The Battle of Steel Canyon

[Ultimo]

  

Ok... I've got some mission stuff figured out.  However, my problem now lies with the STORY.  Now, I'm going to describe the story, so if you would rather not see it (spoilers, of course), then that's fine... don't read on.  If you do read on, perhaps you can offer some advice regarding how to progress the story.

 

 

Spoiler

So, the story goes something like this:

Malephar believes that the universe is expanding since the Big Bang, but that eventually it will contract again, destroying everything, because all matter is connected by interspatial gravimetric "tethers" that will stretch out, then snap back, pulling everything back to the center.  To prevent this happening, and thereby save the universe, he needs to sever those tethers... which means destroying any planets or stars along them.  Earth, with it's many connections to other dimensions and sources of power, is something of a significant nexus of tethers... and absolutely must be destroyed.  But, as we start the story, he's not fully aware of how important Earth is to his goals.

So, the story begins (from the players' perspective) with a scouting party coming to Earth to scan for tether energy.  While they're doing this, they come into conflict with one of the local gangs (I chose the Council, since they're a 1-54 group).  The players will be sent to investigate the battle going on between them.  When the Brass Men learn of Earth's connections, they send word to Malephar, who pulls out all the stops and sends the full force of the Legion to Earth.

At this point, millions of Legionnaires descend on the Earth, their goal to stamp out any significant resistance.  The defenders of Earth should be getting kicked around at this point.  My thinking is that the second mission is the players going around Steel Canyon, trying to rescue the local heroes who have already been disabled, before they flee themselves.

Once the resistance has been controlled, the Brass Legion will send equipment to Earth whose purpose is to sever the gravimetric tethers.  This will cause Earth and the solar system to be crushed out of existence.  The heroes can't fight back directly, even with assistance from Arachnos, the Circle of Thorns, and every other hero and villain group in the world, they're just plain outnumbered, and Malephar can create more Brass Men at will.  They can't just destroy the gravimetric devices, for much the same reason.  Any such action is just going to delay the inevitable.  So... what's the solution?

This is why my problem lies... I'm not sure what the heroes should do at this point.

The final battle is meant to happen in ruined Atlas Park, where the heroes have lured out all of Malephar's generals, and then by defeating them, Malephar himself... who they would then defeat.  The problem is I'm not sure how to get to this point... and I'm hoping for ideas.

Another consideration... I want the heroes to defeat Malephar... but ideally they wouldn't actually DEFEAT him.  He should be forced to flee, or driven away or something of that sort... but I don't know how to make that happen without the mission failing.  Any idea how I might do this?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

Edited July 10, 2023 by Ultimo

[cranebump]

Initial thoughts (and then some...I kinda started rolling along).:-)

Spoiler

Intriguing idea. Reminds me of a book I read decades ago called The Physics of Immortality, which posited that, since the universe will eventually collapse billions of years from now, that human beings will have to populate the universe, and seed it with machines that will cause it to change direction. So, interestingly, "severing bonds" just hastens the process, from the standpoint of what we know about actual physics. Malephar is hastening everyone's destruction.:-)

 

That aside, since you're doing a Paragon City version of the first Avengers film (for lack of a better comparison), then I think we need to think about what ultimately ended that one. The invasion force was wiped out by destroying the control center, rather than piecemeal. I'm not recommending you do exactly this, by any means. But I think you can take a cue from the idea in that, whatever stops this thing is not a direct confrontation with the enemy (which is what your aiming for anyway, right?). So, here's some example of how you might approach this, with a recommendation. 

 

1. If we build it, they will stop (aka, create a device that turns the tide): Reed Richards stopped Galactos with The Ultimate Nullifier. Then he gave it to him, and he left. This is a "race against time" scenario, where the heroes must gather A.B. and C to create the device. If you wanted to tie it to lore, I'd suggest using the PsychoChronoMetron (PCM), from the Faultline Arcs. The original one is destroyed, but...maybe there's another one. Or maybe they can construct it, but making it work on the bad guys means they need brain scans from the Brass Men to target them directly. The issue: the Bad Guys are chasing them (or getting ready to assault the lab at some point), and someone from the inside wants the device for themselves when it is done (so you have to fight off an ally who attempts to take the thing.
2. I've changed my mind! (aka Negotiate): Astro City story found here. This one basically is the son of the big bad talks his mom down from destroying everything. This would be a truly interesting approach, but your big bad would have to care about someone on Earth for this to work. Like maybe one of the heroes is his illegitimate son/daughter. We might also discover that Earth is a particular target for the BB, in that he lost someone he loved here (the child's mother), and blames the whole planet, so he's delaying the implementation of his plan to cause as much pain to people as possible. The party would eventually have to fight through the bad guys in Mal's HQ, so that the son/daughter could address them.
3. Whoops - THAT didn't work (aka Turn the alien tech back on the aliens): Someone constructs a widget that makes the anti-tether tech do the opposite. It makes the tethers stronger (which, as we find out later, actually slows the process of collapse). This is a play on idea 1, wherein, when bad guy flips switch, it just f's up his entire plan. Heroes have to get the widget constructed, then placed on the devices. Twist: the actual widget exists in Praetoria, at a different point in time, so they have to defeat some of Cole's LT's to get what they need.
4. Nasty Virus (aka No more Brass Men): Something here infects them, a la War of the Worlds (like...chicken pox).:-) The heroes have to unleash a virus that has been eradicated, because it affects the Brass Men. The challenge here is using a disease that is so completely gone, we have to find a way to recreate it. Cue Doc Vahz maybe? Or maybe they have to time travel.
5. Removal of a key figure (aka "Death of the Khan"): When the Mongols were knocking on the door of Eastern Europe, they were thwarted when Great Khan Ögedei died. IIRC, they had to return to home base for funeral rites or something, and just never came back. For this to work, you'd have to have factions supporting Mal, and the factions just break up due to the death of key figure (like maybe what that faction provides can't be replicated easily, and only that faction provides it). SPIN ON THIS IDEA: Rather than the death, maybe the capture of a key figure changes thing. Perhaps Mal's child, who has been brought here to witness dad's victory (i.e. learn the ropes), but then discovers that the humans are actually not what they thought, and convinces dad to back off (see #2, above).

 

I think #1 is the most easily doable, esp if it's the PCM. It lends itself to info and tech retrieval and targeted defeats. Which means your players are a select squad targeting things outside the main fight. Easier to manage, and you can use various maps in Paragon, where the bad guys have taken up shop. In addition, some of the villainous factions in this locations can be working with the heroes, so you could have allies among CoT, Council, etc. Might be a hoot to work alongside people you defeat in this Task Forces. The most interesting, from a story perspective, are #'s 2 and 5, but crafting missions where you target Mal's kid is a toughie. You'd almost have to capture them, or discover who they are by accident.

 

If you wanted to combine something like 1 and 2, the child could be taken prisoner during one of the PCM missions (he's in charge of defending a key outpost or something). Capture kid thinks he'll be tortured, but he's not. Convinced by the benevolence/enlightened nature of humans (or the fact that his dad is actually causing the destruction of the entire universe), he reveals how to defeat dad, by giving the info on Brass Men (or where to get it). Then Mal gets talked down the combo of his, let's say his son's revelation that the humans are smart, and can probably help figure out how to stop the collapse, given time. But if Mal doesn't stop, they use the PCM. Maybe, as an added effect, it will kill some of the hero population, too, but it's a price they're willing to pay (which should impress Mal, who views them as weak?). In any case, getting that huge force together was a huge undertaking. And maybe the PCM kills Mal, too (or might). So he calls it off. Then perhaps the son gets outcast to earth, or chooses to stay, as an insurance policy (so, this NPC is your "Silver Surfer.")

 

Anyhoo, them's my ideas on that. Your premise is great. Kinda wish I'd thought of it.:-)

 

Good luck, kemosabe,

Crane

 

Edited July 10, 2023 by cranebump

[Ultimo]

Thanks for the feedback and ideas!

I can see #1 working... the Galactus vs Nullifier idea could work really quite well, since one of the heroes to be rescued is a Reed Richards homage character...

 

#2 probably wouldn't work, because the child of the big bad is based on Kalibak... and he's not the most diplomatic, relatable type.

#3 is nifty, as a fan of HG Wells (indeed, I have a gang of low level villains I've named "The Noobs," one of whom is named Herbert G. Verne), but I don't want to wipe out the Brass Men... plus it's kind of been done before.  Moreover, I love the idea of having Dr. Vazhilok working on the side of the angels.

 

#5 is kind of the direction I had been going in... but I'm not sure quite how to get there.  The idea is the heroes would do something to draw out the leaders of the Brass Men, and then draw out Malephar himself by defeating them.  As I say, I just don't quite know how to get to that point... but you've given me some great ideas to work with!

[Ultimo]

Uuuuuughhh.  Just CANNOT get the balancing right.

 

Since it seemed the enemies were too easy, I added a couple of powers here and there, and now they're completely unplayable.  A slight tweak, and they go from doing 40-50 damage per attack to 500-900 per attack.  They're now basically oneshotting my Brute.  If he can't stand up to them, how would my Controller manage?  My Mastermind?  Just impossible to balance this damn thing.

[Ultimo]

Ok... new problem.

 

The first mission is about done... but it has a couple of problems I can't seem to sort out.

 

First, there's a boss to fight, but he's supposed to run away at 75%.  Instead, he stops fighting and just stands there.  I can't figure out why he won't run away.

Second, there's a bunch of captives to free.  I'd like THEM to run away once freed... but they ALSO won't move.

 

Finally, is there a way to make an NPC  say stuff IN the mission?  In a later mission, the PCs would rescue someone and he would give them a new briefing... a mission within the mission.

[cranebump]

Not sure of the first 2 issues (seems like a glitch or a map problem), but you can use the attached Clues screen to have rescues “talk.” I usually color code the text yellow to indicate speech. You’re limited to 300 characters though. Bosses have a significant amount of dialogue text, so you could make a friendly boss and use some of that. But the player doesn’t get a notification as they do with Clues, so they d need to be paying attention to NPC chatter.

 

I’d use the clues screen, then have the new “mission” objective chained to the rescue. It would then appear in the Nav text (i.e. “Find Nemo!”

Edited August 26, 2023 by cranebump

[Ankylosaur]

As @cranebump says, the first two issues may be map related. I know, for example, on Croatoa maps where there are no doors, they have nowhere to escape too and that can cause issues. 

 

As to the second one. Here's tactics I have used/seen

1. Escorts are a way to have someone say something during part of a mission when they reach their objective. Make them non-required, but still give them rescue Nav text and then you skirt the issue of the mission failing if they die.
2. Like @cranebump suggested clues are another.
3. One I have never tried, but saw in "The news of my death is not exaggerated" (or similarly named dev's choice), is to have the rescue not flee, but instead stand there with some sort of clue to you to read their description to converse with them. Clever way to get 1000 characters or whatever the limit is there.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Ankylosaur

[Ultimo]

Ok, I changed the first map, the new one is better anyway.

 

So, I published it.  There's five missions, but only the first one is really playable.  I'm hoping people will play the first mission and give some feedback.  It's up to you if you try the other missions, but they're very unfinished at present.

 

Any thoughts would be useful.  If you DO play the subsequent missions, I'm most concerned by the difficulty of the bosses.

 

It's all VERY MUCH a work in progress... but I appreciate any thoughts or criticisms.

[Ultimo]

I could really use some feedback on this first mission... I just tried it with my Tanker and found I couldn't do damage to the boss (Angrief) AT ALL... and the boss has no defensive abilities at all.  He's supposed to be one of the WEAKER bosses... if he's completely invulnerable to any character, then I'm concerned at the difficulty.

[cranebump]

Which mish is it? There are two posted.

 

Disregard. I'm in the right one.

Edited September 29, 2023 by cranebump

[cranebump]

Okay, so I took out Marko, but it was a fairly tough fight. The other boss (starts with a T), I waded into a bunch of adds without seeing them. REALLY had a tough time. Gobbled insps, did a strategic withdraw. Picked off the beamers where I could, then ID'ed him. Stunned him right off, then slugged him down, but he hit pretty hard.

 

I don't think it's the bosses as much as it is the bosses AND the minions. The beamers set you up, and if you haven't taken care of the boss (or the minions), you're in for a fight. Bear in mind, I'm running with a L50 Nrgy/Rad Tank who, while not optimized, is pretty damned tough. 

 

Feels like this should be a L50 mish. It's a a full-scale invasion, for one thing. I wouldn't sweat getting the bosses "right." They were tough enough on the big map. And I was only running 0/x2.

[Ultimo]

Ya, I should have posted, I've added the second mission in the arc, it was pretty straightforward.

 

I had to fix Angrief in the first mission, he nearly oneshotted my Tank character (who is L30 and pretty decently tough), so I had to change his power sets.  I gave him the Electric Control set, but I'm finding he is still kind of overpowered against melee characters, because he zeroes their endurance in 2 seconds, no matter what they do... which means you can't do anything against him... and I HATE that in any enemy.  If the players aren't allowed to do anything, there's no GAME, if you see what I mean.

 

I may reset the game scale so it's all L50... that DOES raise lower level characters to that point, yes?

[Ultimo]

7 hours ago, cranebump said:

Okay, so I took out Marko, but it was a fairly tough fight. The other boss (starts with a T), I waded into a bunch of adds without seeing them. REALLY had a tough time. Gobbled insps, did a strategic withdraw. Picked off the beamers where I could, then ID'ed him. Stunned him right off, then slugged him down, but he hit pretty hard.

 

I don't think it's the bosses as much as it is the bosses AND the minions. The beamers set you up, and if you haven't taken care of the boss (or the minions), you're in for a fight. Bear in mind, I'm running with a L50 Nrgy/Rad Tank who, while not optimized, is pretty damned tough. 

 

Feels like this should be a L50 mish. It's a a full-scale invasion, for one thing. I wouldn't sweat getting the bosses "right." They were tough enough on the big map. And I was only running 0/x2.

Tasker.  Ya, I took my L15 Brute in there, and ALMOST got him, but then found myself permastunned, slept, held, and then stunned some more.  He was down to around 10% health, too.

It's the Psionic attacks, they definitely sting.

[cranebump]

Correct. It will exemplar you up to min. mish level.

[cranebump]

Just now, Ultimo said:

Tasker.  Ya, I took my L15 Brute in there, and ALMOST got him, but then found myself permastunned, slept, held, and then stunned some more.  He was down to around 10% health, too.

It's the Psionic attacks, they definitely sting.

Does one of them use Dual Pistols?

[Ultimo]

15 hours ago, cranebump said:

Does one of them use Dual Pistols?

Ya, that's Marko.  He hits pretty hard too... certain power sets are like that, Beam Rifle (which the minions use) is another that hits kind of hard... but at least the minions use only one or two attacks.

[Ultimo]

Ok!  Up to three missions now.  Working on the fourth one.  First three are published if anyone wants to try them, and provide some feedback.

 

Thanks again!

 

[cranebump]

On 9/30/2023 at 3:22 PM, Ultimo said:

Ya, that's Marko.  He hits pretty hard too... 

Believe me...I noticed...:-)

[Ultimo]

6 hours ago, cranebump said:

Believe me...I noticed...:-)

I've actually changed him up a bit.  He's based on my Warhammer 40k Chaos Lord, who had a daemonic sword that devoured souls.... so I really prefer him having a sword.  Ideally, he'd have a pistol to supplement the sword, but that's not possible, so I gave him some blasts instead.  This should also make him a little easier to take down, because there's no more Invulnerability on him.  Let me know if he's too easy now.

[Ultimo]

OK!

All five missions are up, and ready for some testing!  Give it a try, and let me know what you think.  In particular:

 

Are the enemies too difficult?  Too easy?

Are there any obvious flaws in the plot, or spelling errors.

Are any of the custom characters (many of whom are based on existing characters) TOO similar to the characters they're based on?

Can you suggest any changes to the mechanics of the missions that might better represent what's going on in the story.

 

Of course, I welcome any and all feedback!

 

Thanks!

[Ultimo]

Well, unpublished it.  Fourth mission is misbehaving.

 

There are a bunch of patrols that aren't supposed to start until after you complete the first objective... yet for some reason they're present immediately, before the objective has been reached.  Same with a couple of bosses.

 

I checked the settings, and everything looks correct... any idea why it might be doing this?

[cranebump]

8 hours ago, Ultimo said:

Well, unpublished it.  Fourth mission is misbehaving.

 

There are a bunch of patrols that aren't supposed to start until after you complete the first objective... yet for some reason they're present immediately, before the objective has been reached.  Same with a couple of bosses.

 

I checked the settings, and everything looks correct... any idea why it might be doing this?

What is the first objective?

[Ultimo]

The mission is supposed to play like this:

 

You're trying to lure the enemy into a trap.  In your base is false information you want them to capture, that will bait them into the trap, which is sprung in mission 5.

 

You enter the mission, and the map is empty except for a few other heroes (allies you can collect if you wish) and allied patrols.  The first objective is to talk to Citadel, who is waiting at the back.  The second objective is to activate the computer that contains the bait.

 

When you activate the computer, there's an ambush you need to fight off.  I would have preferred to have all the enemies spawn at the same time, but you can only attach one event (the ambush) to the computer objective, so I attached the enemies to your meeting with Citadel.

 

So, the way it's supposed to go, you go through the empty base and rendezvous with Citadel.  This is supposed to make all the enemy patrols and bosses spawn.

You then go to the computer and interact with it, which spawns the ambush.

 

You then need to fight your way to the entrance, defeating patrols and bosses along the way.

 

The problem is that the patrols and bosses aren't spawning when you talk to Citadel, they're spawning immediately, and so are already in the mission before you ever reach him.

I checked the triggers and they seem to be correct... so I'm at something of a loss.

 

I may end up redesigning the whole mission.

[cranebump]

I assume Citadel is an ally with no enemies around him? If so, the objective is autocompleting when you enter mish, since there’s no need to rescue him from anyone (it considers the enemies “defeated). Once he’s “rescued,” attached objective enemies spawn automatically, preceding the use of bait in your chain. They end up on the map immediately.
 

Assuming I have this right, I’d suggest keying the enemy patrols and boss spawns to the bait. Since they aren’t ambushes, they should all be attachable to the bait.Attach nothing to Citadel. 

Edited October 11, 2023 by cranebump

[Ultimo]

Ya, he's an ally... but it was working correctly before I published it.

 

The other allies also have ambushes attached to them, but THOSE don't appear until you go to them.  It's not consistent.

 

I'll have to tinker with it some more... this thing is taking forever to make properly.