mrfreedom Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 Peacebringers realistic buff. Going to use base numbers for the simple fact they are easier to show @ a level 50 toon. We also won’t be showing any resistance. I don’t wanna math that. At any time you math wizards out there can help me if I screw up. Thanks!! (also some numbers are rounded up) DPAT= Damage per activation time which = base damage / activation time = DPAT Proposal 1. Change to Incandescent strike. Melee modifier of 0.85 Current Values. Incandescent Strike. 3.3 activation time 168 damage base. DPAT = 51 672 damage at 400% DPAT = 204 Dropping Incandescent Strike to 2.5 Activation time 2.5 Activation time DPAT = 67.2 672 Damage at 400% DPAT = 268 Even buffing it to 2.5 still doesn’t make it as good as Radiant strike So lets make some changes 1. 3.3 activation time 300 damage base DPAT = 91 1200 damage at 400% DPAT = 364 2. 2.5 activation time 225 damage base DPAT = 90 900 damage at 400% DPAT = 360 Radiant Strike 1.07 activation time 92.5 damage base DPAT = 86.5 370 damage at 400% DPAT = 345 So to make Incanstrike at least better (as it should be) than Rad strike, I propose one of the two changes above. I lean to number 2 to keep top end down of Incan strike. To give this all perspective. I am going to show the numbers for a scrapper, stalkers, and brutes doing incan strike (we don’t want PBers to be over buffed. At least I don’t) If a scrapper could use these attacks. Melee Modifier = 1.125 So to get these numbers I had to do this math. Remember I am not using decimal points. But a blaster which melee modifier is 1 does 198 base damage So 168.77 * .15 = 25.3155 +168.77 = 194.0855 But because of all the decimals it really is 198 Then you times that by 1.125 (scrapper modifier) = 223 OR real math is 1.125 + .15 = 1.275 over a pber. 168 * 1.275 = 214 (missing 8 damage due to decimal points which is one reason why I am rounding) But we will go with real number of 223 Scrapper numbers Incandescent Strike. Current. 3.3 activation time 223 base damage DPAT 67.5 1115 damage at 500% DPAT 338 The ability to CRIT. Stalker numbers Melee Modifier of 1.0 Incandescent Strike. Current. 3.3 AT 198 base damage DPAT 60 990 damage at 500% DPAT 300 You can make the ability Crit. But I assume since it is so high damage, only extra damage would be applied. So my proposed buff makes it so Peacebringers have 1 ability that will do more damage than if scrappers had Incandescent strike in its CURRENT form. All of this just to make it better than Radiant Strike. (Perhaps Rad strike needs a nerf?? Will get more into that later) Scrappers have no equivalent attack and Stalkers have Total Focus which is. Total Focus 3.3 AT 203.5 base damage DPAT 62 1017.5 damage at 500% DPAT 308 Crit but does extra damage and not double damage. The closest Scrapper attack is Devastating Blow from RAD but this would be closer to energy transfer. And for comparison, we will do a Brute. Brute damage mod is .75 so Incan strike does 198 at 1.0. Then you times that by .75 = 148.5 Incandescent Strike 3.3 AT 148.5 base damage DPAT 45 1039 Damage at 700% DPAT 315 So even the buffs make it better than if a Brute had it in Current form. But let's check a few brute abilities. So total focus is down right = to Incan strike for a brute. But KO blow at 2.23 AT is still way better than Incandescent strike. Brute’s KO blow. 2.23 AT 148.5 Base damage DPAT 66.3 1039 Damage at 700% DPAT 466 So Phew, that’s a lot of numbers. What does it all mean???? The max damage can never be changed. That is max. Enhancements, Fulcrum Shift, and Incarns can never get that number higher.<- (I think)-> But what can is -res. Perhaps there is something wrong with 3.3 AT abilities. This is probably caused by recharge, IOs and incarns. Another discussion. So what do we do? How do we really fix the issue with Peacebringers. Proposal 2. Raise the damage cap to 450% What this will do is allow top end damage to be slightly higher than it currently is. I will show here, 400% and 450% at current values and propose change to Incan strike Current Values. Incandescent Strike. 3.3 activation time 168 damage base. DPAT = 51 672 damage at 400% DPAT = 204 756 damage at 450% DPAT = 229 Radiant Strike 1.07 activation time 92.5 damage base DPAT = 86.5 370 damage at 400% DPAT = 345 416 damage at 450% DPAT = 389 Dropping Incandescent Strike to 2.5 Activation time 2.5 Activation time DPAT = 67.2 672 Damage at 400% DPAT = 268 756 Damage at 450% DPAT = 302 So damage cap doesn’t seem to fix the issue of 3.3 activated attacks. Still far from being as good as Rad strike. The proposed changes from above. 1. 3.3 activation time 300 damage base DPAT = 91 1200 damage at 400% DPAT = 364 1350 damage at 450% DPAT = 409 Ok so Incan is getting a little out of control just to make it better than Rad strike if we leave Activation time at 3.3 2. 2.5 activation time 225 damage base DPAT = 90 900 damage at 400% DPAT = 360 1013 damage at 450% DPAT = 405.2 These numbers look a lot better. So this changes to hit as hard as Brutes KO blow with slightly less DPAT but doesn’t come near the stalkers/scrappers numbers and making Incan Strike better than Rad strike. Remember this is with current melee scale of 0.850 Also note, this will slightly increase all other top end damage as well. So this would not only be a buff across the board, but make melee feel a bit rewarding top end and team play with buffs. Besides incandescent strike, this change really won’t change solo peacebringers at all. It will only change Incan to make it worth using at all. Kinda strange huh. (UNLESS you eat reds solo. Then yeah, it will change your damage) Proposal 3 This will include the change to Incan strike and change melee modifier to 1.0 in human form 400% and 450% damage. This is where I am scared of the overbuff coming from. This will change base damage across all melee attacks and top end damage. 1.0 Melee scaling buff. (with () around .85 melee mod) Current Values. Incandescent Strike. 3.3 activation time 198 damage base. (168) DPAT = 60 (51) 792 damage at 400% (672) DPAT = 240 (204) 891 damage at 450% (756) DPAT = 270 (259) Radiant Strike 1.07 activation time 109 damage base (92.5) DPAT = 101 (86.5) 436 damage at 400% (416) DPAT = 407 (345) 490 damage at 450% (490) DPAT = 458 (389) Dropping Incandescent Strike to 2.5 Activation time 2.5 Activation time 198 Base Damage (168) DPAT = 79.2 (67.2) 792 Damage at 400% (672) DPAT = 317 891 Damage at 450% DPAT = 356 So raising the melee mod helps a bit, but still 100 DPAT higher than incan strike. I took out the high base damage from other change because I felt like that was getting out of So if we use this from above and keep numbers at 225, you can see with the scale jumping to 1.0, rad strike becomes better than the first proposed change to inc strike. Wow what gives here. What do we do. Now make incan hit harder? It would then blow apart KO blow from Brutes. SO I don’t want that. Incandescent Strike 2.5 activation time 225 damage base DPAT = 90 900 damage at 400% DPAT = 360 1013 damage at 450% DPAT = 405.2 So how do we fix this mess we have made ourselves. This is where I propose a slight nerf to Rad strike. Upping the melee made the base higher. In the name of balance and keeping PBer competitive but not over buffing them. I would make incan as above with the 2.5 AT and 225 base damage. This is the change I would make to rad strike under the 1.0 melee scale. Radiant Strike 1.07 activation time 100 damage base (92.5) DPAT = 93 (86.5) 400 damage at 400% (416) DPAT = 373 (345) 450 damage at 450% (490) DPAT = 421 (389) To me this looks better. Sure rad strike still does a little better but brings Incandescent strike into competitive numbers. For clarification also. Solar Flare (human form) @ 1.0 melee (0.85) 2.1 AT 79 Damage base (67) DPAT = 38 316 Damage at 400% (268) DPAT = 150 355 Damage at 450% (301.5) DPAT = 169 Good solid buff without overdoing anything. So I really like this. It’s a solid buff to melee all around. Even cross punch would benefit from this. I would do the buff/nerf to Rad strike. Not give it the full 1.0 melee base damage and change it to 100 which would be up from 92.5. Seeing the math here played out, I would like to see melee scale up to 1 and damage cap up to 450. It keeps them behind the Melee ATs but makes them slightly more competitive in the end. ****NOTE**** White dwarf form would only receive a buff from 450% damage cap and nothing else. They are already at the 1.0 Melee scale. Ranged Damage. Ohh my. Ohh my. Ok we got melee fleshed out, but range damage is absolutely garbage. Here is where things will get tricky. We need to buff range damage but keep the AoE down. I think their AoE is in a good spot so things may get tricky here. Base damage buffs is where I think “The buff is needed” for Peacebringers. This includes the inside of Nova form. So first we need to decide on what is wrong with ranged damage. The ranged damage modifier for PBer is a little lower than melee in human form, 0.8 but increases to 1.2 inside of Nova. The only attack this makes a difference with is Glinting Eye. I believe the base numbers you see in game/mids is the .8 modifier for the Nova attacks. So this means when you shift, the base goes up. (theory) if not, this is the reason why some attacks feel lackluster in nova. These will be the attacks I use for comparison. I understand (besides Glinting eye) the attacks ARE different (kinda). Gleaming blast 1.67 AT 73 Damage Base 44 DPAT 292 @ 400% damage cap 175 DPAT 328.5 @ 450% damage cap 197 DPAT Nova Blast 1.5 AT 96.5 Base number is 67 (in human form**) 64 DPAT 386 @ 400 damage cap 257 DPAT 434.25 @ 450% damage cap 289.5 DPAT **You find the number this way, or at least I did. (67 * 0.2 = 13.4 then 13.4 + 67 = 80.4 (this would be a 1.0 modifier) then, 80.4 * 1.2 = 96.5) This is correct I think. Math people fix me!!!!!! Ok so what am I getting at here. To me the two attacks are the same. While the one in nova does good damage, it feels “nerfed” at the base damage to not benefit all of nova’s 1.2 range mod. So where does this stack up in terms of ranged damage??? This is the hardest ST punch a Bright Nova can do. It only compares to Power Blast (t2 energy blaster) . It would be slightly better than that attack. I am speaking about the buffed version of Nova Blast that I will be showing. This is where the discussion of Theory comes into play. While my melee brings them closer to melee ATs (but still far behind besides incan strike) Should Peacebringers best ST range attack only compared to a blasters starting ability? My answer to this is no. The human form blast I think is absolutely fine. Maybe tug the bottom end up a little bit to 85 damage base. (remember this would also change Nova’s blast base. OR, raising the human ranged modifier to 0.85. Which would still only make it slightly better than Power Blast. In Nova form, their best attack should be somewhere in between blasters starting attack and their best hit outside of snipers. So energy is closest I can compare with this. Power Blast base damage is 102 and Power Burst base damage is 132.6. Energy Blaster’s Power Burst Blaze 2.0 AT 1.0 AT 132.6 Base damage 170.5 Base damage + the DoT Recharge 10s Recharge 10s 66.3 DPAT 170.5 DPAT 663 @ 500% damage 852.5 @ 500% 331.5 DPAT 852.5 DPAT Nova Blast Current 1.5 AT 96.5 Base number Recharge 4s 64 DPAT 386 @ 400 damage cap 257 DPAT 434.25 @ 450% damage cap 289.5 DPAT Proposed buff to Nova Blast as follows. Nova Blast 1.5 AT 105 Damage base (would be 73 in human) Recharge 4s 70 DPAT 420 @ 400% damage cap 280 DPAT 472.5 @ 450% damage cap 315 DPAT Or slightly more buffed Nova Blast 1.5 AT 112 Damage base Recharge 4s 75 DPAT 448 @ 400% 299 DPAT 504 @ 450% 336 DPAT (I think this one would be the way to go) While you can cast 2x the amount of Nova Blast, end game Power Burst and Blaze are going to benefit from +recharge way more than Nova Blast can and those numbers get quite close to each other. I think somewhere around 1.2s for Nova Blast and 2s for Power burst and Blaze. So just a blaster using those abilities will still out do a Peacebringer. So where am I going with all of this?? Every attack inside Bright Nova base damage needs to be adjusted higher. It doesn’t have to be a lot, but Nova lacks the AoE punch and ST punch this form needs. I know I said watch out for AOE damage, that’s in human form. AoE is quite okay in human form. So In summary of Ranged damage on a Peacebringer. Since this one is a little harder to show. Raise Human form range modifier from 0.80 to 0.85 or 0.90 Raising the damage cap to 450% helps the end game Peacebringer. Buffing all the base damage by 15% - 20% inside Bright Nova ****Note, this change would make Gleaming Bolt hit slightly harder in White Dwarf form. What about White Dwarf?? IF human form got buffed from .85 melee modifier to 1. and .80 ranged modifier to .85, I would adjust White Dwarfs melee modifier to 1.05 or 1.1. So what do you do? I understand that all Peacebringers and Warshades only have 1 ability they take with them to Dwarf or Nova forms. My suggestion for Dwarf is to allow 2 abilities to come to Dwarf form. Gravitic Emanation for Black Dwarf WS, remove to knockback and make it knockdown with a base of 20 make cone wider. And for White dwarf it would be Pulsar and add a minor DMG PbAOE energy damage base of 20. But this would allow soft control. Suggestions to make dwarf forms more rewarding would also be great!!! SO the overall Proposed buff here for the TLDR crowd. Human form Melee Modifier change from 0.85 to 1.0 Raise damage cap from 400% to 450% Adjust Incandescent strike Activation time from 3.3 to 2.5 and adjust the base damage to be higher to make it comparable to Radiant Strike. (I assume make the animation faster too) If Melee Modifier changes, I wouldn’t give Radiant Strike the full swap. I would only let it go to 100 not 109. This helps control Incandescent Strike top end damage and making Radiant Strike stronger, but allowing Incan Strike to be competitive with it. Buff Ranged modifier from 0.80 to either 0.85 or 0.90 Adjust the base damage attack inside Bright Nova by 15-20% Add 1 more ability in White Dwarf form In closing, I think they need all of these buffs. It would still keep them behind Ranged ATs damage and Melee Ats damage but make them a bit more competitive while teamed and slightly better when they are solo. I would assume if this was the case for Peacebringers, Warshades would get the same attention. If someone who knows more about WS helps me, I can do something similar. Please help me if any area is unclear. Please help me if my math was wrong. And thank you for reading this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicoliy Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 I need to give this proper time and look at the numbers, but overall I like your approach. If we get a time in the light on test server I think these are the conversations we will want to facilitate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfreedom Posted February 19, 2020 Author Share Posted February 19, 2020 As some has stated. Keeping them at 400% damage may be the best move. To help prevent them from power creeping to the levels of blasters scrappers etc. I say meet in the middle and go 425% 😛 50 minutes ago, nicoliy said: I need to give this proper time and look at the numbers, but overall I like your approach. If we get a time in the light on test server I think these are the conversations we will want to facilitate. Also thanks for taking the time to read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Alex Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 like it .. also like to add and i have been saying this from live.. our powers animation root us too long.. after each attack there is a .3 sec pause.. its so apparent now after playing more fluid blaster sets.. that fix would go a long way. Also maybe our powers can do two debuffs.. like pb get -def -hp.. and ws get slow -rechrg IRON ASCENSION - ALL HUMAN PB IRON-WIDOW - WIDOW IRON BLADE - PSI/NINJA BLASTER IRON RAIN - WATER/MA BLASTER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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