What features are Must have for your ideal version of these systems?

[klokwerkaos]

What features are Must have for your ideal version of these systems if they were to be implemented in game?

 

Mercenaries

Personal Sidekick/Lackey

Arch Nemesis

Gallery of Rogues/Coterie

 

Please note, this is YOUR ideal version, so exact definitions of what they are, are left to your imagination.

[PaxArcana]

Mercenaries

Play a Mastermind.

 

Personal Sidekick/Lackey

Make some friends.  Talk to them about doing a "dynamic duo" setup, and playing those characters together.

 

Alternately, maybe a Power Pool, with a summon and two or three upgrade powers, sort of an "MM-Lite" approach.  Possibly several Pools, to give some variety in Sidekick choice.

 

Arch Nemesis

Basically crib the system from CO.

 

Gallery of Rogues/Coterie

Something for SG bases.  Essentially, more trophies as placeable objects - something gained at the end of each story arc (I think we already get a Clue sort of thing, yes?).

 

 

[klokwerkaos]

Mercenaries

Play a Mastermind.

 

Personal Sidekick/Lackey

Make some friends.  Talk to them about doing a "dynamic duo" setup, and playing those characters together.

 

Alternately, maybe a Power Pool, with a summon and two or three upgrade powers, sort of an "MM-Lite" approach.  Possibly several Pools, to give some variety in Sidekick choice.

 

Arch Nemesis

Basically crib the system from CO.

 

Gallery of Rogues/Coterie

Something for SG bases.  Essentially, more trophies as placeable objects - something gained at the end of each story arc (I think we already get a Clue sort of thing, yes?).

 

I covered the first three things in my suggested design so far... the last though... I sorta have in there... it's an SG terminal, specific rewards are on the table, but the system is customizable to include difficulty settings so, rewards have to be proportional... if you were going to design a thing in that context, what kind of thing would you want?  Maybe a custom display of some kind?

 

[Steampunkette]

If there was a Nemesis System implemented it would need the following things for me.

 

1) Scale of Villainy. Nemeses aren't all the same bank robbing, museum heisting, love-interest kidnapping, mooks. Some are Dr. No. Others are Doctor Octopus. Give us scale and variety. Have 3 "Tiers" of Scale. Street Level, International, Cosmic.

 

2) Personality of Villainy. Nemeses can be aggressive, thoughtful, wildly inappropriate, or completely thoughtless beings of incredible power. Give us at least 3 choices for these.

 

3) Motivation of Villainy. Why does your nemesis do what they do? Revenge against you? World Domination? Just having a Laugh?

 

The problem is that the more of these character choices you have, the bigger the total amount of work gets on an exponential basis. Let's say you've got a Nemesis who is Just having a Laugh and is Thoughtful. At the Cosmic scale this is basically Q from Star Trek. Meanwhile at the city scale its' the Joker or the Riddler.

 

You'd need to write hundreds of individual missions, each one with dozens if not hundreds of variable dialogue options where a character's personality or motivation gets expressed in different ways.

 

It is mind bogglingly complex... and that's why no game has ever even -attempted- to do it "Right"

[klokwerkaos]

If there was a Nemesis System implemented it would need the following things for me.

 

1) Scale of Villainy. Nemeses aren't all the same bank robbing, museum heisting, love-interest kidnapping, mooks. Some are Dr. No. Others are Doctor Octopus. Give us scale and variety. Have 3 "Tiers" of Scale. Street Level, International, Cosmic.

 

2) Personality of Villainy. Nemeses can be aggressive, thoughtful, wildly inappropriate, or completely thoughtless beings of incredible power. Give us at least 3 choices for these.

 

3) Motivation of Villainy. Why does your nemesis do what they do? Revenge against you? World Domination? Just having a Laugh?

 

The problem is that the more of these character choices you have, the bigger the total amount of work gets on an exponential basis. Let's say you've got a Nemesis who is Just having a Laugh and is Thoughtful. At the Cosmic scale this is basically Q from Star Trek. Meanwhile at the city scale its' the Joker or the Riddler.

 

You'd need to write hundreds of individual missions, each one with dozens if not hundreds of variable dialogue options where a character's personality or motivation gets expressed in different ways.

 

It is mind bogglingly complex... and that's why no game has ever even -attempted- to do it "Right"

 

What I have so far accounts for different mission types to select as appropriate for your arch/coterie, since it's not just villains, villains have arch heroes... but the personality thing is a challenge at the moment.  Motivation is more or less however you justify your story set up for yourself... but the personality is tough because it requires all different sets of dialog on either a per mission basis, or that 20 sets of dialog be written for every mission and both are problematic do to infinite workload.

 

Right now I have them with a custom player input battlecry as the closest thing to being possible, and it being Per mission dialog, meaning one set of dialog written per mission, select which ones fit your arch best.

 

 

[justicebeliever]

There is already a great Arch-Nemesis post out there:  Maybe we can port the relevant parts of this over to there?  One thread = better discussion

 

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/index.php/topic,3219.0.html

[klokwerkaos]

There is already a great Arch-Nemesis post out there:  Maybe we can port the relevant parts of this over to there?  One thread = better discussion

 

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/index.php/topic,3219.0.html

 

that was my thread ;) It was the reason I started putting the system together.

 

I've already incorporated all that feedback.  Just looking for anything I haven't thought of yet for proposal.

 

Mostly ideas that would be super awesome, and included as best as possible within the current tech constraints which are lessening with passing days.  That said, is good to crowd source in case one person comes up with something super awesome I just didn't think of. Though I have tried to include everything possible within scope of the game, it's possible and likely some people just have fresh ideas that didn't occur to me.

[justicebeliever]

that was my thread ;) It was the reason I started putting the system together.

 

I've already incorporated all that feedback.  Just looking for anything I haven't thought of yet for proposal.

 

Mostly ideas that would be super awesome, and included as best as possible within the current tech constraints which are lessening with passing days.  That said, is good to crowd source in case one person comes up with something super awesome I just didn't think of. Though I have tried to include everything possible within scope of the game, it's possible and likely some people just have fresh ideas that didn't occur to me.

 

Sorry...9 out of 10 times I always check the OP to see if it's the same, and 9 out of 10 times it isn't.

 

Figures the one time I don't check, is the one time it's the same....What'r the odds? 1 out of 100?  (Someone will correct me)

 

Anyhow I love the Arch Nemesis stuff in that other thread... +1

 

 

[klokwerkaos]

that was my thread ;) It was the reason I started putting the system together.

 

I've already incorporated all that feedback.  Just looking for anything I haven't thought of yet for proposal.

 

Mostly ideas that would be super awesome, and included as best as possible within the current tech constraints which are lessening with passing days.  That said, is good to crowd source in case one person comes up with something super awesome I just didn't think of. Though I have tried to include everything possible within scope of the game, it's possible and likely some people just have fresh ideas that didn't occur to me.

 

 

Sorry...9 out of 10 times I always check the OP to see if it's the same, and 9 out of 10 times it isn't.

 

Figures the one time I don't check, is the one time it's the same....What'r the odds? 1 out of 100?  (Someone will correct me)

 

Anyhow I love the Arch Nemesis stuff in that other thread... +1

 

All I can say is stay tuned.  The full scope of what I have is much larger and much more awesome.  Should definitely scratch an itch.

 

The only real thing I've had trouble with in any of the design so far was the stuff mentioned above about motivations/dialog. 

 

In theory it would be nice to pick a personality and voice, but the requirements for that from the writers is astronomical... you're probably looking at maybe 15 Archetypes for heroes and villains each at a minimum for 30 voices per mission, and that means 30 sets of unique dialog per mission, and that's just too much.  As it is, each dialog will have it's own voice/motivation and you can decide to run it or not with your arch and/or coterie in play if you feel it's appropriate.  The other option is preferred, but just not doable to scale.

[jack_nomind]

Arch Nemesis

 

In my ideal system, an arch-nemesis is a way of showing off your creativity to other players.  It would, of course, be purely optional.  For players who do it, that player would design their AN like a Mission Architect enemy -- giving them a costume, powers, and writing their standard dialogue/taunts/monologues.  They'd also assign the AN an Arcane or Science 'type,' like salvage.  When fighting enemies of the appropriate type, the AN would have a chance to spawn, and would always chatbubble taunt when 1) any player from the group got near or 2) when the player themselves got near, with a 30s lockout timer to prevent double-ups.  This precludes voicework, but I'm fine with that; that sounds expensive and prone to difficulties maintaining.  The AN could only replace a Boss or EB spawn (although it'd be cool if there were a mission arc where they could be fought as an AV).

 

I don't know if I care about players making cheesable ANs (e.g., a FA/ tanker making an enemy that only does fire damage).  But a brute-force way of avoiding that is making a database that assigns one or more fixed powers to every AN based on their PC's power combination.  This could be assigned by default per archetype (so for example, Tankers' ANs would have a psychic-damage spell or gadget) and manually overwritten by the developers for specific sets or combinations (so a DA/ Tanker's AN would have an Energy + Knockback spell or gadget instead of a Psychic one).

 

 

Gallery of Rogues/Coterie

 

A system to vote on other players' ANs, with friends' ANs, 'favorited' ANs, or highly-rated ANs showing up in the AN spawn slot occasionally.

[klokwerkaos]

Arch Nemesis

 

In my ideal system, an arch-nemesis is a way of showing off your creativity to other players.  It would, of course, be purely optional.  For players who do it, that player would design their AN like a Mission Architect enemy -- giving them a costume, powers, and writing their standard dialogue/taunts/monologues.  They'd also assign the AN an Arcane or Science 'type,' like salvage.  When fighting enemies of the appropriate type, the AN would have a chance to spawn, and would always chatbubble taunt when 1) any player from the group got near or 2) when the player themselves got near, with a 30s lockout timer to prevent double-ups.  This precludes voicework, but I'm fine with that; that sounds expensive and prone to difficulties maintaining.  The AN could only replace a Boss or EB spawn (although it'd be cool if there were a mission arc where they could be fought as an AV).

 

I don't know if I care about players making cheesable ANs (e.g., a FA/ tanker making an enemy that only does fire damage).  But a brute-force way of avoiding that is making a database that assigns one or more fixed powers to every AN based on their PC's power combination.  This could be assigned by default per archetype (so for example, Tankers' ANs would have a psychic-damage spell or gadget) and manually overwritten by the developers for specific sets or combinations (so a DA/ Tanker's AN would have an Energy + Knockback spell or gadget instead of a Psychic one).

 

 

Gallery of Rogues/Coterie

 

A system to vote on other players' ANs, with friends' ANs, 'favorited' ANs, or highly-rated ANs showing up in the AN spawn slot occasionally.

 

I think this is basically MA and already exists in game.

 

The current system is theorized to revolve around tips creation through the mission computer.  It would be possible to share your Arch with others through grouping, but it's also YOUR arch, not theirs.  They design their own arches to meet their own desires.

 

Cheesing it isn't really much of a concern, since it's designed in such a way that players control difficulty to a large extent, so the key is that rewards are standard, cosmetic only, and badges, not new game breaking enhancements and such.

 

Players can, in a sense, abuse it, but not really because it's far more efficient just to 8 man group if you want the most advancement you can get, the fastest you can get it.

 

Since it is an optional system, it's up to the player exactly how their arch works, and they may have specific RP reasons why they want it built a certain way, whether that's easier or harder, regardless.

[Chance Jackson]

I posted this in another thread but what if Serum transformed the MM into a super solder I'm thinking StJ Tank damage DPS with punch voke for a minute with a 4 minute recharge & a damage crash.