advocating a cosmetic or minor QOL change, I don't see suggestions passing muster or being impactful in any way. If someone new came to the forums and asked my advice on posting a suggestion, I'd tell them that the most reasonable thing to do is not bother. I'm not seeing any evidence to the contrary. So why does the charade have to be so tedious?

It looks good against a simple background. The problem is that when you put those textures and colors against a background and other characters that are similarly shaded, it's just too garish. It grates on the eye. The face is hilarious but at the same time there is something oddly compelling about those eyes boring into my soul. Also looks like he might be whistling, so maybe the sound effects pull the whole thing together like the Big Lebowski's rug.

I'd like to see an example of a thread in the suggestions forum that was a success. Someone showed up with a full blown feasibility study of an idea, it survived the review of the forum regulars that hang out here, and then it went on to be somehow implemented in the game. Looking at the success rate of posts , imo, says a lot about the legitimacy of this "process".

He wasn't talking about something happening next year. He mentioned a decision that has been made now.

Why would he have needed to see it to think that is noteworthy?

The context was me explaining to Ukase, who takes pains to communicate clearly, why someone would use an emoji rather than just saying the intended meaning. To him, I suspect there's an expectation of clarity. To me the emoji is "just signaling" in the same way that someone might shrug rather than answering a question directly. It's trading less effort for more ambiguity, assuming that it isn't some form of trolling or evasiveness. Somehow this has mutated into me infringing on people's rights to bear emojis. Sweet baby Jesus why are there so many people stamping their feet about what they are allowed or have the right to do?

Well it looks like you're allowed to do your thing. But based on what Googly just said it looks like people are free to completely ignore your input and they aren't required to mount a defense to anything you say. So I guess the challenge is just to be excellent about it.

The gist of complaints like this are that there is a dynamic that makes it not fun. There is a subset of players that bring very restrictive expectations to the table. They are toxic to ideation. The perfect is the enemy of the good.

Which is why I specified:

Why even have it then? Don't let players come on to the forums and get burned when they ask for something when it's unlikely that anything discussed there will happen.

This is why the whole setup is ridiculous. It's misses the point of why you would want feedback. People want things. A bunch of people may want an expression of some general idea. So they make a proposal. Then you have a cadre of people who take it upon themselves to find the flaws in the proposal and reject it. These same people have, as you pointed out, no interest or obligation in actually working on the suggestion. They are purely negative--for good reason. There is a conflict of interest. They want their goodies implemented, not someone else's. Not to mention the fun of crapping on other people's ideas (the comparison to a dysfunctional office environment is amusing). There might be thousands of people who would be interested in some type of change, but can't get any traction because a specific proposal can't get past the imaginary office workers.

The extent to which it's a problem varies. The expectation that someone here will understand what I'm saying expressed as English language in alphanumeric characters is vastly greater than through emojis. But, hey, I'm always willing to learn. Maybe you can render this statement "The extent to which it's a problem varies." in forum emojis for me. Those are the two types of expression between which I was drawing a distinction.

Sure, if you want to be pedantic about it. I'm drawing a distinction between actually using language to express a specific meaning and flashing a symbol, which may or may not be meaningful to the recipient.

There would be more merit in that imo. What we have right now is a miniscule subset of the population that weigh in on what they want and what they think the devs want. The mere fact that a suggestion basically has to conform to some sort of feasibility study is a big deterrent to actually making any sort of suggestion. Which I think people here implicitly get--the point for them is to reject things that can't be implemented easily or that they don't want (ie the dozen or so that probably regularly do this). That defeats the point of having a suggestion forum. Do the opposite. Encourage people to drop ideas. No matter how crazy or impractical. Use that as data to determine trends that are reflective of the types of things in which the larger playerbase is interested. Stop fixating on individual proposals that people find fault in and then just summarily dismiss--wasting the feedback and making people far less likely to tell you want they want.

No , you're the one who can't handle disagreement without attacking someone over it. You're literally doing exactly what you described.