Federated Servers + Centralized Character Database Participation?

[Skyhawke]

Apparently you didn't leave...

 

[jubakumbi]

The reddit post I linked to and the general attitude outside Homecoming seems to be that because HC doesn't want to devote resources to doing this, that they won't cooperate when it's done. I think a "Hey, if you get it working, we'll think about it" would set a lot of minds at ease.

 

And I think bringing these things uo the way you did, leaning HARD on the 'fear' about 'character safety', does nothing but stir up ore angst and create more misinformation, all the while under the guise of 'trying to to help'.

 

In the us-vs-them ANY sort of question like this, about VAPORWARE no less, does nnothing but sow angst.

 

Frankly, I think your purpose is to sow FUD.

[Marstead]

The reddit post I linked to and the general attitude outside Homecoming seems to be that because HC doesn't want to devote resources to doing this, that they won't cooperate when it's done. I think a "Hey, if you get it working, we'll think about it" would set a lot of minds at ease.

 

And I think bringing these things uo the way you did, leaning HARD on the 'fear' about 'character safety', does nothing but stir up ore angst and create more misinformation, all the while under the guise of 'trying to to help'.

 

In the us-vs-them ANY sort of question like this, about VAPORWARE no less, does nnothing but sow angst.

 

Frankly, I think your purpose is to sow FUD.

 

That bums me out that you think that :-(. I'm really just interested in holding onto my character, no matter what happens on which population server. I read this reddit thread and thought the idea was intriguing (create a way to prevent permanent data loss). I was frustrated with the sort of "us vs. them" attitude in it, and was hoping there was something in the works to make everybody happy. I assume character permanence is a real concern for everybody involved in this project on both the player and dev sides.

 

I've really been enjoying I25 and the Homecoming community so far. It sounds like everyone just wants to have fun in their own way.

[jubakumbi]

That bums me out that you think that :-(. I'm really just interested in holding onto my character, no matter what happens on which population server. I read this reddit thread and thought the idea was intriguing (create a way to prevent permanent data loss). I was frustrated with the sort of "us vs. them" attitude in it, and was hoping there was something in the works to make everybody happy. I assume character permanence is a real concern for everybody involved in this project.

 

Don't assume then. :)

 

No character in any MMO on the planet has the level of 'permenance' you are describing, it is vaporware, and to assume that 'all' players and developers want the same things is ... not reality.

 

There is no software development team on the planet that can create 'something in the works to make everybody happy.'

 

What you propagated was mis-information that is yet another 'dig' at the HC team for not loudly saying they are 'in the cliche' with the rest of the CoX server runners, that are generally trying to _compete_ for players right now, with HC and some of whom are outright spreading FUD.

 

So yeah, right now, with the temperature of the situation where it is, these constant 'dings' toward HC to make snap decisions to assuade frighted players that are only frightned because people spread FUD is really, really getting old fast.

[Marstead]

That bums me out that you think that :-(. I'm really just interested in holding onto my character, no matter what happens on which population server. I read this reddit thread and thought the idea was intriguing (create a way to prevent permanent data loss). I was frustrated with the sort of "us vs. them" attitude in it, and was hoping there was something in the works to make everybody happy. I assume character permanence is a real concern for everybody involved in this project.

 

Don't assume then. :)

 

No character in any MMO on the planet has the level of 'permenance' you are describing, it is vaporware, and to assume that 'all' players and developers want the same things is ... not reality.

 

There is no software development team on the planet that can create 'something in the works to make everybody happy.'

 

What you propagated was mis-information that is yet another 'dig' at the HC team for not loudly saying they are 'in the cliche' with the rest of the CoX server runners, that are generally trying to _compete_ for players right now, with HC and some of whom are outright spreading FUD.

 

So yeah, right now, with the temperature of the situation where it is, these constant 'dings' toward HC to make snap decisions to assuade frighted players that are only frightned because people spread FUD is really, really getting old fast.

 

My job is UAT/QA, so I totally get that there's no way to make everybody happy. I mentioned this in an earlier post, but gamers are very likely to ask "Why don't they just?" about everything. Why don't they just fix all the bugs? Why don't they just balance everything perfectly? You can do your best, but it can never be perfect.

 

But I guess the thrust of my original post is this: the basic idea (not the tone) in the linked thread sounds to me, as a layperson around these servers, to be an all-upside solution. If a layperson think something is all-upside, there's a good chance they're not understanding something about it and there's a reason it hasn't happened yet. I'm mostly curious what the reason is. I'm not sure my post would have been perceived in such a negative light if there wasn't such a "high temperature" on the issue, as you put it (that's a great way to describe it). I'm worried we've got two minority crowds of very squeaky wheels fighting each other loudly and creating the high temperature, and in the middle you have the majority of the playerbase that just wants to enjoy the game. I think a portion of that majority would like to have a reasoned discussion about the issue without contributing to the temperature, and another chunk would like everyone to just shut up about it (on the reasonable assumption that even talking about it, even at a reasonable volume, is keeping temperatures high). It feels socially unfixable. Is it better to let the reddit post happen and then not discuss it at all over here?

 

In other words, I read that post which asks Why don't they just? and wanted to know, yeah, why don't they just? I expect the reddit thread is oversimplifying the issue.

 

To your thing about not assuming; I totally get it, I know we're asking for a lot. I guess I'll rephrase my assumption: I assume that if you told most of the very-happy-to-be-playing-COH-again HC players that their characters would be wiped irrevocably tomorrow, over 90 or even 95% of them would be bummed by that, and that none of the developers would be happy to do it. I'm sure there are some pretty woke players who are in-tune with the impermanence of life and resurrected legal-adjacent fan servers and are able to just enjoy themselves in the moment, and I'm sure they're having the most fun out of everyone right now!

[jubakumbi]

To your thing about not assuming; I totally get it, I know we're asking for a lot. I guess I'll rephrase my assumption: I assume that if you told most of the very-happy-to-be-playing-COH-again HC players that their characters would be wiped irrevocably tomorrow, over 90 or even 95% of them would be bummed by that, and that none of the developers would be happy to do it. I'm sure there are some pretty woke players who are in-tune with the impermanence of life and resurrected legal-adjacent fan servers and are able to just enjoy themselves in the moment, and I'm sure they're having the most fun out of everyone right now!

 

But these kinds of questions, 'pushing a server runner against the wall' to make a decision 'right now' that will 'dictate' where the player chooses to play, IMO, do nothing but stir up angst.

They are impossible to answer accurately about vaporware.

 

Yet the mind of the gamer moves at the speed of a phone app.

As you note, 'they could just' is the battlecry of the uninformed.

 

Placing these kinds of pie-in-the-sky, vaporware, hope-based questions on Internet forums full of non-technical people, IMO, only stirs up FUD, because anyone not 'promising to be in the cliche' is now the 'bad guy'.

 

To ask the question, 'will HC consider this at some point' is fine, IMO.

 

Fear mongering that characters will get lost (all MMO characters get lost) if someone plays on the 'wrong' server is just spreading FUD.

The digital bits that make a character can be created on personal server at will.

There is no 'central trusted authority' to sign anything like this.

It would be trivial to hack.

And, it is currently vaporware.

 

IMO, hanging your hat on this 'hopeful idea' as the reason for choosing a server is .. naive.

 

Just my pennies.

[Crystal Dragon]

I'll be honest, I like this idea but having a centralized backup would open up a few threats that could potentially cause issues for all the communities, not just Homecoming itself. I think it's a good idea but having stronger security would be an absolute if such a thing were to be made proactively for all the COH servers in existence were this implemented.

[Marstead]

To ask the question, 'will HC consider this at some point' is fine, IMO.

 

IMO, hanging your hat on this 'hopeful idea' as the reason for choosing a server is .. naive.

 

If I could go back in time to edit my posts to ask that question alone, I would! I've already chosen Homecoming and I won't be going back on that decision. I don't think it's possible to discuss this idea/proposal without anyone thinking about character permanence; it's central to the post. I guess we can all try really hard not to mention it, though.

[The Fifth Horseman]

I'm sure there are some pretty woke players who are in-tune with the impermanence of life and resurrected legal-adjacent fan servers and are able to just enjoy themselves in the moment, and I'm sure they're having the most fun out of everyone right now!

Out of sight, out of mind. Most simply don't concern themselves with it and have fun actually playing rather than worrying about hypotheticals.

[justicebeliever]

The reddit post I linked to and the general attitude outside Homecoming seems to be that because HC doesn't want to devote resources to doing this, that they won't cooperate when it's done. I think a "Hey, if you get it working, we'll think about it" would set a lot of minds at ease.

 

And I think bringing these things uo the way you did, leaning HARD on the 'fear' about 'character safety', does nothing but stir up ore angst and create more misinformation, all the while under the guise of 'trying to to help'.

 

In the us-vs-them ANY sort of question like this, about VAPORWARE no less, does nnothing but sow angst.

 

Frankly, I think your purpose is to sow FUD.

 

That bums me out that you think that :-(. I'm really just interested in holding onto my character, no matter what happens on which population server. I read this reddit thread and thought the idea was intriguing (create a way to prevent permanent data loss). I was frustrated with the sort of "us vs. them" attitude in it, and was hoping there was something in the works to make everybody happy. I assume character permanence is a real concern for everybody involved in this project on both the player and dev sides.

 

I've really been enjoying I25 and the Homecoming community so far. It sounds like everyone just wants to have fun in their own way.

 

I didn't take your post that way - it's a legitimate question and forums are the place to ask them.  I think character permanence is important to a lot of players, especially now that they could go start their own server.  I've seen the posts across the forum asking for it. 

[ghost emoji]

I'm not sure how well importing and exporting characters could be implemented. If it's not a central thing, it could make it harder to deal with duplicate names or people editing their own files and "cheating". It sounds like it would take a lot of work and coordination between the different servers, which unfortunately doesn't sound very likely in the near future.

 

It would be great if we had a feature like this, though. It would certainly put people's minds at ease about our characters being lost if a server gets shut down.

[Dr. Gemini]

I think a "Hey, if you get it working, we'll think about it" would set a lot of minds at ease.

 

The problem with making even vague statements like that is, in the minds of gamers, everything you mention is a promise. Say the HC team make just such a statement and 6 months down the line someone comes up with something that purports to do what you're talking about. If HC doesn't immediately jump on the bandwagon you'll have another big hue and cry how they "broke their promise" and how this "proves they're out to get the other servers" and so on and so forth. If you've spent anytime on game forums you see that, one of the main reasons devs don't talk about future content until its nearly ready, doing so always bites them on the ass if they have to change or abandon the concept. I can guarantee you, after a statement like that, a year from now people will be angrily asking why the backup client isn't done and why hasn't the HC team gotten it out to us. Their minds can't most of that sentence, they will just read "We'll make one for you" instead.

 

Further, this kind of inter-server software is a fantasy. You have I24-based servers that seem to want to freeze that moment in time. I24 servers that want to expand in their own direction from that starting point. And this I25 server which intends to further expand and develop the game from there. As time goes on, the characters will become more and more difficult to integrate. You already have the problem of what happens to a character that is a Sentinel AT here, not to mention that I25 has more power proliferation than I24. Its really not in their best interests to agree to even consider this. All questions, no answers, except from people who would have no clue how to build it, but just think they do.

 

I know how you feel, I'd hate to lose my characters again. However, there's no point worrying about what I can't fix. You can set up your own private server and, effectively, export your characters to it through costume saves and just setting the characters levels/gear with the admin tools.

[Marstead]

I think a "Hey, if you get it working, we'll think about it" would set a lot of minds at ease.

 

The problem with making even vague statements like that is, in the minds of gamers, everything you mention is a promise. Say the HC team make just such a statement and 6 months down the line someone comes up with something that purports to do what you're talking about. If HC doesn't immediately jump on the bandwagon you'll have another big hue and cry how they "broke their promise" and how this "proves they're out to get the other servers" and so on and so forth. If you've spent anytime on game forums you see that, one of the main reasons devs don't talk about future content until its nearly ready, doing so always bites them on the ass if they have to change or abandon the concept. I can guarantee you, after a statement like that, a year from now people will be angrily asking why the backup client isn't done and why hasn't the HC team gotten it out to us. Their minds can't most of that sentence, they will just read "We'll make one for you" instead.

 

Further, this kind of inter-server software is a fantasy. You have I24-based servers that seem to want to freeze that moment in time. I24 servers that want to expand in their own direction from that starting point. And this I25 server which intends to further expand and develop the game from there. As time goes on, the characters will become more and more difficult to integrate. You already have the problem of what happens to a character that is a Sentinel AT here, not to mention that I25 has more power proliferation than I24. Its really not in their best interests to agree to even consider this. All questions, no answers, except from people who would have no clue how to build it, but just think they do.

 

I know how you feel, I'd hate to lose my characters again. However, there's no point worrying about what I can't fix. You can set up your own private server and, effectively, export your characters to it through costume saves and just setting the characters levels/gear with the admin tools.

 

Yeah, you raise a good point. I remember this being an issue back in the early days of Guild Wars 2. Josh Foreman, the Environment Dev, was really great because he spoke pretty freely on the forums about things they were considering. But the playerbase started interpreting his transparency as promises of things to come, and ArenaNet had to muzzle him, forcing him to filter posts through a community manager.

 

It's one of those things where I wish it weren't true, and I was hoping that the Homecoming community might be small/mature enough to *not* take things this way--but as the popularity of the game is exploding, I don't think we or the HC devs will have the luxury of discussing this as a small project.

 

In any case, I'm sure this thread has crossed some of their desks, which is all that really matters. If they can come up with something -- anything -- ever, that'd be great. If not, it's not a big deal.