Please fix mastermind GOTO commands

[TheSpiritFox]

The previous goto commands were preferable to what we have now. Locking melee pets into one location with goto commands so they can't move makes the goto command functionally useless for all pets with melee abilities. Follow is sub optimal pet behavior, it allows no real control over minions which is antithesis to the class. Goto is how we keep pets in an area for supremacy, how we move pets to solid cone positioning, how we keep them out of the way of teammates. But locking the goto commands to a single location scerews up any set with melee pets. Demons, thugs, ninjas, and necro all suffer from these changes. 

[nzer]

I agree with this

[ScarySai]

 

On 2/21/2020 at 12:46 PM, TheSpiritFox said:

Demons, thugs, ninjas, and necro all suffer from these changes

Can't speak for Ninja or Necro, but the changes absolutely do not cause the bolded sets to "suffer."

Edited February 24, 2020 by ScarySai

[TheSpiritFox]

1 hour ago, ScarySai said:

 

Can't speak for Ninja or Necro, but the changes absolutely do not cause the bolded sets to "suffer."

Yeah they do. Alot of Demon prince and about all of bruiser's dps comes from melee range abilities. The old goto let them run into range to use those abilities, the new goto locks them stationary causing a severe lag or a complete absence of melee ability DPS. It affects thugs worse than demons because a ton of your DPS comes from a melee T3 and that melee T3 is now effectively useless with that command, but the demon prince loses his ability to use his ice sword, PBAOE attack, and stomp. The only way to use the bruiser at this point is to create an individual targeting macro for him, or to put him in aggressive follow while the rest of the pets are in goto mode so that he actually picks and attacks targets. Locking a pet with melee abilities to one single location with a command universal among all masterminds is a serious design flaw in the new changes. It;s just WORSE for ninjas, necro, and beasts, because those are more melee centered than the other sets. I actually forgot to put beasts on there. 

Edited February 24, 2020 by TheSpiritFox

[ScarySai]

7 minutes ago, TheSpiritFox said:

Yeah they do. Alot of Demon prince and about all of bruiser's dps comes from melee range abilities. The old goto let them run into range to use those abilities, the new goto locks them stationary causing a severe lag or a complete absence of melee ability DPS. It affects thugs worse than demons because a ton of your DPS comes from a melee T3 and that melee T3 is now effectively useless with that command, but the demon prince loses his ability to use his ice sword, PBAOE attack, and stomp. The only way to use the bruiser at this point is to create an individual targeting macro for him, or to put him in aggressive follow while the rest of the pets are in goto mode so that he actually picks and attacks targets. Locking a pet with melee abilities to one single location with a command universal among all masterminds is a serious design flaw in the new changes. It;s just WORSE for ninjas, necro, and beasts, because those are more melee centered than the other sets. I actually forgot to put beasts on there. 

1: It only 'locks' them if you don't change orders after giving them a destination. 

 

2: The melee pets do not need goto to work properly, at all. That's total nonsense.

 

Sounds like a micromanaging failure to me, go-to functions as a 'go to and stay here' command now. I've had zero issues with the bruiser or demons. 

[TheSpiritFox]

2 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

1: It only 'locks' them if you don't change orders after giving them a destination. 

 

2: The melee pets do not need goto to work properly, at all. That's total nonsense.

 

Sounds like a micromanaging failure to me, go-to functions as a 'go to and stay here' command now. I've had zero issues with the bruiser or demons. 

1) Changing their orders to follow after using goto causes a lag in their target acquisition, and if you are counting on the alpha to pull them out of defensive mode they often just sit there and don't attack, if you switch them to offensive mode your bodyguard count goes down one and they still can sit there well into the engagement, in team settings possibly not attacking at all before the group is dead. 

2) Goto is useful for pet positioning and as you can build a number of pets to tank instead of the mastermind and take the alpha (desirable for any MM secondary without mez protection which is most of them) and having to set up extra macros to control melee pets only when goto used to work fine for all of them for basic positioning is a step backwards in pet control

3) 

Scroll down to the dev response. They agree with me, not you, and this thread is a reminder that this needs to be looked at. 

 

4) You're kinda an arrogant dick to turn this into "you don't know how to play your class" 

[biostem]

Why can't you issue your goto defensive command, then send an attack defensive command once they're where you want them?

[ScarySai]

3 minutes ago, TheSpiritFox said:

4) You're kinda an arrogant dick to turn this into "you don't know how to play your class" 

Not really, you exaggerated the problem in such a way that it sounded like you didn't know how to use the command properly.

 

The command has flaws, but you went above and beyond to exaggerate the issue.

[nzer]

5 hours ago, ScarySai said:

Not really, you exaggerated the problem in such a way that it sounded like you didn't know how to use the command properly.

 

The command has flaws, but you went above and beyond to exaggerate the issue.

Their description of the problem is perfectly accurate: goto used to mean "go to this area," and now it means "go to this spot and don't move," which renders melee pets useless unless something is standing directly next to them. You can argue all you want about whether the current goto behavior is useful, but at the end of the day the previous behavior was useful too, and is no longer possible.

 

I also found your response arrogant and unnecessarily combative, and doubling down isn't helping.

5 hours ago, biostem said:

Why can't you issue your goto defensive command, then send an attack defensive command once they're where you want them?

Bodyguard mode works with defensive goto, it does not work with defensive attack my target. Also, if you do this with a melee pet I'm pretty sure they'll revert to follow after they kill the target, meaning a significant amount of micromanagement is required if what you want them to do is stay near a point and kill nearby things.

[Midnight Guard]

On 2/24/2020 at 11:06 PM, ScarySai said:

Not really, you exaggerated the problem in such a way that it sounded like you didn't know how to use the command properly.

 

The command has flaws, but you went above and beyond to exaggerate the issue.

He is not exaggerating. These situations occur, they are facts of the issue. He is being specific. Making this observation doesn't add anything beyond effectively stating you don't care. You also omitted really trying to break down _why_ it sounded like a management "failure", implying perhaps you cannot - in which case SpiritFox just has more information on his table than you. We're all just trying to improve the game with science here.

 

This issue needs to be fixed. There is already a workaround that meets the needs of both parties; i.e. allowing pets to move 'a little' within their Go-To spots, as outlined by the dev.

Edited February 28, 2020 by Midnight Guard

[ScarySai]

20 minutes ago, Midnight Guard said:

He is not exaggerating. These situations occur, they are facts of the issue. He is being specific. Making this observation doesn't add anything beyond effectively stating you don't care. You also omitted really trying to break down _why_ it sounded like a management "failure", implying perhaps you cannot - in which case SpiritFox just has more information on his table than you. We're all just trying to improve the game with science here.

 

This issue needs to be fixed. There is already a workaround that meets the needs of both parties; i.e. allowing pets to move 'a little' within their Go-To spots, as outlined by the dev.

There's a miscommunication here: I understand the command was broken and a fix is incoming, hence why I'm not really discussing that - the fix for that is coming. I took issue with him phrasing it in such a way that it 'crippled' demons/thugs. Demons and thugs work just fine without the command and are not 'suffering' at all. The impact was exaggerated there, full stop.

 

I am not against the fix that's incoming at all.

[nzer]

1 hour ago, ScarySai said:

I took issue with him phrasing it in such a way that it 'crippled' demons/thugs.

They didn't phrase it that way...

[ScarySai]

3 minutes ago, nzer said:

They didn't phrase it that way...

Disagree, but it's irrelevant either way, now.