Controllers, Old School and PETS

[Saarthalian]

So I've been thinking on this for quite a while. I was never, ever happy with the nerf made to ALL CONTROLLER pets before hte release of masterminds (an effort by NcSoft to no doubt push their new pet AI system on us.)

 

Truth be told, the game hasn't been the same for me since. I loved the pets in this game because no other game did it right. The imps made you feel like a fire lord of doom. Having 2-3 (even just a double stack on pets would be efficient enough to make it FEEL like a worthwhile class to solo to 32 with.) They don't have to be the end-all game makers like they use to be. 15 imps is too many. 5-10 is more than plenty.

 

Heck instead of even double stacking, just double the numbers on some (I'd say honestly 8 imps would feel plenty. 6 even. But every other Controller should have at least 2.)

 

This would definitely increase farming speed, but not enough to create a monster out of the already nerfed class. I've just never enjoyed them the same. CoH had it right initially, and as an avid pet-based player character, Ultima Online was the only game before this one to do it best.

 

I want this to be open for discussion, critique and of course a way to figure out how to do this and get it balanced.

 

Devs. This is the ONE major gripe i've had about this game was the stupid nerf to the pets. This was the one class that EARNED the pets they had. Can we change it since the game is FINALLY in the right hands?

 

Share your thoughts, your ideas, your gripes and so on!

 

I've missed this community.

[srmalloy]

Yes, let's go all the way back to the way pets were originally, where you could double and occasionally triple-stack your pets... and they all die and have to be resummoned every time you go through a door or up an elevator. If you're going to hand controllers back a big buff like that, put back the penalty associated with it.

[Zumberge]

You mention "all Controller pets" but speak exclusively of fire imps and bring up farming speed.  If you're not careful people might wonder if, despite your clearly noble intentions in asking for a buff to such a weak feature that's rarely ever taken on Controllers despite being their main focus, that there's some ulterior motive behind this desire for revanchism.

[Zep]

They did make imps and other pets stronger to compensate for the lower numbers. More HP more Damage.

 

I had a lvl 50 fire/storm and lvl 48 fire/kin on the old servers. The Fire/Kin could get 20+ imps out at times. Solo this was nice, they would just swarm things, take all the agro and chew everything to death (specially with fulcrum shift).

 

The down sides, 10-20 imps get in the way of your team mates. Tanks, scrappers, all the melee ppl have trouble moving around. Missions with levels are a pain because every door you lose all your pets (well except for the various times they were trying to get pets perm and they would go hostile after going through a door). With the old pets you had to cast your pet literally every 45 seconds or less to keep numbers up.

 

I remember the old days fondly with my armies of imps swarming evil doers - one of those lab maps my fire/kin manages to get the haste buff 4x from exploding lab equipment. I dont know how many imps he had - far too many to count - it was awesome.

 

Swarms of imps are great control too, with so many of them on the field it was hard for the mobs to get agro on a player or even move much.

 

All that said plus fond memories I dont want to go back. I have time to do more then stare at my imp/pet button to make sure I am casting it as soon as it comes up. I have time to look around and effectively use all my other powers too.

 

One exploding nemesis boss or pretty much any other half baked aoe would toast all the old imps leaving you scrambling to recover -- the new ones are much hardier.

 

I know I speak mostly Imps, the controller I had pets with during the pre controller nerfs. 

 

The controller nerf/buff did much more then just change pets though....

[Saarthalian]

I did mention and speak specifically of imps. But I was looking for more of a solution to a potential change to what ALL controllers use to be.

 

Instead of even pet stacking, why not change things to just have the spell itself summon more than one variance of themselves. (Gravity/ice/etc) and change the limit to 5-6 on imps. This way they (all controllers) still feel like the pets were earned, but are not the primary source of being over powered. Of course things might need to scale down a bit (imp strength so they're over all just 150% stronger and not 200% because of double numbers.)

 

Other controllers already can't touch fire imps, I know this. I'm not speaking specifically of fire trollers. I am speaking of all controllers. I'd love to have CRITIQUE that adds to the conversation so please add in with any ideas that may make this potentially viable (and more fun for the old school trollers.) But most of my time was spent on my fire/rad. I loved whipping out my gravity guy for TF's and just all around CC.

 

This isn't a "Make controllers God's again." - And it's not for the sake of having a class to farm with. I have my farming character.

 

What I'm speaking of is nostalgic and enjoyment.

I miss running around with 2-3 jack frosts though, and even though it was slow, it was strong. The effort put in to leveling the class was partially worth the pain because the pets truly completed them. Icing on the cake so to speak. And as some one who has played pet classes in every MMO out there. Ultima Online is the only other game to have done it right.

 

(Also to speak the truth - IT WAS fun having 15 imps running around. But that's not the goal. That would just cause problems like no tomorrow.)

 

I loved having 2-3 gravitational orbs and / or 2 phantasms strumming around. There are ways to make this work, make it fun without ruining the game.

 

Honestly this was just the period I feel controllers were at their peak in enjoyment.

 

Tanks were as well but the aggro cap is kind of necessary for obvious reasons. Haha.

 

@ZEP, I do agree with you. But like I said I'm shooting for more nostalgia without overpowering. Even if fire trollers only saw an extra imp or two, the other controllers would benefit greatly from having the extra dps/control. Especially for people who don't focus end game and just enjoy the game/leveling alts and so on. -- Still though, this isn't just a focus on fire imps. I'm looking for ALL controller input. Anyone who has primary experience on another troller role. Mine has only been Ice/Gravity/Fire and Illusion (Barely) by memory. So that's what I'm speaking on behalf of.

[Saarthalian]

Well, was hoping to have more support for trollers on this.

 

Shucks.

 

Was rolling with a grav and ice controller the other day who was swimming in nostalgia of having 2 pets with them. (2x JFrost/Grav singularity?)

 

A solution instead of stacking is just enhance the number on base summon (say 4-5 imps instead of 10? MM's have 6 pets or more.) And JF/Phantasms etc can be popped at 2-3 (even if weakened/strengthened for balance.)

 

Guess dreams of seeing this class return to it's glory of enjoyment (Before IO's and so on) will have to just remain dead. Can't even stimulate conversation on the topic even if it's just left at that. Theories and ideas.

 

So this'll be my last response unless some one else responds. Not gonna keep bumping it.

 

o/

[kelly Rocket]

God no. Two Fluffies would be so OP I can't even...

[Saarthalian]

Thanks for your... thoughtful post.

 

A solution to that problem would be by reducing pet damage (50%) since their numbers are doubling. Or would be doubled. Still slightly stronger due to number count but it would definitely make the classes feel like they use to without making them crazy strong due to the new incarnate or IO stuff.

 

 

 

 

[Erydanus]

As a hard core grav/rad on live, I think having a 2nd copy of a singularity out would be supremely OP like, y'all can keep your Lore pets and I'll take Second Singularity for $100, Alex. (I'm planning on Northern Lights for that reason ahahaha....)

 

Whenever you think, "This is good but I'd like JUST A LITTLE more" it usually means the balance is right on. And that's how I've felt on all the controllers I played including also Fire and Illusion.

[kelly Rocket]

Thanks for your... thoughtful post.

 

A solution to that problem would be by reducing pet damage (50%) since their numbers are doubling. Or would be doubled. Still slightly stronger due to number count but it would definitely make the classes feel like they use to without making them crazy strong due to the new incarnate or IO stuff.

The OP-ness has nothing to do with damage. It's that most controller pets are Controllers, and their CC stacks with yours.

[Erydanus]

Controller pet damage is set where it is because they don't have containment. It's a scale up to give them that comparable damage.