Considering giving MMs another try...

[biostem]

I have a couple of 50 MMs, but after playing mostly Sentinels and Tankers, I'm considering rolling another one.  I'm not looking for a specific build, but general advice would be great.  I'm currently considering a demons/ice or ninja/ice.  What are your thoughts?  I've already played necro, thugs, and bots to a high level, so I want to give other sets a try.  Thanks for your input!

[silverpeacock]

On teams, /Cold should be great.  Solo, the lack of a heal will be troublesome.

 

I really like Demon/Time for a defense set, but Demon/Thermal feels the safest if that is something you care about.

[Nyghtmaire]

Either one will be cool (get it!?!), but demons will likely be smoother since the tier 2 has access to heals sooner than the ninjas (level 28). Ice favors defensive pets a bit more so. Leaving to ninjas overall.

 

Spirit Ward can pick up the slack for both unless you’re cranking the difficulty.

 

The shields will stack with the ninjas faster, making it so you can reach softcap for them fairly early (mid-20s) assuming the defensive procs are slotted (easier with Maneuvers and Arctic Fog but not strictly necessary).

 

And ninjas are pretty fun after the revamp. But can’t really go wrong with either one. Good luck!

[biostem]

53 minutes ago, silverpeacock said:

On teams, /Cold should be great.  Solo, the lack of a heal will be troublesome.

I considered that, but to be honest, I have tons of characters with the more "traditional" support sets, so I wanted to go with something different.

 

53 minutes ago, silverpeacock said:

I really like Demon/Time for a defense set

I've tried time a few times.  I'm sure it's a great set, but I just can't get into it.

 

54 minutes ago, silverpeacock said:

Demon/Thermal feels the safest if that is something you care about

Honestly, thermal radiation just doesn't appeal to me.  Not sure why.  I like my earth/pain controller, and I had fun with my thugs/sonic MM, but thermal just didn't click for me.

[twozerofoxtrot]

I took a Demons/Dark to 50 recently and I was really pleasantly surprised. Not yet finished filling out all the Incarnates but very close.

 

I've had a hard time enjoying MMs. They feel great in the baby levels but after that when things pick up speed, they literally lag behind. Demons/Dark still suffers a bit from that, but if you can adapt and get your pets online quickly then the amount of sustained damage you create along with high volumes of healing and debuffing is really nice. 

 

I won't say it's better than a competently played Corruptor, but there's a sort of attention bandwidth dividend you reap when you can spend the same second both dpsing and supporting in fights.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by twozerofoxtrot
I am a typo factory.

[Xandyr]

Have you thought about Demons/EA ? It's EXTREMELY tanky.

 

Anywho....between Demons and ninjas, I would lean just a bit more towards Demons. Ninjas are cool and all, and can pump out some damage....but they have like no resists. Having the ice shields on them would cap them, but when something gets thru it, MAN it hurts.

 

Demons would have a nice mix of Def and Resists...plus one of your pets will heal also. I feel like Demon Prince is a better pet overall compared to the Oni. I like throwing in the Impeded Swiftness proc in him since most all of his attacks has a chance to trigger it.

 

  Demons= safer, good mix of damage types, good mix of Def and Resists, heal

  Ninjas= can pump out major damage, hardly any resists, last upgrade will allow pets to heal. Better kill fast before the enemy gets to you

[biostem]

1 minute ago, Xandyr said:

Have you thought about Demons/EA ? It's EXTREMELY tanky.

I have a necro/elec.  It is a great secondary, but I try to avoid repeats, at least not so close together...

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Xandyr said:

Demons= safer, good mix of damage types, good mix of Def and Resists, heal

  Ninjas= can pump out major damage, hardly any resists, last upgrade will allow pets to heal. Better kill fast before the enemy gets to you

Definitely something to contemplate.  Thanks!

[twozerofoxtrot]

5 minutes ago, Xandyr said:

I like throwing in the Impeded Swiftness proc in him since most all of his attacks has a chance to trigger it.

 

This is great advice.

 

I did this and Ice Mistral's Proc+Acc/Dmg/End for the HP bonus. Prince is definitely the highest KDA ratio on the team. 

[Dixa]

mm /dark is probably the 2nd best support set in the game, with defender version being the overall best. /ff and /thermal are pretty common among mm users, but those are also well regarded in group content.

 

why /dark? because everyone and their mother 50+ probably has and uses on CD t4 barrier. twilight grasp is also one of the two largest aoe heals available to masterminds:

 

TG at 50 unenhanced: 188.65 (also has stacking -50% regen, -3.75% tohit and can take theft of essence which makes it practically free)

Rejuvenating circuit: 165.99

healing aura: 107.09 (???)

Transfusion: 188.65, same -50% regen but the heal radiates around the target and not you. can take theft of essence like TG

regrowth: 160.62, 10s cd??

Nullify pain: 94.24

radiant aura: 107.09

warmth; 94.24

temporal mending: 187.42 (base+hot target not affected by temporal selection), 18s!!! cooldown

 

all of these heals have 8s cooldown unless otherwise noted. As it should be, the two heals that require a to-hit check should do the most healing however overall aura heals on MM are not balanced properly. some are holdover from when the sets were nerfed for controllers and defenders in early COH but these ALL need a balance pass. The ability for twilight grasp and transfusion to take theft of essence and having stacking -regen puts them over the top, and you really really feel this early level. 

 

dark also brings auto hit howling grasp which at end game is up every pack no matter how fast your team is moving. tar patch. fearsome stare, a hold you can stack with a pp hold and hold proc io's to lock down nasty bosses or multiple sappers, and another pet which can do all that plus the soul tentacles bag of chips. 

 

primary wise, demons and thugs have a leg up because they have a level 18 click pet power that can hold most if not all of the mm pet aura uniques. literal ron popeil powers - slot 'em and forget 'em. this allows you to slot even MORE damage procs in your henchmen while still maxing out their damage, acc and endreduction.

 

i will say though as much as i love this class and consider it one of the better iterations of a pet class to ever hit mmorpgs - city of heroes really screws the at over in end game content. there is a metric ton of villain groups that will wipe out all but your t3 with a single auto-hit aoe that you can't do shit about. Not a single MM secondary can build enough def debuff resist to not get floored on some of the most common villain groups meaning you can't JUST build for the def cap - you need def cap, and resists cap and a heal if you don't want to lose a single pet because you - like me - find that extremely annoying busywork that should not exist.

 

demons/thermal (or now mercs/thermal, using sorc spirit ward on your medic) will be the absolute toughest pairing possible pre incarnates. back when they opened the justin test server i took multiple mm combinations through the hero side maria jenkins arc. it has multiple AV's from nearly every villain group. every combination there were moments when my pets - and of cousre me right after - would just get destroyed in a single aoe. and not from the av's, but from a boss or lieutenant that had those shitty non-positional autohit aoe's.  Demons/thermal was the only combo to handle the entire arc on 3/8 without losing a single henchmen without incarnates. 4/8 needed the full suite of incarnates. the drawback? better get and love team teleport because only about half of their attacks are ranged and you need to keep them all together for warmth spam. (with theft of essence and +absorb procs). 

 

I'm pretty sure the new mercs paired with thermal would do just as well. probably better as the medic is a far better healer than the random tiny aoe's the demon lt's occaisonally spit out.

 

I will say this though and i know it's taboo but the best overall iteration of masterminds is not on homecoming unfortunately. Although still susceptible to being one shot by non-typed aoe's the mm design decisions there have made even the horrible 1-22 mm experience a breeze. 

 

I have been playing exclusively MM's since CoV came out, but have decided it's time to move on. Every AT has a glaring hole in their powersets defenses pre incarnates, but none are as punished by the copious amounts of non-positional (F U PSYCHIC TORNADO) aoe's at end game as the mastermind. 

 

however as is my line anytime i respond to these threads - if you have a THEME, you will likely have to sacrifice some POWER for that THEME before you get incarnates. I see you may have been talked into /ea which is a fine set, but it's an extremely busy set that makes it that much harder to manage your pets when stuff goes pearshaped. if you want POWER: thugs/traps, thugs/time, thugs/cold, thugs/thermal, merc/cold, merc/ff, merc/traps, merc/time, merc/thermal, demons/time, demons/cold, demons/traps, demons/thermal. I no longer list bots as they lost a step with the removal of the heal from probots. the new maintenance drone is kinda eh and it can't even park the pet uniques it only takes +healing sets. 

 

note that thugs are pretty squishy overall, and i generally recommend taking team teleport with any mm build so you stop waiting for them to catch up and can position their conal aoe's on packs to do the most murder. you can also traverse the entirety of steel canyon without breaking a sweat with all of your pets with you far faster than group fly. 

Edited May 11, 2023 by Dixa

[evetsleep]

Kind of makes me sad no one is recommending Trick Arrow yet.  Both Ninja and Demon benefit from the AoE -ToHit (half is unresistable and with acid arrow you can lower what is resisted), -DMG, -RES, and slow.  I have just about every pet combo with trick arrow and there really isn't one that does pair up nicely with it although pets with heals are a little more nice.

 

I like Trick Arrow because it's like giving your pets shields without having to actually give them shields.  This means if they get squished I can resummon and not worry about shielding them since the ability to hit them and do damagenia through debuffs with large AoEs.

 

[evetsleep]

15 hours ago, Dixa said:

I no longer list bots as they lost a step with the removal of the heal from probots. the new maintenance drone is kinda eh and it can't even park the pet uniques it only takes +healing sets. 

 

 

 I just wanted to add that this isn't really accurate.  The assault bot lost -Regen, but the Protector Bots still have Repair.  I have a number of Bot MM's and I LOVE the maintenance drone on the ones which don't have a heal in the secondary.  Yes it doesn't allow healing sets, but in terms of healing it does a pretty good job and since it's on a relatively short timer it's easy to recast when it blows up from exhausting all of this heals..

[Nyghtmaire]

2 minutes ago, evetsleep said:

Yes it doesn't allow healing sets, but in terms of healing it does a pretty good job and since it's on a relatively short timer it's easy to recast when it blows up from exhausting all of this heals..

Maintenance Drone allows healing sets now. Preventive Medicine woohoo! Or did you mean healing sets can’t be slotted in Protector Bots? If so, it goes in Upgrade Robot. Arguably, protector bots after revamp can now have a beefier repair than previously since an entire set can be dedicated to its improvement rather than 1 slot (while enhancing defense, Acc/Dam, EndRed, and pet procs, …)

 

Still wish I could shove those pet procs in the upgrades or maintenance drone *sigh*

[evetsleep]

1 minute ago, Nyghtmaire said:

Maintenance Drone allows healing sets now. Preventive Medicine woohoo! Or did you mean healing sets can’t be slotted in Protector Bots? If so, it goes in Upgrade Robot. Arguably, protector bots after revamp can now have a beefier repair than previously since an entire set can be dedicated to its improvement rather than 1 slot (while enhancing defense, Acc/Dam, EndRed, and pet procs, …)

 

Still wish I could shove those pet procs in the upgrades or maintenance drone *sigh*

oh...I didn't realize!  Oh boy...time to crack open some of my bots again.

[Dixa]

1 hour ago, evetsleep said:

 

 I just wanted to add that this isn't really accurate.  The assault bot lost -Regen, but the Protector Bots still have Repair.  I have a number of Bot MM's and I LOVE the maintenance drone on the ones which don't have a heal in the secondary.  Yes it doesn't allow healing sets, but in terms of healing it does a pretty good job and since it's on a relatively short timer it's easy to recast when it blows up from exhausting all of this heals..

damn wish i had tested this myself before deleting my bots mm's, i was going by forum posts about all of the changes. 

[evetsleep]

20 minutes ago, Dixa said:

damn wish i had tested this myself before deleting my bots mm's, i was going by forum posts about all of the changes. 

I learned awhile ago to not delete anything.  I may rename them to something unique, but I rarely delete a toon.  We have 1000 slots per server..might as well use'm (could be why I now have almost 600 toons on Excelsior).

[StrikerFox]

3 hours ago, Dixa said:

damn wish i had tested this myself before deleting my bots mm's, i was going by forum posts about all of the changes. 

 

Don't delete them. Drag and drop the unused character to the last page of the character selection screen. Or perform a server transfer to one rarely played. Just so they're out of sight; out of mind.

[Nyghtmaire]

20 minutes ago, StrikerFox said:

 

Don't delete them. Drag and drop the unused character to the last page of the character selection screen. Or perform a server transfer to one rarely played. Just so they're out of sight; out of mind.

[Dixa]

5 hours ago, StrikerFox said:

 

Don't delete them. Drag and drop the unused character to the last page of the character selection screen. Or perform a server transfer to one rarely played. Just so they're out of sight; out of mind.

there are server transfers? i'm on indom and it's a ghost town now. 

[kelika2]

Ice/ninja has more defense synergy which will be more tolerable as you are leveling and real strong at higher levels

2 def SOsin shields and train ninjas will be fairly hefty early on as long as you have the INF to keep them upgraded

[StrikerFox]

30 minutes ago, Dixa said:

there are server transfers? i'm on indom and it's a ghost town now. 

 

Yes. Pick the hero/villain you would like to move, click the Server Transfer button on the Character Select screen (Pictured below). After acknowledging the warning, the list of the other servers will popup. If I remember correctly, we get 5 server transfer tokens every 3 days but it may have changed.

 

 

[Neiska]

I can +1 attest to the sheer bulldog stubbornness of a good Demons/Electric MM. Mine was more durable (in total) than a few tankers I have made. It wasn't the fastest by any means, but honestly it survived and done things that it really shouldn't have.

 

But another lowkey but very potent build that I don't see many of is Robot/Dark. Mine was Robot/Dark/Fire, built for flying. Stacking Tar Patch, Bonfire, T3 fire patches, Darkest Night, Howling Twilight, Fearsome Stare is all just so potent it's kind of crazy. Flying in itself can be a real game changer for pets, but only moreso when fighting enemies with limited ranged attacks and you are throwing so many debuffs at them. Plus when you are flying, all of /Dark's cones shoot downward and can hit more than expected when you use it from the ground. Another upside is that all of /Dark's -tohit debuffs works very nicely with Robots DEF buffs. Honestly playing my Robot/Dark felt like I was kind of cheating.

 

If you want something deceptively potent that isn't overplayed, give Robot/Dark a look.

[biostem]

23 hours ago, evetsleep said:

Kind of makes me sad no one is recommending Trick Arrow yet.

I have an illusion/trick arrow controller, and they are quite powerful, but I wanted to try something different..

[Dixa]

23 hours ago, kelika2 said:

Ice/ninja has more defense synergy which will be more tolerable as you are leveling and real strong at higher levels

2 def SOsin shields and train ninjas will be fairly hefty early on as long as you have the INF to keep them upgraded

 

defense alone is never enough, as you will not be able to get a meaningful amount of resistances to def debuffs. mm's need both defense and resistances. 

[evetsleep]

18 hours ago, biostem said:

I have an illusion/trick arrow controller, and they are quite powerful, but I wanted to try something different..

That's fair and TA and Illusion is indeed fun.  I think the thing that makes it different with MM's is that the debuffs from TA are more meaningful to MM pets compared to Illusion's pet(s) beyond the -RES.

 

It's probably not the first secondary I'd recommend if you're trying out MM's for the first time or had a bad experience.  But boy does TA make for a fun experience that's different.

 

Hope you find a combo that scratches that itch you have.  For me it's mercs/TA 🙂