Overwhelming Force KB>KD Doesn't work right

[cooljef4]

https://youtu.be/p5mHk207UlU

 

Did a quick video comparing Overwhelming Force to Sudden Acceleration. As you can see in the video, Overwhelming force still causes knockback while sudden acceleration does not.

[Roderick]

Overwhelming Force converts the existing Knockback to Knockdown, and has a chance to add Knockdown of its own. Knockdown + Knockdown = Knockback, so when the proc fires, things get knocked back.

 

Also, you're testing on -8 enemies. Knockback gets scaled based on level difference. Even powers that are normally Knockdown can turn into Knockback when used on significantly lower level foes.

 

Also, I believe that they scale down the KB by different amounts. By putting them in something with massive KB, like Quasar, you might be left with enough KB that it still throws them.

Edited January 14, 2020 by Roderick

[cooljef4]

oh now that's interesting! knockdown+knockdown = knockback... i bet that's it!

[Redlynne]

On 5/12/2019 at 7:03 PM, Redlynne said:

ALL Knock* effects rely on the same magnitude system.

KnockDOWN is simply KnockBACK with a MAG of less than 1.  Most of the time this will be MAG 0.67 or MAG 0.75 by default if you go digging around in the data for powers (helpful link provided for the curious).

KnockBACK is simply KnockBACK with a MAG of 1 or greater.  Most of the time this will be MAG 1.25 or greater.

KnockUP is simply KnockBACK with the vector for the Knock direction changed.  Instead of being "away from caster" it is instead "away from down/ground" ... that's the only difference.  It is, however, a distinctly different function call from the powers database, even though it uses the same MAG of Knock system as the previous two options.

 

ANY Knock* MAG of below 1 is what Players consider to be a KnockDOWN (because that's what it "looks like" to a Player).

ANY Knock* MAG of 1 or more will "move" a target from its original location (dramatically more in cases of increased MAG).

This is the reason why you can take a Level 50 PC into Atlas Park and "golf" Level 1 Hellions with a KnockDOWN power ... because the level differential (50 vs 1) multiplies the MAG of the KnockDOWN so much that it becomes a KnockBACK effect (because the MAG gets modified to be (much?) greater than 1).

 

Observe ...

Air Superiority ... is a 0.75 KnockUP effect.

Levitate in Mind Control ... is a 12.463 KnockUP effect.

 

Both of these powers "throw $Target into the air" because they are KnockUP effects.  The only difference between them as far as KnockUP goes is the MAG.

Air Superiority "flips" the $Target in place, but they don't really go anywhere, because the MAG is (supposed to be) below 1.  Consequently, far too many people interpret this as a KnockDOWN when it's actually a "low power" KnockUP effect.

Levitate will "toss" the $Target into the air with a pretty decent hang time, because the MAG is in excess of 1 (by a good bit).  If you slot Levitate with Knockback enhancers, you'll increase the "loft" distance of the power.

Don't believe me?  Look at the City of Data reference links I've provided here.

 

 

This is just one of those things that everyone "thinks they know" ... when in fact they don't actually know what's going on under the (game mechanical) hood.