[Archetype Suggestion: The Duo]

5 hours ago, malonkey1 said:

That was the plan. The armors are supposed to have an aura that applies the full effect top the poet and a weak effect to everyone else.

In-case you don't know, when it comes to mez protection, (If you were planning to grant mez protection to the pet) the original Devs were specifically against being able to grant mez protection via AOEs.  (Besides the Incarnate powers, that is.)

The particular example I'm thinking I recall is Increased Density.  I believe it only grants the mez protection to the original target and not anyone else that gets hit with the AOE part.  Anyone hit by the AOE is only granted the Resistances.

 

I mention this because, since this is your only pet, it might be a good idea if they had some token mez protection?  That being said, I'm not an MM person so I'm not sure if the tier-3 pet already has some built in, but I thought they didn't.

[Lets talk about Stone Armor:]

12 hours ago, Leogunner said:

Could also make the other powers apply different effects depending on which toggle stance you're using. Like you mentioned brimstone about giving mudpots a fiery embrace effect but how about just making earth's embrace also apply fiery embrace if using brimstone? Have the passive apply unique stuff too. 

This isn't a bad idea, I just wouldn't want to over-complicate the job of whomever would need to commit all these changes and test them for balance issues.  The proposal I gave is a basic outline of what I think would simplify the set to people, making it easier to manage and be more streamlined. 

 

That being said, thinking about it a bit more, I think it be a great idea for those 3 toggles to have snergy with Earth's Embrace and Mudpots.  Earth's Embrace is, right now, just a Dull Pain clone so giving it something.. more that's in-theme with the set makes sense.  And, I already mentioned that /Stone Armor doesn't quite have a PBAOE debuff aura power that helps it survive more mobs that are around them.  Mud Pots only physically slows them and tries to immob them next to you, but this doesn't help you survive longer.

So, refining this idea a bit:

 

1)  Earth's Embrace and Mudpots would have no change while in Granite as this is already balanced, as is.  (We also wouldn't want to add any further debuffs as Granite already debuffs these powers due to its own debuffs of -Damage and -Recharge)

 

2)  For when in Crystal Armor, perhaps Earth's Embrace could give additional recovery?  Instead of Crystal Armor getting a PBAOE debuff itself, Mudpots instead could gain such debuff that helps with survivibility.  -Recharge, -Tohit, -Damage ?

 

3)  Thus, for when in Brimstone Armor, Earth's Embrace could grant a small damage bonus along with giving something additional to Mudpots, either more damage or just an END discount? 

 

Having the passive (Stone Skin) granting different effects for when one of the 3 toggles is running doesn't quite make as much sense.  Whatever those buffs might be, could just be easily given to the toggles themselves.  The only functional difference would be still getting those buffs while mezzed?

[Please revert the Rage change.]

18 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

...
My view of this is that this is a mountain being made of a molehill.
...

 

Agreed,

 

I've looked over this thread from time to time and figured I'd add my 2 cents in.  I honestly feel that many people are suffering from negative confirmation bias when it comes to Rage and SS needing this power to function and do decent damage.  I will tell you that you don't.  Yes, smashing damage is pretty heavily resisted in in the high-end, but tell that to /Stone Melee which just has Build Up and people are not clamoring to get Rage on /Stone Melee because of the resisted damage.  That's not to say that /SM doesn't have it's own issues (And is not considered top-end, but is still decent) but it clearly gets by without having Rage.

 

It seems to me that people look at the DPS spreadsheets posted online, then compare sets side-by-side in Mids/Pines and figure, 'Yup, definitely a huuuge reduction of damage across the board!  This set needs Rage!'  And then that colors their experiences negatively while playing the set, if they have.  I can say from my own experiences with both /Stone Melee and /Super Strength that this is just bogus.

 

People shouldn't be doing a side-by-side comparison of sets but, instead, dropping powers that are the same or nearly the same and only compare powers that are majorly different.  With that being said /Stone Melee is the best set to compare /Super Strength against.  Many of the powers are similar but /SM has Build Up and /SS has Rage.  Doing a comparison like this you get:

 

Tremor VS. Footstomp  (Foot stomp is clearly the winner being one of the prime PBAOEs in the game in normal sets.  Tremor is just.. okay)

 

Fault VS. Hand Clap  (Fault clearly wins this one.  /SM was generally designed to have better control then /SS)

 

Seismic Smash VS. Knockout Blow (Seismic wins but not by much.  Both powers do the same damage.  SS has +1 Mag on its hold.  SS also has a 5 second shorter cooldown, but this ends up being around only being a 2 second difference once slotted and with +recharge in the build.  So, not a huge difference here, damage-wise)

 

The reality is, the only two out-liner powers between the two sets are... (Besides Rage and Build Up themselves):

 

Heavy Mallet VS. Jab  

 

And that's it!  Clearly we know that Jab is bad, however, that isn't a fair comparison.  (Note: I haven't taken Jab on my brute)  Jab does have 6 times less cooldown, out-of-the box, while doing 3.3 times less damage for 3.3 times less END.  Sooo, technically you can spam Jab and end up doing the same damage.  You're just spending a bit more animation time to do it.  It is, technically, balanced.

 

But, lets go even further!   Lets pretend that we're not using Jab.  It's not in your tray or you didn't even take it.  If you're not using Jab in your attack rotation but /SM is using Heavy Mallet, what are you replacing Jab with?  What is a basic attack rotation for both sets in the high-end with a decent amount of racharge? 

 

Punch -> Haymaker -> Punch -> Knockout Blow -> Punch -> Foot Stomp -> Punch -> Etc.  (Basically something like this, obviously you're opening with Foot Stomp instead but it pretty much works like that.  Obviously it'll vary depending on the situation as any attack chain does)

 

Stone Fist -> Stone Mallet -> Stone Fist -> Heavy Mallet -> Stone Fist -> Seismic Smash - > Stone Fist -> Etc.  (Again, you'll probably open with Tremor and/or Fault but you're probably not going to use Tremor too much due to that extremely long cast time it has and the less damage in comparison to Foot Stomp)

 

Sooo really, it all boils down to Heavy Mallet VS. Foot Stomp (LOL) when you compare the attack chains of the two sets.  Foot Stomp does 62% of the damage of Heavy Mallet as an AOE.

 

In conclusion, /SS would still be balanced against /SM even if it had Build Up instead of Rage.  It does not even need Rage to not be gimp as some people seem to believe it would be.  People can argue that smashing/lethal damage is too highly resisted some other thread, but the reality is that it shouldn't be a balancing point for or against buffing/fixing Rage.  Honestly, Rage is so OP that even if it was an auto power with half the effectiveness that it has now (Basically worth 1 IO of damage), it would STILL be pretty dang good for /SS. 

 

P.S.  Can we have that auto-power version?  As an alternate power?  I would love that version!  xD 

[Lets talk about Stone Armor:]

I've talked about /Stone Armor on the SCORE server in the past as well because, I too, really love the concept of /Stone Armor, however my idea.. didn't really go well with people.  I have since refined my idea a little bit since then and, perhaps, people here might think a little bit differently about it.

 

To give some background, back on Live, I had a level 50 Stone Melee/Stone Armor (Along with the same character as a 50 Tanker.  This was before we could just.. switch sides.  I gave up on the Tanker after that.)  I've also played several other brutes, including a level 50 SS/WP brute that I love to bits and whom is extremely tough in her own right with a pretty kited out build.  In terms of my re-leveling experience between the two characters on Homecoming, the only thing I felt lacking on the SS/WP was just damage until I got Footstomp as SS has no AOE until that time.  (Unless you grab cross-punch and/or spring attack)

 

Re-leveling my SM/Stone brute (Whom is now 48 with nearly my full planned IO build minus purple sets) was just.. yeah, everything that I remembered it to be back on Live.  Survivability was.. okay, compared to my SS/WP, but that, in-part, came from Fault being the awesome power that it is.  Thinking back and actually looking at the numbers in Pines, I'd say that /WP gets pretty comparable (mathwise) /DEF and /RES.  One gets an always-on (but smaller) HP boost, while /Stone gets Earth's Embrace.  What isn't comparable is the amount of regen /WP gets in comparison.  With just one mob in range, you quite a bit more HP/s then what /Stone gets while running Earth's Embrace. (Which is not perma with an SO build)  EE also heals you, yes, but the amount of healed HP you get is only worth the difference of about 30 seconds of /WP's extra regen with one 1 mob in range.  /WP nearly doubles it's regen with 10 mobs in range.  It also debuffs those mobs with a small, but still there -3.75% Tohit.

 

So, technically, until you get Granite, you're actually behind /WP in terms of survivability.  /Stone has nothing that helps you in a crowd of mobs like /WP does.  Rooted does give you some debuff resistances that /WP doesn't get which is nice but doesn't really warrant the debuffs that you get in exchange, especially in modern play.  While /Stone has decent END drain resistance, there's just nothing that helps it's large END requirements to run all of those toggles.  (Yet /Elec gets both END/Rec resistances along with END powers.)  Mudpots is especially nasty at 0.78 END/s (Verse 0.52 END/s for other damage auras, but it does have the slow/immob in it, although sometimes it feels like that part doesn't even work and mobs just run through it.)

 

There's also the other issues with the set, such as lots of toggle juggling that other people have mentioned.  Particularly if you actually want to pop in and out of Granite.  (And because of this, you actually are running an END discount while in Granite because you're running less toggles...  Which seems like a silly mechanic to me.)  You are, in fact, actively discouraged to not get out of Granite.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

With all of that being said, here are my actually ideas to improve /Stone without effecting the flavor or how the set works too much from what we have now.  Keep in mind, these are brute numbers I'll be suggesting since I'm more familiar with them.

 

1)  Strip 5.63% RES off Granite and give it Stone Skin.  As long as Stone Skin is slotted for the same RES enhancement as you would Granite you still get the same over-all amount of RES when in Granite.  You'll just have more RES when not in Granite.  Definitely helps the lower-end survivability while not changing high-end at all.  This also makes Stone Skin more comparable to High Pain Tolerance and True Grit.

 

2)  Rooted should definitely come sooner then Mudpots.  If we must keep the rooted debuff on it, then it should either be buffed in some way or part of the -runspeed debuff should be resistible.  (Or just flat reduce it) That gives another way we can build around the debuff, at least.  (Basically using Winter sets to resist some of the -slow debuff)  Although, in my humble opinion, I think if it had only the rooted part of the debuff but little or no -runspeed, then it would be about right.  It would be similar to the effect of Grounded.  -Runspeed, I feel, should just be mostly from Granite.

 

3)  In order to reduce toggle juggling and normalize END usage and basically give the set better QOL in it's handling I suggest this:  Make Granite, Crystal, and Brimstone Armor the only exclusive toggles of the set.  How would this work?

 

A)  Shave ALL of the S/L defense off Granite. (Yes, all 15%) and let Rock Armor stack on top.  Yes, you'll have less S/L defense because of this.  Yes, you'll use more END because of this.  But, what could you get in exchange, you ask?  Being able to run Minerals, if you want, on top of Granite.  I feel that's a pretty good trade-off.  Granite more-or-less stays the super-tank toggle and you now can get Psi DEF while in it.  You still wouldn't have Psi RES though.  Perhaps some toxic RES could be removed from it to further balance this, if needed?

 

B)  Since Crystal and Brimstone would be exclusive to each other.  Each can have a different theme to them.  Crystal could then be the tank-lite toggle.  Buff up it's numbers (Adding in DEF it doesn't have) and maybe even give it a PBAOE debuff aura like some of the other sets have.  Or give it extra END recovery or both?

 

C)  Brimstone could then be your Offensive-leaning armor toggle.  Buff its RES up minorly (Adding what it doesn't have), but have it boost the damage of Mudpots, or even give the Fiery Embrace mechanic, definitely seems in-theme.  Give it some slow resistance, even.  (Which could make you run faster if the -runspeed was kept on Rooted, but part of it was resistible.  Snergy~)

 

Effectively, this idea makes those 3 toggles into stance toggles:  Heavy Defensive (Granite with the heavy debuffs it already has), Light Defensive (Crystal with no debuffs and some buffs), Offensive. (Brimstone with less overall protection, but with more offensive abilities tacked onto it.)  Rock Armor and Minerals could always be used under those three, so you're only having to switch between those 3 toggles, with no toggles dropping.  Far simpler.  It's even better since you -wouldn't- have to take all three, if you didn't want too.  You'd have a choice in which ones you actually want to keep and use of those three armor toggles because they couldn't be used at the same time.  The cooldown on all three of the toggles could be increased for a further balance point, as well.

 

The only people I'd assume whom wouldn't like this change (And have a decent reason for it), are the ones whom do already layer Crystal and Brimstone together and like that look.  For them, couldn't alternate FX be added to give that layered look on either Crystal or Brimstone by themselves?