WuTang

Yes on a team with the right makeup/dynamics one can just be where ever they want. I have a fire blaster that can just sit in melee with the right team, so can any class/build. This still doesn't make VG all that valuable unless you are on a team that is not clearing very fast. The bulk of any group is minions and lieutenants, which are melted in seconds with most teams leaving bosses and above with some HP, then there are the stragglers or runners but they are of little consequence and VG wouldn't have affected them any ways. I was on a team last night. We did a +4x8 ITF with a few under 50 players. We cleared in 48 minutes. Whole groups were dropping in seconds leaving only the hard targets standing for any real amount of time. Also, VG's target cap, I believe is only 10. So within that cloud of green (or whatever you've colored it) you might not even be hitting a boss. Well I didn't really trivialize it, only that it doesn't add to decreasing the kill time. And it doesn't, at least not where VG is concerned because again the ranged debuff Weaken is superior to what VG brings to the table. I could see how the argument for -toHit and -damage reducing the kill time when playing along side under-geared players, but that'd be it. Most all geared folks will have their survival figured out. I believe @tidge was referring to solo clear times. And I can see the point. Not having to get into melee and live there when rolling solo would greatly reduce the amount of deaths, which only increase the clear times. And that sort of proves the point. VG doesn't actually bring that much survival to the table. Without it you don't have endurance problems and you can concentrate on just ranged def. I can solo a 10 baddie +4 mob with 1 boss with VG running and I have to sit there taking the licks until all my debuffs are distributed. BUT if I don't sit in melee, I don't take the hits, I still debuff them from range and could still mow them down just as fast, and only taken the handful of ranged attacks. Also, Poison has no heal, so when solo'ing you really don't want to take the hits. And as far as popping a insp here and there, is a power set really that good if that's what ya have to do? I mean I've done it, we all have, but not on every pull, and not as part of the survival kit in my build. I think I'm firmly with tidge on this one. I got roped into the VG bandwagon and now realize it's not the cat's meow.

This is OK too because the main dose is still stronger than what VG offers. And if you don't cycle in Weaken and only utilized Envenom you can spread the love more quickly. Everything under a boss is gone within seconds in most situations I've been in. So the coverage of VG matters little in the grand scheme. I'm just saying that the bulk of the -res/-def and the only -regen can be utilized without ever stepping foot in melee. And the positioning of the two bosses will tighten up once engaged. For instance in an ITF ambush they'll just stumble over each other. And there is no shortage of nictus bosses.

I only care about the hard targets in that scenario and any others adjacent to them. So yes the "math does math."

It's ok to be wrong @MoonSheep When you are mezzed or dead VG does nothing. And the numbers don't lie, VG is weaker on the offensive debuffs, and by a large margin, than what is supplied via Envenom. In my build Envenom is up every 4 seconds with a 30 second duration, so I could easily apply two application of it and ensure that the EBs and Bosses melt just as fast from the safety of outside AOE range. Also, for what you get, VG is a huge endurance drain. Definitely should skip VG. Prob repsec this afternoon.

The only debuff Poison offers that actually decreases kill time is -res and to some degree -def, the rest are defensive in nature. VG offers a smaller % of those kill faster debuffs compared to the ranged ones. I can absolutely see @tidge point. Having played Poison now for more than a few TFs, I definitely see Poison's value, but also I can see how much better my experience would be at range with it. Dropping the hard targets fast is all that really matters as lieutenants and minions melt so fast by any team even without Poison that Poison's only real addition to the team is melting the EB and bosses. I'm pretty sure that a total of -60% res, -100% def, -75% regen should get the job done in haste and all from the comfort of 70+ feet away. Another -16% def and -25% res ain't gonna matter that much. Now if they were to swap those debuffs around and make VG actually the most powerful in the set, sure...

I've got a Sav/Bio Brute that's just nasty...

Welcome to COH! This place is crazy good. Filled with helpful folks. And gratz on your first 50! Hmm your build came through unslotted. Think you can try to load it up again?

Much is true...actually prob all. Yeah I ride that Inferno wave fast and hard but then between charges (around 45 sec) I'm pew pewing from a distance. BUT if I have great support where my defenses are crazy or we have heals...great tanking....ect....you get where I'm going, I just sit in the middle face-rolling my keyboard. Yes I agree about Fire secondary, I'm not 100% sold that it's the end all, be all of secondaries. But @Snarkys build speaks for itself. It is a steamroller. Great on endurance and high on damage and when you fail (and you will fail)....burst back to life with Phoenix.

Which of the AOE powers do procs actually work in? My understanding has been that targeted AOEs work like pseudo-pets and do not fire procs reliably. I'm specifically looking for which really work with FF +recharge. Like Tornado, some posts say it works great with procs...that runs contrary to my thinking. Some also say proc out Lightning Storm, and this one may be true, but I do not even know what type of power this is...it's worded like a PBAOE but then it's slotted with range enhancements, even though MIDs has no range listed. Another question... I have a Kin/Storm Defender and Cat5 already scatters mobs, how much worse is that gonna get with Storm Summoning? Actually, from a solo perspective, my Kin/Storm enjoys the scatter, they don't hit me and I just pick'em off while they run around. I don't have a Storm Summoning toon and love Storm Blast's chaos, so why not MOAR chaos?! But really I just wanna sit in the middle of my storms like a god and just arrest the every-loving crap outta bad guys. Thanks folks! -WT Edit: Also, OMG all the Storm Summoning powers endurance costs! Talk about the blue bar blues...

With my current toon, this is exactly what I do, but it's down to theme. A dragon that breathes fire and poison.

I find that a dual boss situation is perfect...they both get the "big kahuna" debuff and the splash debuff...and both melt.

Yes, I agree it is a wonky set. I do like the splash mechanic though. I look at the splash stacking as a bonus and not as part of the main debuff. From my understanding it used to only be single target so the splash is an upgrade. My only problem is I want to target a couple bosses or at least the hardest targets in the group for the main debuff but tab cycling is a very inefficient means for this as the group and team effect target positioning. I also wish there was some animation on the main targets so we'd know who is poisoned. I'm not real sure how usefully Neurotoxic Breath is. And if you pair Poison with an offense that is heavy on cones, not gonna be a good fit. Unless....you skip Venomous Gas, which actually isn't a terrible idea TBH. It's roughly half the debuff strength as the ranged ones and a huge end drain, blasphemous I know. But think about it, VG is the only reason to be in melee range and the idea is to stack the debuffs, but the ranged debuffs are already pretty stout when they are stacked....hmmm.

This has been my experience in +4 ITFs and....well actually all the TFs I've been in. The "hard" targets are no longer hard. The EBs in an ITF can beat they chest all they want but they don't stop melting. I was in a Manti yesterday and the Paragon-whatevers, the bosses that go invulnerable with a sliver of health, yeah doesn't matter if I'm beside them. The only problem I've encountered since getting built out is aggro. I seem to pull off everyone and if I run in first I'll likely be hitting RotP. On the other hand at 50 and with what incarnates I've got going, I fair pretty well against a group of ~10 no matter the makeup even at +4.

My hot take on Poison..... Not that I'm an expert or even have really anything to add that is drastically different from what's already been said, just that my Poison guy is brand new and hit 50 just days ago. I should also admit that my guy is a Defender, but I imagine that a Corruptor in my hands would've stumbled down the same path. My experience was a rough ride while leveling. Possibly because I skipped Poison Trap, thus losing my AOE soft damage mitigation, but my guy is a dragon themed hero and him laying a trap didn't make sense. BUT, at 50, with all my enhancements catalyzed to superior and some incarnates, the build works wonderfully...even exemp'd. Is it my favorite toon, no not really, but it was built for theme first, so it's not optimized by any stretch. However, it is fun being a dragon spitting poison and breathing fire. The cones are not ideal I know, so I set a macro for Combat Teleport to back me out of the crowd 50 feet so I can breathe fire and poison, then I just hop back in. Any way I digress.... Poison is a solid set, IMO, but for me at least, that is after 50. I do have a theme for a mad scientist build for poison. I'm thinking Poison/Rad Blast and dip into the Experimentation pool. I will need to address the end use though since I will want to maintain Speed of Sound so I can still port around. But this will allow me to take Poison Trap!

I didn't see a point in Taunt, then I did, and now I don't again. For me, Taunt is only good after a pull to bring in the range stragglers that are too smart to run blindly into melee. I also think the meager 5 target limit is far too small to really make it affective. I do like the negative range it applies, but that's about it. I have an easier time using an epic ranged AOE to pull or just face pulling. I do still have taunt on what Tankers I have, but like I said, only use it on range baddies OR if a teammate has pulled aggro from somewhere.