Rad/Fire Respec

[BrandX]

20 minutes ago, Sanguinesun said:

 

I think what you meant to say there was,

 

"I got embarrassed for making error laden comments that were trying to support my poor stance and agenda so now I'm going to further erode the validity of said stance by engaging in ad hominem."

 

 

The changes for burn do affect both aoe and st due to the proc changes and the changes to the patches though the fiery embrace lil short 2nd patch helps lessen the change its not significantly impactful due fiery embrace not being able to use used in every attack chain nor even every mob group encountered due to the recharge time(even at 400% recharge with primary sets using recharge procs).

 

If that's the case, I'd have to think, does the loss of damage feel equal to the gains in survival.

[Sanguinesun]

18 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

If that's the case, I'd have to think, does the loss of damage feel equal to the gains in survival.

 

A better question would be to ask why the set, intended from its inception to be intended to be the most offense oriented set, should be altered(generisized really) to lessen that intention and given consolation prize equivalent survival uptick?

 

Basically HC devs are mixing both, making generic the sets both in terms of function and roles without keeping in mind the reasons the sets were more distinct in the first place.    To what end goal then?  The -def secondary attribute in attacks being made more prolific in so many sets too is another example of this.

 

Removing holes in the defensive sets(which were intentionally made originally for sets to have weaknesses to overcome), adding more secondary attributes similarly across offensive sets and then chasing a never-ending vicious circle of adjustments there after while not looking at how that has an overall impact to play/interest is something I'm questioning.  

Edited October 9, 2022 by Sanguinesun

[BrandX]

20 minutes ago, Sanguinesun said:

 

A better question would be to ask why the set, intended from its inception to be intended to be the most offense oriented set, should be altered(generisized really) to lessen that intention and given consolation prize equivalent survival uptick?

 

Basically HC devs are mixing both, making generic the sets both in terms of function and roles without keeping in mind the reasons the sets were more distinct in the first place.    To what end goal then?  The -def secondary attribute in attacks being made more prolific in so many sets too is another example of this.

 

Removing holes in the defensive sets(which were intentionally made originally for sets to have weaknesses to overcome), adding more secondary attributes similarly across offensive sets and then chasing a never-ending vicious circle of adjustments there after while not looking at how that has an overall impact to play/interest is something I'm questioning.  

 

Well, I don't know if any hole was really filled in on Fire Armor, other than 1pt Knock Back Resist.  Though, I'm not sure it should've had any change to Burn, in so much as, isn't Bio Armor more damage compared to Fire Armor and considered more survivable?

 

I'm also not sure how different the Burn effects are for farmers and standard play.

[Sanguinesun]

On 10/9/2022 at 3:16 PM, BrandX said:

 

Well, I don't know if any hole was really filled in on Fire Armor, other than 1pt Knock Back Resist.  Though, I'm not sure it should've had any change to Burn, in so much as, isn't Bio Armor more damage compared to Fire Armor and considered more survivable?

 

I'm also not sure how different the Burn effects are for farmers and standard play.

 

Some of this should be obvious but essentially,  burn is a strong component for the clearing of groups in farms.  Farms are designed so that, in general, so that mobs group up in large quantities to be downed quickly.  Burn, along with various other aoe powers allow for the, well, burning down of those groups in a short amount of time.

 

Compared to regular mission play, farmers focus on resistance and defenses in specific categories as opposed to spreading their resistances/defenses out more at the sacrifice of damage/powers.   This allows a farmer to focus more on the damage optimizing as well since they're not having to diversify their protections so to speak.   Burn as well is capable of having lots of procs in it that allow for additional damage to be done and its recharge time means it can be used in an extended attack chain.     Fire has always been considered the main offensive centric set with burn being central to that. Even when the game was live in the early years (even back when you could 6 slot burn full of damage with no diminishing returns) it was used by people farming via specific end game missions for power leveling players etc.

 

Bio actually isn't more damage overall for farmers.  It can make for a decent alternative for smashing lethal farms since that's the easier categories to get to cap for the set but its not suited for fire farming(since the fire resistance can be capped very easy with the fire set.

 

 

[BrandX]

26 minutes ago, Sanguinesun said:

 

Some of this should be obvious but essentially,  burn is a strong component for the clearing of groups in farms.  Farms are designed so that, in general, so that mobs group up in large quantities to be downed quickly.  Burn, along with various other aoe powers allow for the, well, burning down of those groups in a short amount of time.

 

Compared to regular mission play, farmers focus on resistance and defenses in specific categories as opposed to spreading their resistances/defenses out more at the sacrifice of damage/powers.   This allows a farmer to focus more on the damage optimizing as well since they're not having to diversify their protections so to speak.   Burn as well is capable of having lots of procs in it that allow for additional damage to be done and its recharge time means it can be used in an extended attack chain.     Fire has always been considered the main offensive centric set with burn being central to that. Even when the game was live in the early years (even back when you could 6 slot burn full of damage with no diminishing returns) it was used by people farming via specific end game missions for power leveling players etc.

 

Bio actually isn't more damage overall for farmers.  It can make for a decent alternative for smashing lethal farms since that's the easier categories to get to cap for the set but its not suited for fire farming(since the fire resistance can be capped very easy with the fire set.

 

 

 

I knew the basics there.  I do have an Ice/Fire Brute farmer 😛  But I never paid attention to how much faster it helps me kill things between farms and regular missions.  Just know, AOE damage kill groups faster 😛

 

As for the Bio vs Fire Armor, that was more for regular play and not farming, as yes, Fire Farmers build for fire protection.  Regular play, would go a bit different.  In regular play, what's the difference in them for damage and such?  Bio is winning in ST for sure and feels more survivable.

Edited October 10, 2022 by BrandX

[Sanguinesun]

50 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

I knew the basics there.  I do have an Ice/Fire Brute farmer 😛  But I never paid attention to how much faster it helps me kill things between farms and regular missions.  Just know, AOE damage kill groups faster 😛

 

As for the Bio vs Fire Armor, that was more for regular play and not farming, as yes, Fire Farmers build for fire protection.  Regular play, would go a bit different.  In regular play, what's the difference in them for damage and such?  Bio is winning in ST for sure and feels more survivable.

 

This may(or may not) too be due to your build and attack chain.  With ice you've only 2 powers considered aoe that do damage with one having a long activation(frost's cone which I'd personally use as a jump attack to get the cone to be circular for bunched mobs around me situationally).  And your Frozen Aura.   If you have your attack chain with mu patron and going ball to collect the mobs to you, then fence and Ice patch to hold/kb them then burn and last aura for your initial attack chain, you'd then maybe slow down after that and notice it less.

 

Regular missions that team with folks you'd not be able to ideally be doing this due to the pace of the team except in certain situations. 

 

You can build a /fire brute or fire/ tank for Smashing lethal farming but such has to be done through more slot/power/io choices to get there and thus other aspects of the build have to be adjusted too.

 

 

 

As for reg vs farm play, I've already mentioned something but its also very important to understand that saying "regular play" is a rather large bucket of considerations.

 

For example a leveling build for many sets/at's is not the same as a post 50 play one.  Regular play for some can be exclusively running in teams, others its solo.  Some its mostly or only TF's and trials.  For others it could be paper mission grinding and the list goes on.

 

As I said above, most teaming situations, unless the mobs are really hard dif set, are going to die within the first few attacks by a group.  Brute/tank's role in those cases isn't focused as damage but as enduring and focusing damage to themselves instead of their team mates and doing damage/control there after.  So a good recharging burn you may be able to drop once each mob group but most groups again arent going to give you much time to grab the group to you, they're just going to kill and move on.  This is why there's becoming an sad trend for tankers and (and especially brutes for their fury centric thinking) to hit initially a group, drop some damage, then be running to the next group when the mobs are 1-2 thirds way dead.   Its not a good tactic in my opinion unless you know the makeup of the team well.

 

If you're soloing and not doing content at the highest levels and large groups, then you'll see a similar not so strong need of aoes since -1 or 0/ team of 1 difficulty settings are pretty much going to have you focusing on single target vs need for aoe as a whole.

 

 

So you see, your question concerning the differences has to be qualified with what sorts of activity is being done.