Biosphere

This can't be just cosmetic, I can show the difference if you snip frames. This is how quick the damage hits on the old snipe. It happens even before the character has lined their arm up for the shot, but you can see the electricity. This is how long it takes before damage number pops up on the new snipe. You can see power is activated. If this was cosmetic our new snipe would have the damage showing just like the top screenshot. Here's the windup, damage still hasn't hit yet. Damage is finally triggered after time has passed from clicking the power to entering the shooting animation. This is what Powerhouse is referring to, but I think this is worse. I like the snipe hitting with its damage faster than this new delay. That's the point I'm making. If there needs to be some kind of check that the animation has actually begun, even if it's just on the first frame of bringing the hand in, then that's fine. But I liked the fast damage and I would like it back.

I didn't use Aim I was popping yellow inspirations. This is what it looks like. There's still a delay. That was just a way for me to know when the animation actually ended and when player control was returned.

Whether or not it was intentional my suggestion is to put it back how it was. I think the attack firing fast like it used to is better than this new delayed shot especially for a mechanic which says your snipe is supposed to activate quickly.

Here's another example.

Using zapp as an example here's how fast the snipe used to fire. This is how it fires now. There's a delay before it shoots. Like instead of firing from the hip he has to aim first. That's what I'm saying.

Edit: I created a strawpoll for people to add their opinion. I also added some of my gifs to this main post to accurately describe the suggestion and poll topic. More in depth discussion in the thread. http://www.strawpoll.me/20524970 Ever since the new changes where if you're in combat and snipe is instant cast (or if you have the new snipe enhancement) it doesn't actually fire instantly. In the past when we had the to-hit necessary to make that work the snipes would fire with hardly any animation and recover quick. Now it's like you still have to play out the animation but it just skips the wind up. I'd like it to go back to how it was before, make the animation fire instantly. I don't mind all the other rulings where if you're in combat it's automatically instant or the new set, I just want the animation to work how it did before. Visual Representation of the difference Old Snipe (instant damage) New Snipe (delayed damage) Thanks.

This is the exact point, and not only that, but this impact to performance is also felt by the entire team. So this affects all their potential damage as well.

Edit: Nevermind, I see it in the notes.

Exactly this. The more information players have the better. Combat Attributes helped to shape player's understanding, and having end of mission stats would help the same way.

There's a big difference between what is generally accepted as truth and real data. Don't get it wrong, I'm not trying to play devil's advocate with you, but I am a proponent of sharing recorded values. If Spines is in fact outperforming due to some type of test with displayable graphs, like how we have for archetype popularity, then I think we should see it as well as understand the rules of the test. I just want to see the data if it hasn't already been posted. This brings up a good point. Why increase the target cap to a power if you're already limited by the shape of the power's attack/cone/whatever it is?

Were the benchmarks posted for why Spines was declared overperforming? What was the test used for that analysis? I tried to search for if it had been but I couldn't see anything.

May I make a request then that for future patch notes instead of saying a generic thing like "most cones went to 10, most AoEs went to 16" instead it's laid out in a format showing the specifics? For example something like this: AoEs Most Tanker attacks have had their target caps increased. The following Tanker powers now have an increased target cap of 16: Frost Crowd Control Etc... The following Tanker powers now have an increased target cap of 10: Pendulum Shatter Etc...

May I ask for some clarification on this change? I understand it says "most" but I keep finding different powers from sets where the numbers are all over the place and it seems really inconsistent. Here's some examples: Fire Melee's AoEs are 16 target caps but then Breath of Fire, which is a cone, also says it hits 16. Titan Weapons only got changed for Whirling Smash and Arc of Destruction. Frost from Ice Melee is a cone but it says it hits 16 targets too. Golden Dragonfly hits 16 targets and is a cone, but then Headsplitter which is the same move just a different weapon only hits 10 targets. Crowd Control hits 16 targets and is a cone, but Pendulum hits 10. Shatter hits 10 targets, but Cleave hits 16. Is this just incorrect reporting from the detailed info, or is this how it actually is? If so, what was the reasoning for these specific changes made and can we have a comprehensive list showing what got increased? By saying "most" we then have to discover the specifics for ourselves.

I keep finding examples like this in the Tanker attack sets. Crowd Control says it's a Cone explicitly in the effect area, but then shows it can hit 16 targets. According to what I've read this should actually be 10 targets. Is this an error in the text or is this reporting accurately? Here's another weird example. Frost says it's a cone, but then has an attack type of AoE. It's got 16 targets on it too, but what is it? Does the game consider this an AoE or a Cone?

I completely agree with this statement. Only I would keep Gauntlet how it performs, but add a -range component to taunted enemies naturally. Add the Sentinel inherent to the Tanker's attacks in general and call it a day.

In contrast I think it could be just as fun. People already have fun with and are amused by the simple timer display from the end of taskforces. Having a stat board at the end of the mission would be similar. I know it's a big attraction for people who play SMITE for example. That's a MOBA but you get my point.

So is this confirmed to only have changed Leadership for Tankers or what else got modified with it?

I think what you're missing Vanden, as well as others, that the reason everyone is so sore about bruising being removed among the other changes is that it removes any uniqueness to a Tanker and just makes it a sturdy Brute without Fury. It speaks to the philosophy of future design in that line. Those who advocate for bruising would rather see the Tanker as much more than a sack of health that deals damage. Tankers could be effective shields that suppliment the team. Imagine not only the tier 1 does minus res, but perhaps the tier 9 does -special. Examples like this help to differentiate the archetype. For the longest time I remember people debating whether having a Tanker or a Brute was better. They're both tanks they'd say, what's it matter? Brute does more damage. With the design I talked about you'd have that choice to make. A Brute wouldn't do what a Tanker could. This is why Auroxis and others are so upset. We don't want just a difference in name. We want a difference in mechanics. Which you can argue very well. They both do separate amounts of damage, their threat doesn't function the same, one has weaker shield numbers etc. But the spirit of what bruising's creation could have entailed was a clear and distinct choice for players when it came to picking the tank role.

Auroxis has a point. I hardly think he's seeking validation. These changes can go live, but the obvious concern is that Tanker will just be an upgraded Brute. As has been suggested we can see how players will react to this, I just think that with all that analysis it deserves some recognition.

Thanks for the reply Jimmy. It's a mistake I read taunt set enhancements instead of regular. But can you also help explain just how the global proc would work for something like Chilling Embrace? Because I went on the test server and tested an Ice tank with Embrace next to a Scrapper using Invincibility and the Scrapper's aura kept threat. But then when I tried it again by itself Embrace seemed to keep threat. Is there something I did wrong or how does the proc work for the aura? Is it automatic because it's auto hit? And last question, is it possible we can have a list of powers the Controller like buff numbers happened to? I could only find Leadership being similar and I wanted to understand how much that change affected the Tanker.

Right that's true, but that doesn't help me understand why this specific change was made for Cloak of Fear but not Chilling Embrace. Both of them are not scaling auras, where one does -tohit and one does -damage. So I can see why this has been changed for auras like Invincibility, however if this new update is making it so Cloak of Fear can slot these sets, why not also let Chilling Embrace do it? It's the same non-scalar type aura.

That's fair, but what about stuff like Beta Decay? It scales adding more recharge per enemy and I noticed its taunt is gone. Same thing with Against all Odds which scales for more damage buff Thank you for the clarification. However I still hold to my point, because Chilling Embrace for example can be slotted with regular Taunt enhancements, but not Taunt sets. Why not if the other powers which have the same concept can? Cloak of Fear is a -to-hit, and Chilling Embrace is a -damage.

Can we get a list of what powers this actually affected? I went on the test server and the only powers that I noticed had Controller values were Maneuvers and Assault. Tactics has the same to-hit but doesn't have the same perception radius or perception resistance between Tankers and Controllers. Vengeance also doesn't heal for the same amount (can't be sure about the other numbers on it too since I could only see the heal.) If this is how it's supposed to be, then I think powers like Grant Invisibility should have the same value. For Tankers they actually can apply a 2.5% suppressed defense buff, while Controllers only get 2.25% so the Tanker version is actually slightly stronger.

That doesn't answer my question on why Ice Armor was specifically targeted in this regard. So are you saying it's because they have multiple auras they can use to apply the taunt? The advantage of the auras having taunt naturally was that I didn't need to hit successfully to make it work. The changes listed suggest that for my Ice Armor to apply that through its armor set I'd have to use Energy Absorption or Icicles and have it successfully hit to make the taunt trigger via the proc, versus just running in there with Chilling Embrace. Also, what about my second question?

I have some questions about all of this. The first is about that little note regarding Ice Armor. If Ice Armor no longer has built in Taunt and relies on the proc, why was this done? Is it because they get Chilling Embrace and Icicles? I just don't understand why that would be done when other sets can have multiple auras that would draw attention. The second is about allowing taunt enhancements in Oppressive Gloom and Cloak of Fear. Why was this done? Why not allow all the taunt aura powers to allow taunt enhancement slotting again? I remember that used to be how it was, and then was changed. So if we bring it back for a few powers let's bring it back for all of them.