Swashbuckler? Mauler? Name This AT! (And Help Me Flesh It Out Too.)

[ClawsandEffect]

Here's an idea for an inherent. 

 

Inverse Fury bar. Call it Grit or something like that. Only increases when you attack, not when you are attacked. 

 

Instead of increasing damage it increases the effectiveness of your armor and survivability powers. 

 

Example: Mez protection. The base mez protection power in the secondary has a low value, maybe Mag 1. The more you attack and build up the bar the more the mez protection builds up until you hit Mag 10 or whatever Scrapper mez protection maxes out at. 

 

Same works for resistance and defense. Lower values to start, but as your Grit bar fills up you end up somewhere around where a Sentinel is on survivability. 

 

The best part is the code for this already exists in the game in the form of several IOs. Specifically I'm thinking of the Reactive Defenses Scaling Damage Resist IO. It goes from 3% to 10% depending on  where your health bar is at. I see no reason why something similar couldn't be done by tying a value to an increasing bar instead. 

 

The overall idea here is that this AT needs to keep going to keep itself safe. If it is caught flat-footed it is in trouble, but as long as it can keep attacking it is relatively safe. 

 

It also gives a reason for the ranged powers to exist. If you can attack at range too, you can build up your Grit bar a little bit before you dive into melee range instead of having to jump in and pray you can get enough attacks off to survive the alpha strike. 

 

I'll put some more thought into it and maybe we can work out something feasible. I did get a couple minor suggestions through on the live forums (me and a few other people are the reason Resilience in Regen works on all damage types  and I basically named the Annihilation set) so I think I can work out something that is balanced enough to present to the devs. 

 

I like the idea in general, let me work on it and I'll revisit this thread with what I come up with. 

Edited March 30, 2023 by ClawsandEffect

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, ClawsandEffect said:

Here's an idea for an inherent. 

 

Inverse Fury bar. Call it Grit or something like that. Only increases when you attack, not when you are attacked. 

 

Instead of increasing damage it increases the effectiveness of your armor and survivability powers. 

 

Example: Mez protection. The base mez protection power in the secondary has a low value, maybe Mag 1. The more you attack and build up the bar the more the mez protection builds up until you hit Mag 10 or whatever Scrapper mez protection maxes out at. 

 

Same works for resistance and defense. Lower values to start, but as your Grit bar fills up you end up somewhere around where a Sentinel is on survivability. 

 

The best part is the code for this already exists in the game in the form of several IOs. Specifically I'm thinking of the Reactive Defenses Scaling Damage Resist IO. It goes from 3% to 10% depending on  where your health bar is at. I see no reason why something similar couldn't be done by tying a value to an increasing bar instead. 

 

The overall idea here is that this AT needs to keep going to keep itself safe. If it is caught flat-footed it is in trouble, but as long as it can keep attacking it is relatively safe. 

 

It also gives a reason for the ranged powers to exist. If you can attack at range too, you can build up your Grit bar a little bit before you dive into melee range instead of having to jump in and pray you can get enough attacks off to survive the alpha strike. 

 

I'll put some more thought into it and maybe we can work out something feasible. I did get a couple minor suggestions through on the live forums (me and a few other people are the reason Resilience in Regen works on all damage types  and I basically named the Annihilation set) so I think I can work out something that is balanced enough to present to the devs. 

 

I like the idea in general, let me work on it and I'll revisit this thread with what I come up with. 

Thank you for the interest in the proposed AT. However, Super Reflexes has the innate increasing resist ability, though as your health drops rather than as you attack. Same as the scaling defense IO. I'd rather avoid the overlap with the two. Especially since Option 1 of the proposed Striker AT would also potentially include a super reflexes-based power set as a primary option. Nice idea though. Do you have any other insights/feedback into the proposed AT?

[ClawsandEffect]

My proposal isn't just for resistance though. It's for all survivability aspects. Resistance, defense, and mez protection. Maybe regeneration too. 

 

I don't think one aspect of that overlapping with a somewhat similar mechanic that exists within a single powerset is a good enough reason to discard the idea entirely. If overlap is to be completely avoided then the original developers already failed on that when:

 

-Scrappers and Stalkers were both given the ability to crit as an inherent 

-Tankers and Brutes were both given the ability to taunt enemies they hit. 

-Blaster damage goes up as they attack, very similarly to how Brutes work. 

 

There's plenty of overlap already existing in the game. This would be a unique mechanic for an entire AT, rather than one minor aspect of a single powerset that most players don't even notice happening, and that was not part of the original design of said powerset. The resistance buff as health decreases was a QoL change that came along later. 

 

What I had in mind conceptually is essentially the old adage "The best defense is a good offense". Basically the enemy is so overwhelmed by the ferocity of your assault that their ability to fight back is reduced. Represented in game by the effectiveness of your defensive powers increasing as the bar for the inherent increases. 

 

Sample powerset, based on Martial Assault Dominator secondary: 

 

1- Shuriken Throw 

2- Ninja Reflexes (both Ninjitsu defense toggles rolled into one power) 

3- Trick Shot 

4- Mez Protection + Regen toggle power, possibly Recovery as well* 

5- Blinding Powder or a similar soft control power (maybe a version of Smoke Flash that stuns instead?)

6- Stealth power. Jury is out on whether this should give increased damage while stealthed. 

7- Self heal or Absorb click power. 

8- Masterful Throw 

9- Exploding Shuriken, but make it a targeted AoE. Because it's silly that an exploding object doesn't damage anything around it. Making it work like Thunder Strike in that the primary target takes more damage than nearby enemies would be fine. 

 

In this case, if the defense toggle started at roughly Weave levels and increased to Scrapper base level as the bar increases towards full, that would probably be about ideal. Same for resistance powers. What I don't know, however, is how enhancing those powers would affect this mechanic. 

 

*I know Ninjitsu has click mez protection, but I can't for the life of me think of how you could make a click power increase in effectiveness based on where a bar is at. Heal and absorb click powers is easier. They would grant more heal/absorb the fuller the bar is when you use them. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BazookaTwo]

You do realize you can build a blapper that functions like this, or a stalker without hide and placate? 

[Rudra]

46 minutes ago, BazookaTwo said:

You do realize you can build a blapper that functions like this, or a stalker without hide and placate? 

You mean like I could just make a Defender instead of a Corruptor or just make a Tanker instead of a Brute? I am well aware that the proposed AT is functionally a Blapper. Just like a Defender functionally is a Corruptor. The difference is what are the primaries versus the secondaries, what is the inherent and how does it function, and when and what powers populate the power sets. Blappers don't get armors in either their primary or secondary power sets, whereas option 1 for this AT does. Blasters don't get mez protection in either their primary or secondary power sets, both options for the proposed AT do. Blasters can attack while mezzed, the proposed AT can't. Blasters would realistically have a higher base damage for their ranged attacks than the proposed AT too. And Stalker's don't get ranged attacks in either their primary or secondary power sets. The proposed AT is an inverse Blaster. Says so in the OP. Just with a different mix of powers and a different inherent.

[BazookaTwo]

16 minutes ago, Rudra said:

You mean like I could just make a Defender instead of a Corruptor or just make a Tanker instead of a Brute? I am well aware that the proposed AT is functionally a Blapper. Just like a Defender functionally is a Corruptor. The difference is what are the primaries versus the secondaries, what is the inherent and how does it function, and when and what powers populate the power sets. Blappers don't get armors in either their primary or secondary power sets, whereas option 1 for this AT does. Blasters don't get mez protection in either their primary or secondary power sets, both options for the proposed AT do. Blasters can attack while mezzed, the proposed AT can't. Blasters would realistically have a higher base damage for their ranged attacks than the proposed AT too. And Stalker's don't get ranged attacks in either their primary or secondary power sets. The proposed AT is an inverse Blaster. Says so in the OP. Just with a different mix of powers and a different inherent.

 

That's nice and all but if I wanted what you propose, I'd just build something as close to it as possible using...any of like 4-6 of the other ATs. 

I guess I'm asking you why not build a Stalker and retrofit it to your purposes. Higher burst damage than a Scrapper. Best Burst Damage in the game, melee wise. They all get epic ranged shots to pick from. 

 

Alternately a ?/Martial blaster would be interesting to theory craft, and you could pick the two attacks you think fit the idea.

 

My dream is to have a new AT similar to Tsoo Ink Men. Melee, with Dominator or Corruptor performing secondaries. But it will never happen because people already complain about Sents and what I'm thinking would be an inverse of a Sent. 

 

And now I'm going to hit mids and see what it would take to build your idea with what's available in game. 

 

 

[Rudra]

14 minutes ago, BazookaTwo said:

 

That's nice and all but if I wanted what you propose, I'd just build something as close to it as possible using...any of like 4-6 of the other ATs. 

I guess I'm asking you why not build a Stalker and retrofit it to your purposes. Higher burst damage than a Scrapper. Best Burst Damage in the game, melee wise. They all get epic ranged shots to pick from. 

 

Alternately a ?/Martial blaster would be interesting to theory craft, and you could pick the two attacks you think fit the idea.

 

My dream is to have a new AT similar to Tsoo Ink Men. Melee, with Dominator or Corruptor performing secondaries. But it will never happen because people already complain about Sents and what I'm thinking would be an inverse of a Sent. 

 

And now I'm going to hit mids and see what it would take to build your idea with what's available in game. 

 

 

Stalkers don't get ranged attacks in their primary or secondary power sets. So a Stalker would not meet the proposed inverse Blaster that the proposed AT is listed as being. The idea of this AT is an inverse Blaster. That's why I designed it the way I did. That's why I was working with those willing to provide feedback on the AT on trying to develop it into something that would still be unique despite being an inverse Blaster.

 

And if your dream is to make a Tsoo Ink Man AT by combining a melee set with either Dominator or Corruptor secondaries, then propose it. (Edit: Though you may want to come up with a better name than Tsoo Ink Man Clone. 😛) And work with those willing to give you feedback to make the idea better, more open to the general player base, and find its own unique place among the ATs. There is nothing stopping you from proposing it. And it doesn't matter if others complain about Sentinels and your idea would be an inverse Sentinel. Maybe the version you propose would be sufficiently interesting in its own right and will get developed. Go for it.

Edited April 1, 2023 by Rudra

[the mauler]

Mauler is a great name! He's my main. He was on Live and I made him on Everlasting as soon as I found out about Homecoming. I'm so glad this game is back. I like the name Swashbuckler too. Can you make him Ninja Blade/Shield?

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by the mauler

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, the mauler said:

Mauler is a great name! He's my main. He was on Live and I made him on Everlasting as soon as I found out about Homecoming. I'm so glad this game is back. I like the name Swashbuckler too. Can you make him Ninja Blade/Shield?

 

Unknown at this time. No sets have been formalized. As an inverse Blaster though, I'm not sure how /Shield would work for the AT.

[the mauler]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Unknown at this time. No sets have been formalized. As an inverse Blaster though, I'm not sure how /Shield would work for the AT.

I must have missed the part about the blaster! Ooops. So still in the planning stage?

 

[Rudra]

With the feedback I've gotten so far, the proposed AT is both up to and down to 2 different options for testing if the devs are inclined. Specific sets would need to be fleshed out though. My last post on page 3 of this thread is where we left off pending any other feedback.