Plant/Poison First Time Controller

[Oneofthe1d4]

How do all

 

Relative newcomer to COH, while I've played it on and off since Homecoming launched between severe alt addiction and not really being that great at picking up the MMO details to make for smoother play for any games I'm not especially savvy. But I'm getting back into it and trying to make a go of a decent controller.

 

I've checked a few of the existing threads for the same power pairing (and added them at the bottom of this post in case anyone stumbles into this and wants to save themselves a bit of searching). As far as I can tell this seems to be overall good advice for power picking

 

Powers to Skip;

Plant

Entangle - of the two available at startup it's not as good, though it might be a viable addition

Spore Burst - between confusion, DoT and procs they'll not be asleep long

Spirit Tree

 

Poison

Neurotoxic Breath - not a great area, other controlling effects are better

Elixer of Life

Antidote

Weaken (see DreadShinobi's posts below)

 

Other powers can be ignored too, these are almost definite skips though.

 

Other Pools to possibly grab powers from some of which may be removed on a respec at 50;

Speed - the ever popular Hasten

Fighting - Weave and Tough + the pre-req

Leadership - Assault and Tactics, maybe Maneuvers

Concealment - get Stealth for solo levelling. Skippable per the post below "skip stealth and just grab Super Speed.  Add the Celerity +Stealth IO and you can stealth most anything."

 

I'm ticking along slowly, while I've still not gotten the hang of farming influence I've got a couple of dozen million across various characters so can do a small measure of kitting out and my Stalker is at the point where I can farm Vazilhok Pollutant Plot for slightly shy of a Merit a minute whenever I have a spare 40 minutes or so which means getting the ATOs or other Merit based rewards is something I'm probably able to do for this Controller as a casual sideline whenever I want to put something on the computer to watch while murdering plague zombies.

 

I posted this thread because I wanted to check if there's any Plant/Poison or even just Controller specific advice I should be aware of especially for grouping so I do not drag others down. I'm already aware that in some cases I want powers that won't do damage to allow for Badge hunting which Poison supports quite nicely (as long as I do not go proc happy) and I am aware that when it comes to major bosses the actual status effects won't land with any real success.

 

Thanks in advance for any comments.

 

Poison specific guide

 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Oneofthe1d4
(found a non-Controller Poison guide)

[DreadShinobi]

There is a ton of information out there on poison because in the past it has been an often undervalued powerset, however the threads you have already looked at are all solid guidance. Frosticus has done much to put the 'poison sucks' mentality to bed, and anything he posts about playing a successful poisoneer should be taken as bible.

 

I can post my poison build but you've probably already seen it and many of the choices made in the build have some influence from @Frosticus slotting. Plant/Poison is excellent, very strong, much synergy, it won't let you down. My build is very endurance heavy, you will want to make use of external recovery buffs such as recovery serum, amplifiers, sg base buffs, etc. Using ageless may feel more comfortable to you playing the character but I pref having incan and so manage my endurance in other ways. 

 

This build doesn't use weaken, which is a very strong debuff, however I took frosticus's advice on skipping it with this build and haven't looked back. I do use weaken on my poison defenders. Some procs to consider that are not in this build are Superior Entomb absorb, a heavier proc load in Fissure (shift+right click fissure to see alternate slotting), regen tissue +regen, impervious skin +regen, and Power Transfer self heal. I would consider them in the order written, but each has a slot tax that may or may not be worthwhile to you.

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.1.25
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Plant Control
Secondary Power Set: Poison
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Stone Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Strangler -- Apc-Dam%(A), Apc-Dmg(3), GldJvl-Dam%(3), NrnSht-Dam%(5), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(5), GldNet-Dam%(7)
Level 1: Alkaloid -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(21), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(43), Prv-Heal/Rchg(46), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(50), Prv-Absorb%(50)
Level 2: Roots -- PstBls-Dam%(A), JvlVll-Dam%(7), TraoftheH-Dam%(13), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(15), Rgn-Dmg(15), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(17)
Level 4: Envenom -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A), ShlBrk-%Dam(21), TchofLadG-%Dam(23)
Level 6: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 8: Seeds of Confusion -- Ccp-Dam%(A), MlsIll-Dam%(9), SprOvrPrs-Rchg/Energy Font(9), CrcPrs-Conf%(11), Range-I(11), Range-I(13)
Level 10: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(46)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Ksm-ToHit+(48)
Level 14: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-ResDam%(17), Rct-Def/EndRdx(19)
Level 16: Elixir of Life -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A)
Level 18: Tactics -- GssSynFr--Build%(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(19)
Level 20: Boxing -- AbsAmz-Stun(A), AbsAmz-Stun/Rchg(34), AbsAmz-Acc/Stun/Rchg(34), AbsAmz-Acc/Rchg(34), AbsAmz-EndRdx/Stun(40)
Level 22: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 24: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(37)
Level 26: Carrion Creepers -- PstBls-Dam%(A), JvlVll-Dam%(27), ImpSwf-Dam%(27), ExpStr-Dam%(29), TraoftheH-Dam%(29), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(31)
Level 28: Paralytic Poison -- UnbCns-Dam%(A), GldNet-Dam%(31), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(31), NrnSht-Dam%(33)
Level 30: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Fly Trap -- ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(A), ExpRnf-Dmg/EndRdx(33), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(48)
Level 35: Poison Trap -- Arm-Dam%(A), Obl-%Dam(36), Erd-%Dam(36), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(36), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(37), SprWiloft-Rchg/Dmg%(37)
Level 38: Fissure -- PstBls-Acc/Dmg(A), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(39), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(39), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), PstBls-Dam%(40), FrcFdb-Rechg%(40)
Level 41: Seismic Smash -- Hct-Dam%(A), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(42), TchofDth-Dam%(42), GldStr-%Dam(43), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(43)
Level 44: Rock Armor -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(45), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(45), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(45)
Level 47: Venomous Gas -- HO:Enzym(A)
Level 49: Earth's Embrace -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- HO:Micro(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Heal(23), Pnc-Heal/+End(25), Mrc-Rcvry+(50)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(25), PrfShf-EndMod/Acc(46)
Level 50: Nerve Core Paragon 
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve 
Level 0: Portal Jockey 
Level 0: Task Force Commander 
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion 
Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Control Core Embodiment 
------------

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[Oneofthe1d4]

@DreadShinobi Thanks for that, especially the confirmation of the truths of the other threads and a warning about the Endurance dangers. 

 

If you don't mind me asking why not Weaken? Is it a case of the power not being worth it compared to other choices or not having the slot space to give Weaken the fleshing out it needs to be worth it? EDIT - answer to that found in the general Poison guide edited into the OP I believe.

 

Something you might also be able to shed light on for me. Should I be firing Envenom off every time it is on cooldown? I understand that the main target takes a stronger debuff compared to those afflicted for being nearby but what's the actual duration of the debuff, given it's not a toggle where there's a convenient way to tell when it's still going or not? If that's a "how do you not know that?" answer apologies for asking it but yes, I am that dim for these things. Maybe I should have my display adjusted to make it clearer but as default I am unsure when things are debuffed or not a lot of the time.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Oneofthe1d4

[DreadShinobi]

34 minutes ago, Oneofthe1d4 said:

If you don't mind me asking why not Weaken? Is it a case of the power not being worth it compared to other choices or not having the slot space to give Weaken the fleshing out it needs to be worth it?

 

1) Animation Time. 2.244s arcanatime. You have so much to spam as a plant/poison that there isn't really a gap in things to do where this animation time could be considered a 'filler' activity. 

2) That animation time does not actually deal damage and it can only take one damage proc (cloud senses), though if you do take the power and have the slots 6 pc cloud senses provides excellent set bonuses.

3) The debuffs from weaken don't actually make things die faster unless you are using it to prevent a creature from healing, like EB warwalker or a fire demon with healing flames, it can be very situational.

4) If something is held from a strangler cast it isn't going to heal anyways or cast anything that the -special from weaken will affect. This is why it is less valuable on a controller and more valuable on a defender that has less access to hard control.

5) It is a defensive debuff. Survivability is relative. If you're going to survive without casting weaken, why cast it? If the entire spawn is confused from SoC they're not attacking you or your allies so that mitigates the value of the -tohit and -dmg. It can be nice for AVs/GMs, I wouldn't cast it otherwise as a controller. 

6) -tohit and -dmg reduce the destructive power of your seeds of confusion. -tohit especially reduces the chance that the confused enemy spawn will actually hit eachother with their attacks. Remember that npc critters do not have a 95% chance to hit themselves like we do with our fancy accuracy enhancements. This can also be a playstyle decision. SoC with significant tohit debuffs acts more like an aoe stun than an aoe confuse. You may get slightly more xp per mob kill by debuffing them to the point that they cannot actually kill eachother while confused, but you are most definitely not getting better xp/time.

7) In comparison to the situational usage of weaken, envenom is Always! beneficial to apply. 

 

34 minutes ago, Oneofthe1d4 said:

Something you might also be able to shed light on for me. Should I be firing Envenom off every time it is on cooldown? I understand that the main target takes a stronger debuff compared to those afflicted for being nearby but what's the actual duration of the debuff, given it's not a toggle where there's a convenient way to tell when it's still going or not? If that's a "how do you not know that?" answer apologies for asking it but yes, I am that dim for these things. Maybe I should have my display adjusted to make it clearer but as default I am unsure when things are debuffed or not a lot of the time.

 

1) Envenom has a 30s duration. Most things are dead before you need to recast it. For hard targets like AVs/GMs you need to have a bit of an internal clock for Envenom so that you are not over-casting it or under-casting it. You can also look for the purple/orange debuff icon floating on the critter, but this may not be visible due to target size, your distance to the target, or the flurry of power fx fanning from your team members. It is better to just develop a rough 30s internal timer for envenom, but most of the time target is dead already.

2) If you hit target A with envenom they get the full debuff and anyone within 8 ft radius gets the 50% debuff. If you hit target B with envenom and target A is still within that 8 ft radius and not dead they will have both the full debuff from the first cast applied and the 50% debuff applied. This is especially nice for any AV with a minion near it - cast Envenom on the minion that is close to the AV so the AV gets the 50% debuff first before the minion dies then reapply envenom on the hard target.

 

Hope this helps.

Edited December 28, 2021 by DreadShinobi

[Oneofthe1d4]

@DreadShinobi Appreciate the detailed answers. I might pick up Secondary Mutation to try a version with Weaken simply because I do have a tendency to like trying powers from the main sets but I suspect even with Cloud Senses slotted it'll prove inferior based off your clear list of reasons I'll get myself hunting cash on the others to properly pick up some of the necessary gear.

[TheDahle]

16 hours ago, Oneofthe1d4 said:

Other Pools to possibly grab powers from some of which may be removed on a respec at 50;

Speed - the ever popular Hasten

Fighting - Weave and Tough + the pre-req

Leadership - Assault and Tactics, maybe Maneuvers

Concealment - get Stealth for solo levelling

 

 

Regarding your pool choices, you an skip stealth and just grab Super Speed.  Add the Celerity +Stealth IO and you can stealth most anything.  This allows you to pick up a different pool like Jumping for Combat Jumping that has a much lower End/Sec cost and offers some decent protection that doesn't cut in half when you engage.

[Oneofthe1d4]

@TheDahle thanks for that suggestion, edited it into the opening.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Oneofthe1d4

[DreadShinobi]

On 12/28/2021 at 2:57 PM, Oneofthe1d4 said:

 

 

Something you might also be able to shed light on for me. Should I be firing Envenom off every time it is on cooldown? I understand that the main target takes a stronger debuff compared to those afflicted for being nearby but what's the actual duration of the debuff, given it's not a toggle where there's a convenient way to tell when it's still going or not? If that's a "how do you not know that?" answer apologies for asking it but yes, I am that dim for these things. Maybe I should have my display adjusted to make it clearer but as default I am unsure when things are debuffed or not a lot of the time.

 

I wanted to add that it is very important to watch for envenom misses, because it inevitably will miss on average one in twenty times. It can be a good idea to have a combat chat tab visible that displays your hit rolls to check for misses on envenom. It can often be completely impossible to visually tell if the power is a hit or miss until you question why your damage is less than it should be. You can also monitor if achilles heel procs. 

 

The other thing I wanted to expand on about weaken is that one of the defining aspects of poison is that while envenom is something that gets casted on everything, ideally always before damage is dealt, casting envenom machine gun style on anything that hasn't tasted your poison, it is also the only thing you really need to continually keep up on because VG is a toggle, poison trap is a one second animation toe bomb, alkaloid is situational as needed spot healing, elixir is your uber rez, and otherwise outside of appropriate envenom spam your focus is on using your primary and ancillary powers to the best of your ability alongside a very flexible build path with poison that has many skippable powers that allow you to fully flesh out strong pool power choices.

 

Envenom->weaken->dps is just so much slower than envenom->dps. 

 

Poison is a fast, aggressive powerset, which weaken is not.

Edited December 30, 2021 by DreadShinobi

[Oneofthe1d4]

@Dread Shinobi

 

Thanks for that. I've been through a few Death From Belows and Task Forces and already gotten into the habit of shifting around to launch more Envenoms whenever it is off cooldown. While I was attempting to keep the 30 second timer going by and large it seems more expedient to just make sure I fire it off anytime it is off cooldown anyway to hit those who were missed and have the full debuff active on another target.

 

While Alkaloid and Elixer have not been vital they've been things I'm glad to have when I've used them. And as you warned it drinks Endurance, meaning I tend to have toggles off quite a bit when dealing with larger incoming mobs as part of grouping. Fun though, a bit more of a struggle solo but them's the breaks.

[DreadShinobi]

If you're just leveling right now put two endurance reduction SOs into envenom, it will help tons. Also endredux into Roots.

[Oneofthe1d4]

Thanks for the advice. I'd been farming Merits on the Stalker so I've got bits of the Controller set slotted while I build up the cash for the recommended IOs but I'd been using some endurance reduction too.