Uncle Shags

I'm not sure what you mean. This was the first time you mentioned SOs and +0 and the first time I asked about it. What do I keep asking and what do you keep answering? Nope, no problem! I do this too. Thank you for answering the question of who uses SOs - lowbies. Sorry, I didn't jump to that conclusion myself. I guess it would be some comfort knowing this wouldn't impact leveling. But I'm not sure it wouldn't. My testing was at +0 and the impact was significant. And if you're playing a set that does a lot of cone damage it's going to sting.

I tested live/beta with my fairly low dps SoA. Regen change didn't make a difference.

Good work. Thank you!

It's a false dichotomy to suggest that the only two options here are to embrace tankers in their current state or to embrace the suggested changes as proposed. There's a whole lot of middle ground. Exactly! What does this have to do with anything? Who the hell is only playing with SOs vs +0s?! My main 20 years ago was a Fire/SS tank that was hell on wheels. Want a video for that too? Ha! I just need to "get good"? It didn't take long for your true colors to come out, eh?! This honestly just comes off of as you not being very good at not being condescending, insulting, pompous, dismissive, elitist, cliche. I'd take being decent person over not being good at tanking and building any day! Ha again! You're a riot! I posted live/beta times for 3 different tankers in the focused feedback thread. Think I'm a liar? Do your own testing and prove me wrong. Or not.

I agree with most of what you said. I build tanky for teams and damage is a bonus. Before this I had never done a clear speed test because I didn't care about it. But for some reason I decided to check how much my tanks would be impacted. Maybe because there are times when I do want decent damage. If odds stack up and I recruit a team full of lowbies, for instance. Or if I zig and they zag and I'm stuck on my own. Or there's a wipe and I have to last man it while the team recovers. Or if there's some solo content I want to tackle. Or if I want to see the health bar move when I punch something. So I got on beta and tested. And it feels like crap. And I actually used a stop watch to verify. For me, it's too much. And now I'm stuck with asking why. I can understand your stance, but I'm going down swinging.

Agreed! It very well may be that the recoding of aoe areas directly impacts the proc damage problem and solves the upper end overperformance problem. Why use a hatchet when a scalpel could work?

Yeah, but my experience isn't leading to a 33% nerf of yours. And I don't think your use of the word "elegant" in this scenario fits. Elegance involves minimalism, simplicity, precision, exactness, grace. This is not that. It's a bull in a China shop, dropping multiple changes at once to fix a problem I would argue could be fixed with much more precise adjustments. Bingo. They are also tests basically custom made for tanks with aggro auras that keep everything in melee to die. On a whim, this morning I ran the 0x8 test on my boom boom spits death blaster just to see if I'm taking crazy pills. Nope! First shot without practice I did it in under 3 minutes, which is faster than the top time. But here's the key caveat, except for a few runners. To get 100% clear without taunt auras I have to chase down tons of stragglers, which isn't a problem for tanks. So this is how we decide to balance?! IMO Farms and tests designed by and for gear head min/maxers aren't what game balance should be based on. The OP Tankers are proc bombed niche builds. This is my point. Again, why are they nerfing ALL tank damage when it's not ALL tanks that are a problem? I'm going to take a shot at my own question. How would I nerf tanks? Address individual powers, perhaps like Ground Zero. Change tanker aoe code to reflect the actual area, like they're planning. Stop there. See if that brings the OP proc bombing builds in line. It may be enough. This is a 20 year old game. Swinging the bat this indiscriminately, this hard, at this stage, is ridiculous.

It's statements like this that has me scratching my head. Where is this coming from? Who are you even talking about? It's like there's this monolithic player in the game named 'Tanker' that has taken over the game, making every other choice obsolete. I'm quoting you, but you're not doing anything unique. It seems nearly everyone is doing the same thing - referring to this as an issue of addressing this mythical OP tanker that's terrorizing our neighborhoods, stealing our candy, and ruining the game. I've just been genuinely confused, because it's so disconnected from my own experience. I play this game a LOT, as tanks, and with other tanks, and I'm not seeing what everyone else is talking about. My tanks aren't OP. They're really tanky, yes, but they're damage is crap. And the ones I see in game are either doing okay, getting in the way, or make me want to get back on my tank. But they're not making the rest of the team obsolete. But I've finally got it. I've had a eureka moment! I think I understand. I don't farm. I play PUG mission teams. And this is about farming! Tankers are the best farmers. Tankers are the kings of the farming world and now there's a reaction to it! I finally get it. It all makes sense now. These OP Tankers aren't a thing in non farming content because their damage is a joke compared to a well built dps AT, and a good support team can make even a blaster into a tank. It's just solo farming where you need the ability to survive and do enough damage yourself! So here it is: The devs are making sweeping changes to an entire AT because of farming builds. Every tank I have and run with in the "normal" game is getting nerfed because OP farming builds have pissed people off. How disappointing...

This is the part I take issue with. I think the more accurate statement is, "some tankers are overperforming." By lumping all tankers together as a homogeneous unit it legitimizes a broad sweep damage reduction, rather than changes that target the problems directly.

In case you've missed it, there are changes coming to tankers in the next issue. You can check them out here: Tanker Changes Focused Feedback There are quite a few changes coming, but the big takeaway is that, when you add it all up, it will lead to a significant damage reduction. Please, feel free to copy your tanks to beta, do your own testing, and post the results. I've tested a few of my builds and it seems like time to clear is increased by up to 1.5 times. Or around a 25-33% decrease in damage. This stings for me. Quite a bit. The builds I tested are ones that I've spent a ton of time designing and playing, and obviously I'm invested in them. When I go into beta and see the difference it's pretty depressing. It also seems unfair, because my tanks are already on the low damage side, so I'm having a hard time understanding the justification. But rather than rant, or rage quit, or wallow in pity (although I'm not taking those options off the table, lol) I've decided to appeal to the tanker community for help. In order to stay organized and focused, I'll lay out my argument: 1. There are particular tanker powers and/or combinations of powers that interact with certain game mechanics that may be problematic. Gauntlet aoe, procs, rad/ss, etc. This should probably be addressed. 2. The changes proposed in beta will effect ALL tankers, not just the ones doing big damage. Lower damage tanks aren't a problem, so why is their damage getting cut by a third? 3. The proposed changes will impact low damage tanks more, because of some principle of math someone might help me with. Basically, increasing kill times from 2 minutes to 3 minutes is different than an increase from 6 to 9. The former goes from super fast to still really fast. The latter goes from slow to abysmal. I think these three points are true. But maybe I'm wrong. I'm biased, I'm sure. It's definitely up for discussion. So finally, we get to the point. Big brains in the tanker community, what can be done? Is there a better way? How can the devs make adjustments to high damage tanks without harming the low damage ones at the same time? Also, feasibility and ease of implementation is important, as resources are limited. What say you? How would you nerf tankers in a fair way?

That would be a 40-50% damage nerf.

The author's premise seems to be that the patch doesn't mesh with the speed meta. That conclusion seems to be based on one change: seeds of confusion. They missed the bigger change to control (adaptive recharge) which speeds up control quite a lot, so I hear.

Inv/SS Live: 6:00 Test: 8:00 Has anyone else done any testing? Replication would be nice.

These guys are friggin rough! People on test were saying they are in live, but I've never run into them. I tackled them solo a few times and think I figured out some of their secrets. They get aoe+tohit from Psychic Battery and maybe fortitude, and end drain from Psychic Flow. Ageless solved the end problem, or, I think I may have been able to move out of the aoe for psychic flow. For the +tohit I basically had to cheat and pop purples... It took 100% defense to overcome their tohit buffs.

Fire/BA tanker Live: 4:00 Test: 5:35 Tanky Crab (should be no change other than regen changes on mobs) Live: 5:00 Test: 5:05

I did the Clear Speed Test AE mission at 0x8 on live and on test with my SR/DM tanker. Twice each. Live: 6:05 Test: 8:35 If you look at the thread linked below you can see other times. 6 minutes is really low. So I guess my question is, why is my damage getting nerfed by 40%? It was low already, now it's going to be pathetic. I can understand why a build that beats out other ATs for damage might need to be addressed. But what's that got to do with me? Can't we address the problems directly instead of hammering the entire AT indiscriminately?

I too am disgruntled! Grarr. I have invested so much time in my thing that this change feels like a personal attack. They literally took off their white glove and slapped me in the face with it! And now people are telling me I shouldn't be offended? That it's only a small glove?! Well, it's still a glove! To the face! They have besmirched my honor! Oh, so you say I should be calm, unbothered, and not overreact?... Well howdy doo..! While I'm at it, I will take offense to this as well! Let's see how you like it. Here it comes...I'm taking off my white glove!

The place I used to work had amazing parties. Potlucks for holidays and birthdays. People brought in amazing food. Then one day management ended our parties. One person complained and said they felt pressured into bringing in food. Rather than address it with the individual they punished us all. That's what some of these changes feel like. Sweeping changes to the entire AT in order to address a couple over-performing powers.

It seems like it's some sort of fold space/ace cyclone effect. I haven't been on test to try it though.

Nice try. You're not fooling anyone...

Thanks for the help! Although, there's a part of me (the same part that came up with the name and backstory) that thinks I should leave it as is. True to my roots? Urgh...

Dark/spines tank wasn't available on early live so I made a scrapper version. Loved the character and backstory but didn't like the durability. So the first toon I made on homecoming was the version I wanted to make 20 years ago. I didn't realize my global would be stuck as that first character's name. Now I am known globally as Explosive Pooh.....

Needs more details. What level are you? What powers did you take/skip? How did you slot them? -1 should not be hard. Dark Armor is great and should provide more survival than you're describing. You'll be fine with either brute or tank. The difference in toughness and damage between them isn't that much. Although it sounds like you like the brute more, so go with that. Dark Armor is great. Titan Weapon is great.

I use a logitec g13. Super old and hard to find, but awesome.

My favorite is when I drop a full aoe rotation including nuke on a big group of baddies and wonder wtf they're still standing. Then I realize I just blew my load on a pile of pets...