Thermal Defender or Corruptor: Pair with Elec Blast or Ice Blast!

[StriderIV]

Hi heroes,

 

I’m looking to run a Thermal hero, and I’m trying to decide what to pair it with:

 

Electric Blast or Ice Blast. 

 

Ice seems to have nice slows built in, and procs out nicely.

 

Elec’s damage is pretty nice with the new Shock mechanic, and pair with Thermal should be a great sapper.

 

Also, would you run either of these combos on a Defender or a Corruptor? The idea of Elec Blasts shocked + Corruptor scourge really intrigues me.

 

Thanks for any insights!

[JJDrakken]

14 hours ago, StriderIV said:

Hi heroes,

 

I’m looking to run a Thermal hero, and I’m trying to decide what to pair it with:

 

Electric Blast or Ice Blast. 

 

Ice seems to have nice slows built in, and procs out nicely.

 

Elec’s damage is pretty nice with the new Shock mechanic, and pair with Thermal should be a great sapper.

 

Also, would you run either of these combos on a Defender or a Corruptor? The idea of Elec Blasts shocked + Corruptor scourge really intrigues me.

 

Thanks for any insights!

 

Thing about sapping. Many mobs still have attacks that cost 0-1 endo.  Sapping mechanic was more for PvP & getting endo back from mobs. I can't recall if HC changed mobs to make it worth more then that.

 

Defender - Thermal Radiation - Ice Blast.mxd

 

[StriderIV]

3 hours ago, JJDrakken said:

 

Thing about sapping. Many mobs still have attacks that cost 0-1 endo.  Sapping mechanic was more for PvP & getting endo back from mobs. I can't recall if HC changed mobs to make it worth more then that.

 

Defender - Thermal Radiation - Ice Blast.mxd 4.74 kB · 0 downloads

 

Appreciate this, good call out on the sapping. Now that you mention it, I could see either being pretty good at PvP (although I don't do PvP, it just sounds good on paper haha).

[Ringo]

Thermal and Poison are the two sets that do -recovery, so they're actually the only true sapper sets as they not only drain end but keep enemies from generating new end for 40 and 30 seconds respectively.  Even Short Circuit in Electric Blast only has a 10 second -recovery duration.

 

So from my point of view if you're going Thermal then take advantage of Heat Exhaustion and pair it with Electric Blast.

 

As far as Defender vs Corruptor, I was investigating this for a potential Elec/Poison sapper and my conclusions were:

Strictly Solo:  Defender (Vigilance damage boost, higher debuff values)

Teamed: Corruptor (Defenders lose the damage boost, teams throw out enough damage and debuffs that the lower Corr debuffs are only felt on the very hardest of targets, which actually see Scourge perform at its best)

Teamed, Hard Mode Content:  Defender (Everything needs debuffed, but not everything has the HP bar necessary to make Scourge a bigger factor)

 

So that's for a Poison Sapper.  For Thermal, which is a much more Buff-centric set, I think you're better off running a Corruptor in all situations.  Basically only Forge and Melt Armor are always benefitting from the higher Defender values, and that's not enough to make the damage drop worth it.

[Ringo]

This is the post (and the build) that clued me in on the -recovery effects being limited to Poison and Thermal.  @Tomgreen1has a great PVP/Hard Target sapper build here that was really informative.

 

  

On 9/23/2022 at 2:29 AM, Tomgreen1 said:

I was probably the guy running the elec/therm sapper you saw. It's a pvp build that also pve's extremely well. I compared lots of sapping powers and it came up the best. Things like Kin can sap as well but when facing GM's AV's and especially in pvp vs players sapping them is the first half but if they get a centimeter of end back they will attack so -recovery and keeping them at 0 once they are sapped is the second half and heat exhaustion is top tier for that. My drain numbers are nutty in pvp and x3 as nutty in Pve due to incarnates. I can sap most GM's end in 1 shot and almost all by 2 shots. The therm side of it is mostly a pvp thing though and you could play kin or cold instead but you may run into the issue of GM's and such getting a bit of end and doing their attacks. In a lot of TF's I've played this on the main bad guy just sort of sits there confused not able to attack and becomes your friend. Here is the build which can kill anything but elec/rad armor in pvp and also works extremely well in pve. If you don't plan to pvp or don't care about the single target drain vs GM's/AV's then don't pick thermal. If you are going to use short circuit consider getting combat teleport and binding it to target like so       /bind T powexec_location target combat teleport     you can instant teleport in and drain them. Take the 45% end drain alpha. Clarion +special incarnate gives you an 80% end drain boost, soul mastery power boost 80% also, charge up like 30% or so. If facing a GM pop all 3 and thunderousstrike and they will likely be at 0 end. If facing 54 mobs just use 1 at a time alternating. Short circuit with either clarion or power boost will 100% drain 54's. Thunderous blast + short circuit will drain 54's without the boost on down times. Damage isn't bad either has an attack chain that can kill players in PVP and does moderate damage more than most supports but if you went kin you could really up the pve damage at the cost of GM's and such being able to attack. It's actually extremely powerful in TF's when entire mobs just sit there confused not able to attack but like I said you don't need the therm for that only for strong single targets. This has enough mob sapping alone just on the elec side so I wouldn't worry about getting more aoe saps from secondary just consider -recover if you want that funny 0 attacking gm but otherwise just pick whatever for secondary could do a lot of damage with fulcrum. You are squishy but I can do farm maps if you thunderous the mob to start or short circuit they wont even be able to attack.

There is a lot of picks in there for pvp so take pieces from it if you are pve only. Such as tactics not needed fly not needed with the teleport. But must picks are that binded combat teleport with short circuit complete playstyle changer and feels amazing, power boost from soul is a must have with sapping builds, shortcircuit/thunderous kitted for end drain must have.

 

 

This Villain build was built using Mids Reborn 3.2.17
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Corruptor
Primary Power Set: Electrical Blast
Secondary Power Set: Thermal Radiation
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Charged Bolts -- GldJvl-Acc/Dmg(A), GldJvl-Dam/Rech(3), GldJvl-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(3), GldJvl-Dam%(5), GldJvl-Acc/End/Rech(5), GldJvl-Dam/End/Rech(7)
Level 1: Warmth -- Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(A), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(7), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(9), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(9), Pnc-Heal(11), Pnc-Heal/+End(11)
Level 2: Lightning Bolt -- SprScrBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprScrBls-Dmg/Rchg(17), SprScrBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), SprScrBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), GldJvl-Dam%(19), Tmp-EndDrn%(21)
Level 4: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 6: Fly -- WntGif-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng(A), WntGif-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng/EndRdx(21), WntGif-ResSlow(23)
Level 8: Charge Up -- GssSynFr--Build%(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(29), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(31)
Level 10: Teleport -- Wrp-Range(A), Wrp-End/Range(25), Wrp-End(27), Wrp-+Special(27)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 14: Combat Teleport -- Range-I(A), Range-I(29)
Level 16: Tactics -- RctRtc-Pcptn(A)
Level 18: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(31), Rct-ResDam%(33), Ksm-ToHit+(33)
Level 20: Evasive Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), DefBuff-I(31)
Level 22: Short Circuit -- Arm-Dmg(A), DS:DSyncEndModRech(34), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(34), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), DS:DSyncEndModAcc(36), DS:DSyncEndModRech(36)
Level 24: Zapp -- GldJvl-Dam%(A), StnoftheM-Dam%(36), SprMlcoft-Rchg/Dmg%(37), SprMlcoft-Acc/Dmg(37), Apc-Dam%(37), Tmp-EndDrn%(39)
Level 26: Voltaic Sentinel -- ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(A), PrfShf-End%(39), EndMod-I(39), ExpRnf-Dmg/EndRdx(40), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(40), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(40)
Level 28: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 30: Thaw -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A)
Level 32: Thunderous Blast -- JvlVll-Acc/Dmg(A), JvlVll-Acc/End/Rech(42), JvlVll-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(43), DS:DSyncEndModAcc(43), DS:DSyncEndModRech(43), DS:DSyncEndModRech(45)
Level 35: Heat Exhaustion -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(45), Acc-I(45)
Level 38: Dark Embrace -- GldArm-ResDam(A), GldArm-End/Res(42), GldArm-3defTpProc(46)
Level 41: Soul Storm -- DS:DSyncAccDam(A), GldJvl-Dam%(46), NrnSht-Dam%(46), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(48), UnbCns-Dam%(48), GldNet-Dam%(48)
Level 44: Power Boost -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 47: Melt Armor -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 49: Fire Shield -- StdPrt-ResKB(A)
Level 1: Scourge
Level 1: Brawl -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(23), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), Hct-Acc/Rchg(42), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 1: Health -- Prv-Absorb%(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(13), Mrc-Rcvry+(13)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(15), PrfShf-EndMod/Acc(15)
Level 1: Shocked
Level 49: Quick Form
Level 50: Agility Total Core Revamp
Level 6: Afterburner
------------

 

 

 

[StriderIV]

6 hours ago, Ringo said:

This is the post (and the build) that clued me in on the -recovery effects being limited to Poison and Thermal.  @Tomgreen1has a great PVP/Hard Target sapper build here that was really informative.

 

  

 

oooooh that build seems nasty haha

[StriderIV]

6 hours ago, Ringo said:

Thermal and Poison are the two sets that do -recovery, so they're actually the only true sapper sets as they not only drain end but keep enemies from generating new end for 40 and 30 seconds respectively.  Even Short Circuit in Electric Blast only has a 10 second -recovery duration.

 

So from my point of view if you're going Thermal then take advantage of Heat Exhaustion and pair it with Electric Blast.

 

As far as Defender vs Corruptor, I was investigating this for a potential Elec/Poison sapper and my conclusions were:

Strictly Solo:  Defender (Vigilance damage boost, higher debuff values)

Teamed: Corruptor (Defenders lose the damage boost, teams throw out enough damage and debuffs that the lower Corr debuffs are only felt on the very hardest of targets, which actually see Scourge perform at its best)

Teamed, Hard Mode Content:  Defender (Everything needs debuffed, but not everything has the HP bar necessary to make Scourge a bigger factor)

 

So that's for a Poison Sapper.  For Thermal, which is a much more Buff-centric set, I think you're better off running a Corruptor in all situations.  Basically only Forge and Melt Armor are always benefitting from the higher Defender values, and that's not enough to make the damage drop worth it.

I appreciate the thought you put into this Ringo!!! I have an Elec/Elec Sent that is a sapping monster (quite funny really) but I have to be firing things off constantly to keep endurance down on foes. Makes sense since Short Circuit is the only power with -recovery.

I was thinking Elec/Kin Corruptor could be really nice as well, but I believe Kin just has the -endurance down and doesn't neuter their recovery.

One more QQ for you: How do shocked and scourge work together? If their end is down, am I getting the shocked procs and as their health drops, scourge kicks in? Seems like it could be a nice synergy.

[Ringo]

That is exactly how Shocked and Scourge work together.  Electric Blast is absolute murder on a Corr vs high HP targets.

 

And I am preparing to reroll my baby Kin/Elec Defender as a Poison/Elec Defender for the same reasons

[Ringo]

I mean yeah, if you just wanna do damage

[Tomgreen1]

Epoch has a high end elec/kin corruptor that works well and he solo fire farms with it. You really only need to worry about -recovery if you are trying to endurance sap gms/avs/pvp. In basic pve 54 mobs you can just sap their end (with thunderous/shortcircuit) and not worry about recovery really because your team will kill before they regain it or you can follow up with just a short circuit 7 seconds later to keep them at 0. The -recovery is moreso for trying to let really strong opponents never be able to attack. Some of those AV's/GM's have 0 endurance attacks even if you fully sap them but they arent as strong as their other attacks and only about half have those. My elec/thermal sapper is really fun to mess with vs gms. You could go ice blast just for damage I don't really see how ice blast's -recharge secondary would combo with thermal if you were trying to do something besides just damage though. That elec/thermal build I posted is a pvp build though it does work in pve and it does do decent damage and I played it a lot in pve and it did well but there is room for pve improvement because some of those choices are just for pvp (you wouldn't need teleport and fly ect).

Shocked adds 20% damage or so and has a higher chance to go off the lower their end is. Mid's can't really calculate that, but with powerboost thunderous the entire 54 mob if slotted like the pvp build will have 0 end. Short circuit same deal but its aoe can't hit an entire mob it can hit half and you just do it twice. Clarion + Special incarnate works also besides power boost.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Tomgreen1

[Tomgreen1]

Thermal in pve isn't top tier but it has some stuff going for it. Melt armor is good vs mobs or boss. Heat exhaustion is good vs boss to reduce their damage. Forge is a good teammate buff, and thermal has a good low cooldown aoe heal spam + another heal which combines well if you target bind combat teleport with 2 ranged IO's in it then you just click your teammates name on the team bar press the key and your right next to them to heal them. (combat teleport is undervalued in support classes for purposes like that, but it's only good if you make a target bind for it then it's really fun)

So thermal has lots of healing capabilities for the team if you are ontop that with combat teleport or getting near teammates. That's it's main boon over something like empathy because then it still has melt armor and heat exhaustion for bosses.

My build for thermal was a very greedy pvp single target style though.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Tomgreen1

[StriderIV]

40 minutes ago, Tomgreen1 said:

Thermal in pve isn't top tier but it has some stuff going for it. Melt armor is good vs mobs or boss. Heat exhaustion is good vs boss to reduce their damage. Forge is a good teammate buff, and thermal has a good low cooldown aoe heal spam + another heal which combines well if you target bind combat teleport with 2 ranged IO's in it then you just click your teammates name on the team bar press the key and your right next to them to heal them. (combat teleport is undervalued in support classes for purposes like that, but it's only good if you make a target bind for it then it's really fun)

So thermal has lots of healing capabilities for the team if you are ontop that with combat teleport or getting near teammates. That's it's main boon over something like empathy because then it still has melt armor and heat exhaustion for bosses.

My build for thermal was a very greedy pvp single target style though.

Yeah, I will say that Thermal always struck me as a Jack of all trades, Master of none. Still, it has a lot of tools in it's tookit. I just never thought about it for PvP purposes, but after reading a bit more into it... it seems like it could be VERY strong in that area.

[Tomgreen1]

There is no dispel power in the game so you cast heat exhaustion and can run around for a bit and they lose end it's very hard to deal with.

[Tomgreen1]

Ice blast has some of the best proc chance slotting/cast animations in the game so ice blast will outdamage elec if proc slotted. So if you aren't going to sap at all with the elec and just are going pure damage ice will be the min max choice.