Considering giving MMs another try...

[Nyghtmaire]

9 hours ago, Dixa said:

 

defense alone is never enough, as you will not be able to get a meaningful amount of resistances to def debuffs. mm's need both defense and resistances. 

Make sense when you have a pet set with resistances to build from. Ninjas have no native resistance from which to build. But fully slotted Danger Sense, Maneuvers, and all pet defensive procs has them sitting at ~35 across the board (except AOE = 50). 
 

Best case scenario with max slotted resistance and all three resistance pet procs:

 

Thermal:

fire shield: 24 (S/L/F), 12 (C)

Plasma shield: 24 (E/N/F)

TOTAL: 59 S/L/E/N, 84 F, 47 C, 35 T/P

 

Sonic:

Sonic Barrier: 24 (S/L/T)

Sonic Haven: 24 (E/N/F/C)

Sonic Dispersion: 18 (all but psi)

Total: 76 all, 35 psi

 

Pain:

World of Pain: 18 all

Total: 53 all

 

Nature:

Wild Growth: 18 all

Total: 53 all

 

Alternatively, a fully built Ninja paired with Time, FF, Cold, or Traps can readily overcap regular defensive softcap which functions as a cushion for defensive debuffs (and still maintain a baseline 35% resistance level for what passes that).

 

If my arm was twisted to run a resistance set with Ninjas, I’d consider Nature first. Between Tactics, Overgrowth, and Supremacy, Accuracy could be dumped from pet slotting for offensive and defensive procs. The resistances would be mostly equivalent with the other resistance sets absent Sonic, but the absorb + heals + control from Entangling Aura might be enough to control a mob group. 
 

For defensive sets, traps has the fewest tricks only having Force Field Generator: 16 all fully slotted. Total: 51 all but AOE (66). Not bad but not too much overlapping (except AOE). 
 

But with Cold:

Ice Shield: 18 (S/L/M)

Glacial Shield: 18 (E/N/A/R)

Arctic Fog: ~5.5 (all)

Total: 58.5 all (AOE -73.5) Assumes all defensive procs and fully slotted Danger Sense.

 

(Also provides resistances to F/C/E): totals being Energy (~58%), Fire (65%), Cold (76%) assuming 35% resistance procs.

 

Accuracy + Supremacy + Sleet means pet slots can go to offensive and defensive procs. Endurance can be managed by Heat Loss. While resistances are low (35% base with procs), energy resistance is roughly as good as you’ll get from running a resistance focused secondary, albeit sonic as the outlier. And that is a very common damage type at the upper levels. 
 

Any of the above, resistance or defense, could be a tad higher with a congruent alpha. Likely not most efficient use of the alpha slot, but ymmv.

 

TLDR: Dress to impress. Accentuate the strengths of the primary.

[evetsleep]

One thing to consider that wasn't mentioned when talking about layered protection with ninjas (or any defense primary) is /electric.  I know it's not amazing since the the pets would have to stay in Faraday cage, but while in it they'd get status protection, ~43% RES to all except toxic (plus 12% -DMG to a group (Discharge) and -35% to a single target (Shock + Discharge)), but electric also does bring a chain +Absorb and heal that is on a really short timer, which means it can be up all the time (which the cardboard dragons need).  It's an incredibly busy set as is and ninja's would keep it busy, but I've found it a pretty fun pairing that keeps them reasonably safe\alive.  Not as smooth sailing as something like Time or Cold but helps them stay alive when hit with big shots long enough for me to heal them up (or re-apply the absorb).

 

I have a LOT of fun with my thugs\electric and the heal & absorb goes a long way to keep that idiot arsonist alive.

 

 

 

[Dixa]

7 hours ago, Nyghtmaire said:

Make sense when you have a pet set with resistances to build from. Ninjas have no native resistance from which to build. But fully slotted Danger Sense, Maneuvers, and all pet defensive procs has them sitting at ~35 across the board (except AOE = 50). 
 

Best case scenario with max slotted resistance and all three resistance pet procs:

 

Thermal:

fire shield: 24 (S/L/F), 12 (C)

Plasma shield: 24 (E/N/F)

TOTAL: 59 S/L/E/N, 84 F, 47 C, 35 T/P

 

Sonic:

Sonic Barrier: 24 (S/L/T)

Sonic Haven: 24 (E/N/F/C)

Sonic Dispersion: 18 (all but psi)

Total: 76 all, 35 psi

 

Pain:

World of Pain: 18 all

Total: 53 all

 

Nature:

Wild Growth: 18 all

Total: 53 all

 

Alternatively, a fully built Ninja paired with Time, FF, Cold, or Traps can readily overcap regular defensive softcap which functions as a cushion for defensive debuffs (and still maintain a baseline 35% resistance level for what passes that).

 

If my arm was twisted to run a resistance set with Ninjas, I’d consider Nature first. Between Tactics, Overgrowth, and Supremacy, Accuracy could be dumped from pet slotting for offensive and defensive procs. The resistances would be mostly equivalent with the other resistance sets absent Sonic, but the absorb + heals + control from Entangling Aura might be enough to control a mob group. 
 

For defensive sets, traps has the fewest tricks only having Force Field Generator: 16 all fully slotted. Total: 51 all but AOE (66). Not bad but not too much overlapping (except AOE). 
 

But with Cold:

Ice Shield: 18 (S/L/M)

Glacial Shield: 18 (E/N/A/R)

Arctic Fog: ~5.5 (all)

Total: 58.5 all (AOE -73.5) Assumes all defensive procs and fully slotted Danger Sense.

 

(Also provides resistances to F/C/E): totals being Energy (~58%), Fire (65%), Cold (76%) assuming 35% resistance procs.

 

Accuracy + Supremacy + Sleet means pet slots can go to offensive and defensive procs. Endurance can be managed by Heat Loss. While resistances are low (35% base with procs), energy resistance is roughly as good as you’ll get from running a resistance focused secondary, albeit sonic as the outlier. And that is a very common damage type at the upper levels. 
 

Any of the above, resistance or defense, could be a tad higher with a congruent alpha. Likely not most efficient use of the alpha slot, but ymmv.

 

TLDR: Dress to impress. Accentuate the strengths of the primary.

the only way to 'accentuate the strengths of the primary' with ninjas is to avoid fighting villain groups that can floor your defenses as you have almost no resistances to defense debuffs as you have no resistances to fall back on, and that's simply not a gameplay style i have ever been ok with in this game. 

 

i really have never cared about themes or concepts if it means you have to avoid 30% or more of the villain endgame groups because they just destroy you. and no, i don't consider dropping down to -1/0 an acceptable option at 50, either. 

 

outside of themes the only reason why people are playing these weaker sets endgame is because incarnates are hard carrying you, and that's also piss-poor design. always has been. the sets either stand on their own or they do not. 

Edited May 13, 2023 by Dixa