Paragon Vanguard

I think they threw all tanks into one basket, and not all tanks are equal. I have an elec/elec that this won't bother one bit. It still may take longer but he is AoE strong, and end draining/gaining. Having to fight until you run out of end (from end draining bosses that ALL mobs have now) was a bit shocking on my main, Invuln/SS, considering I go after them first, and was fluffy fingering them. Keep in mind I started with this tank, built and rebuilt since before Homecoming settled the lawsuit (and was my main on live rebuilt). A better cycle of powers could be the answer! If they really felt the tank was over-performing, which I really really do not agree with in practice, if not in trial, then I think this may be a good fix that doesn't have to effect damage output, and can make the tank, a tank. Just my opinion, I know they did alot of work. It sounds like I am negative dev, but I just disagree with their fix. I think there are other non-damage fixes that can be implemented to separate Tanks from Brutes. For the record, I literally have more Brutes than Tanks. Thank you, this was the conversation I was hoping for. -Paragon Vanguard

I have to say, my scrappers do just fine. I can't really speak to stalkers. Of course, I never thought there was a Brute problem...heh. I tank with Brutes and Tanks, and felt they balanced out. I actually leaned more to Brutes. Its probably why it shocked me a bit with the tanker changes. My main actually DIED while trying to test him since I began yapping on here about this. Resources ran out due to the inability to kill, and that was only at plus 1. This is a tank I could cruise control on. Granted it was Arachnos and their end drain, but that is what got me. It took too long to kill the bosses, and I got drained. In the end, I have many alts to play. My Invuln/SS will have to go on shelf again till they fix this, if they ever fix it. Other tanks I have may not feel the pain near as much, especially the ones that can drain end and are easier to maintain. In those cases its just the fluffy fingers will make it boring, but manageable. I have some tanks that are AoE strong, and they will do okay I suppose. Haven't checked them yet. This will probably now cause a "oh, we need to fix something else", since not all tanks are the same, and down the rabbit hole we go, once again, that was not necessary. I guess with my Invuln/SS tank it hurts, as it is my main, and because that was my tank that I helped lowbies level up with.

There really is no point. He is obviously arguing just to argue and thinks he "wins" if you stop answering him. Let him "win". He is clueless. You do have the right of it. A nerf on tanks that did not need to be nerfed is the issue I have. There was absolutely no need to nerf the tank. It was not done because the tank was a problem, it was done because people complained about the Brute (as was shown in a post elsewhere). Now I don't have a problem with Brutes...I felt they ran very well.... but if they feel it needs looking at, then so be it. Instead of "helping" the Brute, they nerfed the tank. It will never make sense to me.

90 to 95% of the game IS end game and solo'ing IS the best measure. How do you measure team when team dynamics can change? How do you measure the final outcome if you have not reached the final outcome yet? Were you just being disingenuous you sly dog? 😉 I did not come here from reading about the nerf, I came here from playing my Invuln/SS tank (main) and it was so obvious a nerf I had to find out why. I run solo through a mission to get my mind set to tanking so I can bring new players/toons on following missions, which is what got my attention. I can still do this, set lower so we aren't spending a god awful time on bosses, or I can go with one of my Brutes. I can't fathom why I should have to avoid a tank "unless I am on a low level team". I would not have spent this much time on here explaining my position had people not erroneously assumed I was saying things I was not. I don't get on the boards much to complain, probably my first since Homecoming started, and people have tried to shut me down as if my opinion does not matter. Not the friendly community we should be/are known for. I have played this game since before there was a City of Villains, I wont be dismissed or trolled as if my opinion doesn't count. Peace my friend! -Always Paragon, Always the Vanguard 🙂 Note: If you spend more time getting to end game than playing end game, please get with me, I can teach you how to level past content you may have played too many times to count. Unless you are new, then please, enjoy the content. It's great the first few times or so and you CAN choose different mission strings.- 🙂

Fully tricked out? Neither. A Brute should be able to go from mob to mob, I do that solo with Scrappers. If my Brute has to recover, and I am assuming from damage, then I have work to do on the Brute. Both should be able to recover within the mob. If you are asking which you have to be more diligent on, then yes, the Brute. It takes more work to get him to that, but once there, he outperforms the tank in over all speed. Tanks can be a little more cruise control within the mob, with Scrappers having to be monitored very close. I hope that makes sense.

Agree completely about the scrapper. I was really talking Brute and Tanker, but you are right, it isn't about comparing just the two.

Please, just an honest answer. Who can finish mobs...dragging left overs or whatever....quicker? Even before the nerf, bearing in mind that the Brute, while taking more damage, should not be dropping. Who cleared the mobs and moved on? That's a measure, albeit simple, of over all performance.

No I was not. I was talking about over all performance. Don't accuse me of being disingenuous just because you don't agree. I have not been rude to anyone, except a troll, you don't need to be rude. I am very much in conversation, and if you don't like the conversation don't get involved. Pretty simple son.

If I can take the 400 damage hit and drop the mob, then you are definitely at a huge advantage when the tank, while only taking 200 damage, survives, but takes longer to drop the mob. Its the over all effect of who can take the damage, finish the mobs, and move on. The brute already could do that better than the tank. I accepted that, even before the nerf, as it seemed like a fair enough trade off. The tank takes lesss managing, but the Brute isn't falling, kills mob, and moves on quicker. I am terrible at explaining this, I am well aware. LOL

That is 100% true. Still I think it benefits to be able to speak out on things. I know the devs work hard, and I highly ....HIGHLY ..... appreciate them. If no one else feels like me about tanks, then so be it. It is what it is. You are so right though. Come tomorrow, I will simply have moved on, do what I need to make the play more enjoyable, and still love the game and still appreciate the devs. They have my eternal thanks and respect for bringing this game back to us, that will never change.

Agree totally. My Brutes perform well. I don't get the feeling that Brutes are under performing. I love Brutes, I play them more than tanks, as I feel they provide a more complete build ability. My top performer is a Dark/Dark Brute, a close second my SS/Invuln Brute. Yes, I do reach max resist in battle, but he is an incarnate. One of the points missed is 80% resist or 90% resist, you aren't dropping either way. If I can only get my brute to 80% resist in an effort to push damage, the damage is more desirable, and while a dead brute cannot do damage, dead mobs dont kill brutes. That to me was always the trade off, and always how the build difference was between the brute and the tank. With the nerf, the trade off really feels hard against the tank. I hope that makes some kind of sense....

Don't troll people, don't belittle, and you wont get called out on it. Ignore away, let the adults talk.

Believe me, tankers are not on the good end of any of this. I play both, and I would not delete any of my brutes yet! I love both, and I do not see where brutes are less than tanks. Different, I do agree, but not less. Much better now with the tank nerf. I would not suggest running to tanks.

Just had to troll. Always a troll somewhere. Was it because I said I would leave it. I meant with the person not trying to troll. Damage % means little when we are talking minions, both can clear a room in the same amount of time. Doing more damage making something deader doesnt make it more dead. You can feel superior all you want, its okay, but you still aren't right. You are....well....just trolling. Go back under your rock and let the adults talk. You call it wallow, I call it discussion, its what adults do.

Again, alter a maxed out build that was already something less than a Brute (due to damage), to be even less than a tank, and still less than a Brute, and call it balanced? Edited: I am sorry, I thought a Brute maxed at 80% damage resist. What was done is even worse.......wow. I don't know why I thought it was 80%, it must have been at some point and I assumed it was. So a Brute can max 90% resistance, do more damage, and we call THAT balanced? Awe man.....got me shaking my head even more. Just to say, cold written words don't really portray the feel of the post. I am not being argumentative or feeling you are being insincere. In person, this would be a smile and a conversation, not an argument. I won't be adding more on this, I can't say it any differently. I respect you, I love this game, and I appreciate the devs. I just don't agree with this ONE spot of a game I love, and truly hope others speak out. If not, I will invest in the pay to win pets, and still play my fluffy fingered tanks from time to time. 🙂

I am good with other's opinions, but lets not lessen what has occurred. They "fixed" something that did not need to be fixed. No one was going all tanker all the time, Brutes still made up a better amount of toons, and I still got a little more out of my own Brutes before the "fix". If we don't say something, and just act as if it is okay, then how can anyone know the problems it causes with wanting to play a tank? Are you suggesting tanks now lower their survive-ability just to kill a boss? Should we max our damage resistance at 80% so as to get the extra damage that would not equal Brute's damage? Aren't Brutes maxed at 80%, with their damage intact? I apologize if my response seems condescending, it is not intended. I am merely trying to understand why anyone playing a tank would think this was a good idea? I can't lessen the impact without losing other aspects, making the impact the same. Yes, amazingly lower. I was literally amazed. 😮 And don't get me wrong....I have had to tweak here, tweak there, especially with set changes, just to get toons where I want them, but I can't fix this without losing something else in a maxed out tank that SHOULD NOT have to be tweaked at all. Just my 2 cents, and trust me, I know it usually isn't worth a dime! 🙂

You aren't wrong. Something is definitely off. I played my Invul/SS tanker yesterday and it was amazingly stupid how long it was taking to kill a boss. I did not consider the changes until reading this thread, I just knew it was very off. Going to see what I can tweak but it don't look like much I can do to get more damage.

This wasn't his precinct, but he was there all the same. Sgt. Brewers needed to see what was being looked at. He had to hear what they were thinking on what happened. "Why are you here sarge," the young officer asked, causing Brewers to look over quickly. "I have my own missing persons I was checking in on," he said, but kind of let it trail off. It was a good enough excuse, as they all had missing persons all the time. What with the gangs and mystics doing God knows what to people. The crazy things happening in Astoria. Yeah, it was good reasoning. "Sure enough," the younger man said, and meandered off. Brewers did not remember the guy, he paid little attention to the new officers. Those that lived usually headed to greener pastures. Too often they jumped right over him in rank, Brewers always being overlooked by the brass. It didn't matter that much to him, he had his own, personal, operations that paid him better than the PD. He had his own men that were loyal, if not to him, to the money he could get them. Even some higher in rank. It helped him to stay out of trouble. However, this, this could very much cause him problems. Carl looked the body over but it was near impossible to identify. It had been there too long, by the water's edge. Animals and insects had taken a very high toll on what natural decomposition did not. Even out here, with the breeze and open air, the smell was almost unbearable. "Were there any personal effects," Carl asked. "No sir, not when we got here. She has a ring on her hand, and some earrings, but other than that, not much." Carl looked at the forensic officer and nodded. The man had a mask on and a full white suit to help keep him from leaving DNA. They did what they needed to do at the scene, the body would be taken and further examined for any clue. Any clue to who she was, how she was killed, and most importantly, who killed her. Too much time had passed. There was not much chance that there would be any clues at the scene, she would have to tell them what happened by the forensic officers prying the secrets from her corpse. Carl, however, had someone else to speak to.

Carl has informants throughout the city. He is known to be quiet about them and will never let people know who tells on who over what. That doesn't mean that people do not tell others about Carl and how well he treats his informants. Lee was very aware of this as she watched Jonny Boy decline even more. He was already an addict, but he was a very scared addict now. It made him use more. The more he used, the more he became paranoid. The more he became paranoid, the more he used. He was going to kill himself. She knew it was only a matter of time. She had no way to help him, even after all the times he had helped her. It's why she found herself in the office of the only cop she would ever trust. "He saw something, he saw someone killed. It was by the river. He made me promise not to tell anyone and not to ever go there. Mr. Carl, Jonny Boy is scared, and Jonny Boy is never scared," she said, her hands shaking. Carl could not tell if she was shaking from the fear or the drugs. He knew she was a user, fixadine or meth or coke, he wasn't sure, but she was a user all the same. He did not hold that against her, no more than he did any other addict. He had sympathy for them, even the ones that he had to arrest. Still, they were not always the best of witnesses. Paranoia could make them assume things, and the assumption, due to the drugs, would make them believe things. Things that just weren't true. Still, he was curious. Also, Lee was a good informant, from time to time. Nothing big, nothing about murder. She was usually concerned with human trafficking. The things she did to her own body did not seem to register, as she worried about what was being done to others. "Jonny Boy, hunh? I think I know who you are talking about," Carl said. "Yeah, he hangs by the docks mostly. Near the Port," she said, a look of relief crossing her face that Carl was talking to her and asking questions. "When did this occur," Carl asked, writing some things down now. "It was the other day," she said, but Carl waited for her to say more. "Two weeks ago." Carl wrote that down. "Do you know if the body is still there?" "No, Jonny made me promise not to go there," she said, almost apologetically. "Smart move, you don't want to be mixed in it too. Where is the body, or was the body?" Lee told him the location Jonny told her. Carl nodded, writing it down. "Also, if this helps, he said the guy said something about vengeance." Carl stopped writing and looked up, waiting to see if she had more to offer. "You know, it made think that this was that Vengeance serial killer or whatever he is that the news talks about. I mean, no one knows who it is, and maybe this was him. And Jonny, well, Jonny saw him." Carl nodded. Lee talked for a bit more, but she said nothing new. It was more about where to find Jonny and how she wanted him safe. They were friends, she had said, and probably the only friend she had that ever really saw to her. Carl let her go on, and she finally left. He had to first see if the body was still there, and then he could find out what Jonny knew.

The shooting had stopped, the fighting was over, and the chop shop that fronted as a legit body repair garage was quite quiet. "You didn't have to beat my men up," Tony the Tub said with a gruff Italian accent. "They didn't have to try and beat me up," the masked hero said. Tony could not see his face, but he knew the man had a smile on his lips none the less. "What do you want," he asked. Tony was older, about 65, and his fighting days were over. He was a captain, having sided with the Mooks. There wasn't a day that has gone by that he did not wonder if he chose the wrong side. Of course, truth be told, had he sided with the Marcone Family he would be wondering the same. "I just came to talk," Crime Fighter said, his arms open. Tony looked around at his men who were stirring, but none were especially willing to fight the masked man now. "Come in my office," the mob captain said. The clank of tools could be heard as his men regained consciousness and were stumbling to their feet. "So talk," The Tub said, as he sat behind his desk. Tony was called "The Tub" for a reason. He was indeed fat. Everything he wore seemed to fit snug, and Tony didn't seem to care. He had a gold chain that was visible, as the top three buttons of his blue satin shirt was undone. He was clean shaven, and smelled like shaving cream. He also still had a head full of hair, mostly still black, with white trim along the sides. "I am here to talk about who has been killing Family members. It doesn't seem that this person cares if its Mooks or Marcones," the masked man said. "I don't know. He hasn't touched any of my men. I heard he put down that low life Mac, and some low level grunts." "And some people not even associated with you guys," Crime Fighter pointed out. "Well, yeah. Assuming that these people weren't dirty, and somehow mixed with the Marcones, I don't know why they would be killed. We didn't have no beef with 'em. Hell, the priest was outspoken about leniency. No Mook or Marcone would want to silence that helpful voice." The masked man sat silent for a moment, obviously pondering what The Tub said. "How outspoken," he finally asked. "Ah, you know, he was against the death penalty and he was against life in prison. He was against tacking on years for something people already paid their debt to society for. He would testify time to time. He wasn't no friend, meaning, I never met him. I don't think he entertained any of the guys. He just was doing what he thought he should be doing. Gotta respect that, right?" The masked man sat in silence again. "Thanks," he finally said. "I aint told you nothing except to get outa my shop," The Tub said, nodding for the hero to agree. "You told me nothing," the masked man said, and was gone. The Tub sighed as he looked out of his door, his men nursing their wounds. They weren't really his fighters, they were just the workers in the shop, but they should have put up a better fight against one man! "Go home," he said, and shut the door his office, not even seeing if they listened.

Carl did not watch the news, he didn't care one bit about the pretty faces and the fake smiles and the acting as if they cared about anything short of a good pay check. No, he did not watch it, but he did listen to it. Sure, they were talking heads, reading a script because they were not good enough at acting to memorize one, but what they read was news. News presented by the true journalists. "So as you can see, the city is still wondering who this vigilante is, and why haven't the police at least presented a suspect," the pretty woman with the pretty voice and no brain in her head said. Reported. Spun. Carl sipped his coffee. As an "old timer" detective he was suppose to drink it black. That was the stereotype anyway. However, he did not. He liked 2 sugars and one cream. That ratio fit whatever size coffee he drank. "Detective Castile," the man knocked as he looked into Carl's office. Carl had his back to the door, and only slightly turned to see who was interrupting his peace. "Detective David," Carl said, before sitting behind his desk, and fully facing the young detective. "Do you have a minute," Davids asked, but sat down across from Carl without waiting for a reply. Carl knew Davids, more importantly, knew of him. He was a "young gun", so to speak, and a rising star in the department. Not only with the supervisors and the brass, but with his peers and the city. He kept the Family and the Mooks under control, getting heroes involved where needed. He and his partner Hutchinson were the coolest detectives Carl knew. Style and profile was their gig. Detective Carl did not like their gig, but he did like Davids well enough. "I suppose I do," Carl said, motioning for Davids to sit, as if he had not already. "I was approached by a masked hero. You may know him, or at least of him. He calls himself Crime Fighter." Carl nodded that he knew him, but did not elaborate further. "Anyway, he has an interest in this case. Seems the reporter that was killed was a friend of his." "No, not really. They met only recently, but I think he liked her. Maybe romantically," Carl said. "So you do know," Detective Davids said, shrugging as if he should have known. "Yes, and I know once this guy gets involved in something, he won't let it go. I am okay with that, as this case keeps getting dead ended. Mooks? Family? Other groups? Who is to say, but if this hero can shed some light on the case, all the better for it." "And if I get involved as well," Davids asked. Carl looked the younger man over. He was dressed like an 80's tv show detective, even with a white casual jacket, sleeves perfectly rolled up. "You do have the inside scoop on the gangs, it seems. It can only help," Carl said, nodding. "All the better for it?" Davids asked, a slight smile turning up the corner of his mouth. "All the better for it," Carl replied, but no smile touched his lips.

Love this topic, as I come to it to check out songs. Some I know well, others never heard before, but all are great. Thanks to all who post here. It is appreciated very much! 🙂

Mr. Obrin Nibro was/is a scientist working for the Vargus Biotech Institute, VBI. He was a loyal scientist, doing research in an attempt to further medicine and creating improved life expectancy. The company works out of the Rogue Islands, where experiments are less monitored, and a missing person here and there is hardly noticed. Nebro, who unlike many of his fellow scientists, had a conscious. As the experiments he did became more and more dangerous to the hosts he began to regret his own work. VBI became aware of his failing loyalties and decided to use him as an experiment to further the very research Nibro was working on. His body was mutated. When the mind began to become mad and not accept the treatment, the head was removed. The body continued without the head, though life support had to be maintained. Cybernetics was used to solve that problem with an attached AI prosthetic able to maintain proper bodily functions. A "cyber maul" was placed at the top of the neck stem, to provide sustenance in whatever way the limited AI chose. The hands and feet are prosthetic to save on the need for oxygen. (And, as one scientist put it, to make a very effective weapon). So what happened to the head? A friend of Nibro, Dr. Maxine, confiscated the head in time to save it from lack of oxygen. Experiments had already been successful in an oxygenated heavy fluid and his head was stored in this fluid. The company neither asked nor cared about this, having been enthralled by the idea of a mindless weapon that they could control. The brain, in a jar of sorts, was then attached to a body that was unfortunately in a low state of decay. Dr. Maxine had limited resources and she desperately wanted her friend's mind back. The brain was connected to the body through cybernetics, and a breather was attached to supply filtered oxygen to the liquid, that supplied it to the brain. Though the brain's casing appears fragile as glass, it is not. It is, in fact, heartier than an actual human skull. Due to the brain no longer needing to keep up the functions of the body, as a cyber chip was installed to maintain such, the mind is able to focus far better, granting Mr. Nibro different abilities not found in most humans. Mr. Nibro suffers from mental problems due to the strain of the experiments, not to mention the mental strain of being a detached brain atop an undead type host. Note: Mr. Nibro is not a doctor, as he never actually received his doctrine. He is however a genius. *artistic rendition is mine

"Police won't do nuthin'," Jonny "Jonny Boy" Boyer said, before taking a long swig of his beer. The river was quiet, and there wasn't much going on around Independence Port. The city lights reflected and sparkled off the water like stars in the sky. "I want to see," she said, scratching a sore on her arm. She was a junky, just like him, but neither had scored that night. "Don't, don't go. You don't want to see it. She is still there, dead and bloated, right by the water." "Why didn't you say anything Jonny?" Jonny just looked out at the water. "Jonny, did you do it, did you...." she began. She wouldn't judge him, though it was out of character for Jonny Boy. He actually would help people, when he could. He helped her score all the time, and didn't ask for nothing back. "I didn't kill her," he said low, and turned his eyes to her. "I saw who did." Lee just looked at him. He was scared. It didn't make sense to her. Jonny Boy dealt with the gangsters and the cults and really bad people time to time. He worked small jobs for them, sold stash when needed. He saw alot of things. They knew he wasn't a rat. "I was taking a crap in the trees. I heard them coming, but I knew I was hidden. No one could see me where I was. I saw the back of his head, and they were talking like they knew one another. He was accusing her......of something. I couldn't make it out. She was crying, and begging, and saying how they were friends and asking how could he do this. He just pointed the shotgun at her. She cried, and screamed, and begged. He let her go on for a bit, then said something about vengeance. He pulled the trigger. Cold, uncaring, just pulled the trigger." Lee Latis had seen plenty of violence as well. She never saw anything like that. It was usually gang members fighting, but not executions. Not this. "Who was it," she asked, but wasn't sure she wanted to know. "This aint a game, Lee, this guy, he will kill me if he knows I saw. He will kill you if he thinks you know." "So you did see who it was," she said, more than ask. Jonny nodded. "Who?" "I should have helped her. Why am I such a loser Lee. I should have helped her. She was crying, and begging, and I did nothing. I should have helped her." "Jonny, what could you do. You don't pack." "It wouldn't matter if I did. It wouldn't help." Lee and Jonny just sat, looking out at the river, drinking their beer. Lee would look to her left now and again, in the general direction that Jonny said he saw the body. It was about a half mile down the docks, but Jonny said it was still there. It happened two days before. Jonny did not follow Lee's gaze. He knew it was still there, dead and bloated and covered with insects and worms. He considered burying her, while he was high. With a clearer head he knew it was better to not. He knew it was best to keep away, to keep his mouth shut. He should not have said anything to Lee, but Lee wouldn't talk. He was sure she would not talk. Still, he would not tell her who's face he saw. No, he would not tell anyone. Ever.

Detective David smoked his cigarette on the top of the precinct, it was one of the few quiet places in the port area of Paragon City. He pondered the killings, and could not fathom how these dirt bag gangsters could have anything to do with a priest and a reporter, both of whom were considered good people. Neither being corrupt. Nothing pointing to ties with the underworld of drugs and killing and prostitution and murder. They weren't witnesses to anything. "Detective," the man said, making David turn around quickly, almost dropping his cigarette out of his mouth. "Awe man, don't do that," he said, throwing the cigarette down on the roof top and crushing it out. "Those are bad for you anyway," the masked man said. "Crime Fighter, as I live and breath, I was wondering how long before you showed up. It's been a while," the detective said, offering his hand in friendship. Crime Fighter shook it, and nodded. "I know you aren't here to just say hi, and I know you want answers, and I know I don't have any," the detective said, rolling his eyes as he said it. "Do you have any answers?" "No, I don't. I can't wrap my brain around this. I mean sure, the gang killings, they happen. Father Wilder, Yvette? That don't make much sense." Detective David tapped the edge of his nose, and nodded. "Now you are all caught up," he said, pointing his finger at the masked man. "I don't feel very caught up. I asked around," he began. "And got nothing," the detective finished. "And got nothing," Crime Fighter repeated. "So look, it means we are looking at this from the wrong angle. Carl, Detective Castile, is one of the best detective we got, and he is leading this case. I can't say I don't want to solve it myself, that would be a huge feather in my cap, but I know my place. This is one that needs an expert, and he is probably the best we got." Crime Fighter nodded to that. "Just he's not getting anywhere either, it seems. Don't get me wrong, you can never tell with Carl. He may have it wrapped up in his mind and about to let it all loose to the rest of us, but he won't talk until he knows. It's his way." "What do you think is going on," the masked man asked. "I know you don't know, but what do you think?" "My first thought is a vigilante, plenty of them to go around here. I just don't see the connection with the priest and the reporter." "That house that burned down last night. Was that part of it?" "We don't know yet. We have to wait for the autopsy. It was Fatty Mac's house, and two bodies were pulled from it. They were a bit charred so it was hard to tell right away." Crime Fighter nodded. "Hey, at least this clown is going back after gangsters. Maybe he will leave the good citizens alone now," the detective said, but there was no smile on his face. "Thank you," the masked hero said, and with a leap, was gone over the side of the building. Detective David looked over the side but already knew what he would see. Nothing. The man was gone. Just like that.