[Let's Talk About the Holy Trinity]

10 hours ago, Without_Pause said:

Its insulting. More so for a game which includes FF, Sonic, and TA. Oh, you don't heal? You aren't wanted. Go play a real support set.

 

Anyone who says that is obviously a noob, regardless of how long they have been playing the game. In the early days, Debuffs and Buffs were every bit as important as Heals.

[Lets talk Regeneration Set]

1 minute ago, Psi-bolt said:

 

No quarrel with your point here, but I remember when I was playing SWTOR and PvPing regularly if there were a power like MoG given to any class, there would have been a riot talking about how broken and unfair it is.  City of Heroes is a funny but deeply odd game.

 

I used to love that game until the DoT nerf (long before the Cartel Market thing started and the nerf to the trees and how you could mix and match abilities from those trees) to Annihilation Sentinels came along. After that, I was gone. I played Fatman, the PvP server, so those DoTs meant a lot to me, heh.

[Lets talk Regeneration Set]

47 minutes ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

Try using Moment of Glory first next time!

 

lol, an extremely small moment.  😜

[Symphony Control Mod]

5 hours ago, Oubliette_Red said:

 

Like you, I looked in there but never actually played the files. Slackers.

 

 

We must be getting old, lol.

[Lets talk Regeneration Set]

8 minutes ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

Regen is fun!

 

So is having your head flushed down a toilet.  😉

[Let's Talk About the Holy Trinity]

10 minutes ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

 Teams leave them pancake'd in seconds!

 

Literally.

[Let's Talk About the Holy Trinity]

2 hours ago, macskull said:

That's because in an MMO context when someone says "holy trinity" they're almost certainly talking about tank/dps/heal.

 

I figured as much, which was why I went on to clarify. I simply was trying to use the term in the same way that I have seen others use it on these forums. I had never even heard the term until these forums, so then there is that, heh.

 

2 hours ago, macskull said:

Also, for what it's worth, the difficulty system is only marginally effective at making things harder. If an 8-person team is steamrolling at +0 they will probably have an easy go of it even when raising the difficulty to +4. Task force and flashback settings can increase the challenge but if there's no tangible reward for utilizing those challenge settings people aren't going to use them. There's a reason hard mode content dumps extra rewards onto you, and sometimes even those are barely worth it. At the end of the day, this game is - and pretty much always has been - easy, which is also why it's so popular. The game attracts a playerbase that isn't looking for a challenge (which is also one of the reasons PvP never took off in this game). The people who want things to be harder are a vocal minority, but I think giving them what they want isn't a bad thing as long as that increased difficulty is optional. Hard mode settings do a great job of this, but PuG hard mode content isn't all that common because people simply don't want to deal with it.

 

You know me, Macskull...I am completely against anything forced in this game, I have been on the receiving end of forced changes quite a few times in this game, I understand full well how that feels, so I do not advocate for anything forced on anyway, not now, not ever. 

As far as raising the difficulty goes, it may still be easy for certain teams, especially teams with Kins, however, If it were me and I were in charge, I would give mobs at higher difficulty much more staying power by upping their hit points by a huge margarine. I would also adjust the xp/influence accordingly. That gives the mobs a bit of extra staying power and gives the illusion (at least) that the mobs are more difficult.  At least mobs won't be dead before you can even hit them with at least...something.

 

We don't have to make them more powerful per-say, but...we can sure make them last a lot longer. At -1 through say, +1, mobs stay the same. At +2 and above, mobs get quadruple the amount of Hit Points and their XP and Influence/Infamy reflect this. Theoretical mind you, if I were in charge.

 

As far as minority, I'm honestly not so sure. When I advertise a Citadel at +2 and get bombarded with Tells, it sure doesn't feel like a minority. Players will often even comment things like, "Finally...a player with balls" (which is a direct quote) and other such comments. I never have an issue filling my teams. So if it is a minority, I don't suspect it is by much. It's honestly hard to say for 100% certain though since we have no way to datamine this.

[Solarverse's SFX Consolidated List of Mods]

1 hour ago, Techwright said:

Might just finally get around to making a technological symphony character broadcasting this.  It's an interesting combination.  I would not have expected the light-hearted Mozart's Rondo Alla Turca built for damage alongside more obvious weighty choices of Carmina Burana and Also Sprach Zarathustra.

 

Since two of those powers (both Immobilize powers) use the same SFX file, having anything that had Brass in it just became a headache to listen to during trial runs of previous versions of the Mod, since those sounds would often overlap each other due to fast recharge. So those were changed to Rondo Alla Turca by Mozart to soften the blow so-to-speak. Carmina Burana seemed to be the obvious and logical choice for a Fear power, since that composition in of itself has a dark tone with a feeling of evil lurking through the music alone, let alone the Dark tone of the lyrics. The Sprach Zarathustra Op. 30 (AKA the 2001/2010 theme) seemed logical for an AoE Hold because...well, that is the most powerful ability in any Controller's tool-set, I wanted that one to have an attention getting boom. 😉

 

 

[Let's Talk About the Holy Trinity]

25 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

So, not a trinity at all holy or not. As someone who ODed on Kin on Live, I prefer not having Kin or Dark reduced to being 'healers.'

 

Hahaha, funny funny, lol.

However, I don't think anyone means "Healers" when they say "healers" but rather a character in which has powers with the capability to Heal. It's more of a Blanketed statement since we all already know that Healers can contribute to a team in so many more ways than just Heal.

[Let's Talk About the Holy Trinity]

1 hour ago, Ananke said:

Have you done any 4* content? Seems like that's content that would be perfect for you.

Perfect for me as well, it forces order whether people want to or not. To play with chaos ends in chaos.

[Lets talk Regeneration Set]

19 minutes ago, Psi-bolt said:

 

I have an Ice/Regen Scrapper.  I created with the same idea as you did.  I thought it was survivable enough, but yes I thought it was much too slow at killing for a Scrapper.  My Ice/Regen Sentinel is more fun.

 

Regen on a Sent from what I keep hearing isn't that bad. I have yet to try it because I don't play Sents, but, let me ask you, in your opinion, how would Regen play if that was proliferated over to Scrappers...theoretically of course?

[Lets talk Regeneration Set]

1 minute ago, Psi-bolt said:

 

Honestly, hyperbole like this is where you lose me.  Saying that ANY set that can handle +4/x8 spawns of ANY faction is "complete and utter garbage" is just over the top.  I've played this set for nearly 20 years.  It has problems, it's not for everyone, certainly it's not for you anymore.    Regen which gets most of its protection in a reactive manner is not ever going to be as good as some other sets.  Even Issue 1 Regen MAY just barely survive the standard you've set for it.  

 

 

 

Hyperbole, eh? It's all that? Sure thing, guess we will just have to agree to disagree, I stand by my statement, the set is complete shit.

[Let's Talk About the Holy Trinity]

2 minutes ago, cranebump said:

Seems to me the key words here aren’t  “holy trinity,” but “order” and “chaos.” The OP wants a specific, predictable type of play, geared to a certain era. I think you can run teams that way, if you want. I’ve been on a few HC teams with old school tankers running groups who will have everyone hang back, then announce where they’re herding the mobs.
 

If that’s what you want, you can play and recruit that way. You can find others and run in an SG that focuses on “Legacy Play,” to include limits on enhancements, AT types and so on. Meanwhile, others can run the way they want, and never the twain need meet. Everyone’s happy. (Hopefully)

 

The one thing that does resonate here with me is that the speed and ease of play does diminish the need we may have had for teammates in order to succeed in certain tasks. If there’s one thing predictable about the game now, it’s that most TFs will be rapid steamrolls, regardless of who shows up.
 

Even so, the game can still surprise sometimes. Ran Stockwell arc with a group today. Pulled Chernobog and some adds spewing Dark Debuffs. We wiped, had to reload, then pulled. When he and his mobs came to us again, a couple of us targeted the adds first, THEN hit ‘Bog without his support. The whole arc wasn’t a complete cakewalk now that I think on it. And it was fun because it harder than normal. Well, fun for me and my very stupid “I can make Regen work!” Scrapper. Not so sure about everyone else.:-)

 

No, that is not what I want. I'm not looking for a Tank to say, "Wait here while I go herd..." most teams in those days didn't need to be told anything at all, they just knew to let the Tank gain the aggro and let the mobs come to him first before they all jumped in. It was common sense back then. The speed in which teams moved was very affective.

The speed does not diminish with this type of gameplay, that is an illusion because everyone plays at +0 these days on average. When you crank up the difficulty to meet your teams max capabilities, suddenly that face rolling technique falls apart. This is where order excels far beyond the "face rolling easy mode mobs."

[Symphony Control Mod]

39 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

 

 

Now that sounds like the mod to own them all!

 

Anything I desire... anything at all? /em eyebrow wiggle and moustache twirl

lol, yuppers yuppers, lol

[Symphony Control Mod]

2 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

I've never really used mods so this raises a couple of questions.

 

As it stands those clips would annoy the living daylights out of me, though I respect the intention of the OP/Modder

 

If you mod something like the sounds, would those sounds be heard by every PC in that encounter, or simply the person who's modded the files?

 

Only you and anyone else who had the mod.

 

2 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

Can those sound clips be changed by players? Personally I fancy a bit of Coltrane or Davis and maybe a bit of Ornette Coleman or Charles Mingus for the higher damaging powers 🎶

 

Yes, they can be changed to anything you desire.

[Let's Talk About the Holy Trinity]

2 minutes ago, MoonSheep said:

 

i do find running TFs on enemies buffed incurs a classic CoH feel as people are forced to play together to succeed

 

when i saw this thread i was a bit annoyed as i’ve been meaning to make a post for weeks on why i think the game has decayed into its current state

 

IOs have ruined CoH and were a mistake.

 

they introduced a materially significant increase in character strength without the game responding by increasing enemy strength or difficulty

 

IOs have allowed people to reject teamplay and solo everything in the game - this has led to the demise of support and control ATs which aren’t needed or valued

 

I agree, IO's where the final nail in the coffin that ended strategic gameplay. And that was my point with this thread, I miss the days when players used to play strategically. Today, it's a lot of time every man/woman/child for themselves, full speed ahead and be damned the torpedoes.  Anyway, it was a long haul tonight, gonna get some game time in before bed. Take care and thanks for the support.

[Lets talk Regeneration Set]

2 minutes ago, liveevil2000 said:

I’m not going to sit here and bash the set. 
I played it for 3 days and 31 levels.  
that’s the sum of my experience with it. 
 

If there are people who have fun with it and like playing it, I am in no position to bash it and take that fun away. 

 

We each handle our issues in our own way, some, like myself, this battle with Regen is more personal than it is for others. I played the set when it was actually good...granted, too good, but going from too good to completely useless was an extreme that was dealt like a punishment rather than a balancing action. To each their own though.

[Let's Talk About the Holy Trinity]

4 minutes ago, MoonSheep said:

on a more constructive note - the game has lost its appeal. everything has been watered down to homeopathic levels of challenge and doesn’t hold my interest much anymore

 

i log on and play because of the nostalgia, but a game without challenge and gradual progression isn’t interesting to me. if i wanted auto win and solo play i’d buy the sims

 

 

I found a way to keep my interest by cranking up mobs to what I think my team can handle, but with caution. You can kind of do that when you create your own PUG groups. No Speedies at +0 here, somebody joins my teams, we will run it at +2, +3 or even +4. I won't crank it up to impossible (each team can handle different levels of difficulty) but I'll be damned if my wife tries to hit something with a blaster and the mobs are already dead before she can even hit one...it's mission cranking time, heh.

[Let's Talk About the Holy Trinity]

5 minutes ago, MoonSheep said:

 

haha, i knew this would be downvoted. i completely agree mate. to manage expectations, people are highly offended at the thought of having to play CoH

 

let me summarise the three types of responses you’ll be receiving:

1. muh playstyle

2.  having to work to achieve in-game items is unbearable, everything should be instantly available

3. every game should be a sandbox pickup and play FPS because that’s the style i enjoy

 

can’t believe you expect MMO mechanics in an MMO, so unreasonable man

 

I'm used to it. If they gave a reward for the most thumbs down, I am sure I would be a top 10 contender, lol.

[Lets talk Regeneration Set]

3 hours ago, liveevil2000 said:

Guys,

 

today marks day 3 of playing with the regen set on a brute. 
 

I find that the Regeneration set does not agree with my play style when it comes to the way I want to play a hand to hand character. 
 

I do not possess the finesse to manage this power set as described in some of the previous posts. 
 

while this set may work for some of you, it does not for me. I’m sure the set is great in the capable hands of someone who knows when and how to use each power. 
I’m not that person. 
 

in the end and to sum up this little journey. I did not have fun with the toon. 

 

Don't worry, Regen used to be my jive, I played the living hell out of it. So when people say things like, "It is a set that is not for everybody" I eye roll at that statement, and that is putting it extremely kindly. It doesn't take rocket science to play the set. I explained the reason why I think players are talking the set up and I have seen no reason to change my mind. Using +4 x8 Council to talk up Regen's survival is like me saying that I am a great fighter because I can whoop little kids at the playground...when I am a grown adult. The talking point doesn't hold it's own very well. The set is not rocket science what-so-ever, so don't think it takes some type of mystical understanding of the set to play the set like some will have you believe. The set is complete and utter garbage, end of story.

[Let's Talk About the Holy Trinity]

6 minutes ago, Snarky said:

You lost me at well balanced…. I run a Brute!

 

To be fair, Brutes did not even exist back then, so it's perfectly okay, Snarky, lol.

[Let's Talk About the Holy Trinity]

3 hours ago, macskull said:

I'm a little confused by the OP asserting they miss the holy trinity in this game when this game never had it to begin with. There was only one "healing" set in the game at launch and 20 years later you can say there's two, maybe three, but the healing from those sets has never been the primary draw from a gameplay standpoint. The basic combat mechanics of this game have been virtually unchanged since launch and they're so simplistic that stacking buffs and debuffs has made healing an afterthought since the get-go. "Healers" in this game are, and have always been, noob traps. Healing is an acceptable form of damage mitigation at lower levels where players don't have key powers, the slots for the powers they do have, or enough enhancements to fill those slots, but by the time you get out of the low 20s (especially now that higher-tier powers are available earlier) it's kind of unnecessary outside of niche content, and other support sets offer strong buff/debuff ability while also providing enough healing for those occasions where it's needed.

 

Perhaps what OP is really missing is team diversity and an era where low-DPS buff and debuff characters had an actual role, and I think they might have a point there, but I would argue Issue 18 kind of blew the doors off team AT diversity once you were able to play any AT on either side. Prior to Issue 18 if I wanted to play a buff/debuff character blueside I would roll a Defender or Controller because those were my options, but once that barrier went away there wasn't really much of a reason for me to not simply roll a Corruptor. The same thing happened with Tankers and Brutes: Tankers were pretty much dead in the water compared to Brutes until Tankers got turbo-buffed, and now it's Brutes that lack identity.

 

But it did have it, see above. Maybe for whatever reason there is a selective definition being applied to the word Holy Trinity. When ever a player asks for something in the suggestion forums something that sounds like it is geared toward bringing back the old ways of playing this game, players on this board are extremely quick to say, "We don't want the Holy Trinity back in this game." So I fail to understand how now suddenly it never existed? This is why I say it is selective definition, much like selective hearing or selective memory.

 

Also, that is what Healers have turned in to...that was not always the case. And I stand by that 100%.

 

 

[Let's Talk About the Holy Trinity]

Okay, I can see a lot of you aren't understanding what I am saying by Holy Trinity. Holy Trinity in this game goes beyond just Tank, Healer and DPS. In this game, the Holy Trinity is just a phrase used to describe a well balanced team who plays by a set of rules to keep the team running smoothly so that the team can get through difficult content. What this means, is Tank gathers mobs, Controllers lock those mobs down once they are stacked on Tank, Debuffers do their Debuffing and then DPS launch their assault and healers healed, be it Kin, Dark or Emp Defenders. A well balanced team could consist of a few different combinations. Let's take Positron's Task Force (the original) for an example. In the days of the old, you couldn't set mission levels and Clockwork King did not die so easily. You couldn't take him down in mere seconds like you can today. Not just any Tank could Tank him either. Fire Tanks fell hard against Clockwork King for example, however not limited to.

 

Some of you are saying that the Holy Trinity never existed, well built teams were never needed...well, I remember it very differently than you do. I remember Stone Tanks in those days were really the only Tanks that could main Tank Clockwork King because Stone Tanks were the only ones who had Defense to Psionics. Any other Tank would crumble in seconds. If you could not find a Stone Tank, then you covered that hole by having buffers on the team to buff the living hell out of whatever Tank you had available. That team would often require Rad Defenders, HEALERS (not sure why that word would even bother somebody...) Controllers and DPS. A typical team in those days would be 1 Tank, 1 Scrapper, 1 Controller, 2 Blasters, 1 Healer, 1 Debuffer and 1 Buffer. That was your Holy Trinity. You all thinking Holy Trinity in reference to this game meaning Tank, Heals and DPS only are mistaken. Also, I am not the one who started using this word to describe the old ways of City of Heroes, many of you are the ones who started to use that in reference to the game...I simply adopted the word since it has been used on these forums more times than I can count.

I find it odd how none of you remember such game play in this game, as if it just never happened. I'm wondering, selective memory? In my experience, it was the absolute most common game play. Now, this did not apply to Story Arcs, in Story Arcs you could pretty much build whatever type of a team, this Holy Trinity style game play primarily applied to TF's, since you could not adjust the level of the TF's in those days. It wasn't an option. You didn't get to set it to +0 and just face roll through the mobs. You had to build a good team. I question the validity or memory of those who are saying otherwise because it goes completely against my experience of this game back then. Those were the days when you either played by the rules or you were kicked from the team. I can't imagine the way people play this game today ever flying in those days...it just wouldn't happen. People preferred order, people HATED knock back and people would kick Controllers who insta locked mobs before the Tank could stack them. Remember when people were actually extremely grateful for a Healer and actually thanked them for their heals? I do...

Now, perhaps you are remembering times from like-minded players in your SG's? I don't think it is a server thing because I played on Justice, Protector and Freedom in those days and it was the same on all three of those servers. I also primarily PUGed, I had an SG, played with them whenever possible, but primarily PUGed in those days just as I do today.

When you say the Holy Trinity never existed, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree because I know damn well it existed and it was the norm of game play style. I'm not comprehending how your experience could be different than mine if you PUGed at all. So it must be because you only teamed with friends or something? I'm sure there is some logical explanation as to why I remember this but you do not. Maybe it was because over the years I watched it crumble due to power creep and changes to the game and hated it, where most of you welcomed those changes that I hated so much...so from your perspective, it didn't matter as much to you as it did to me? Hell, your guess is as good as mine. However, I know it existed and I know it was what was expected of you if you joined somebody's team. People who did not play in this way were often kicked from the teams...PUG teams. So who knows.

 

[Symphony Control Mod]

9 hours ago, Oubliette_Red said:

 

Where on earth were they hiding?

 

The Enemies folder. They were the TOV files. I would have never even thought to check those...and I scanned with my eye those very files, but never bothered playing them to see.

[Let's Talk About the Holy Trinity]

P.S. I have to head to work for a while, so it may take some time to respond to questions or comments. I drive Simi these days as my retirement job (it's easy and laid back work, you simply can't beat it and it pays well) so I won't be able to respond until I get to the dock that my load is going to...I drive locally so it won't take more than a few hours. Just an FYI.