Critique my DM/DA Brute build

[dtaxtman86]

Hi all,

 

I wanted you to check out a DM/DA Brute build that I am working on. I took cross punch on this build to also use Obliteration to reach the 45% cap. Want to see what your thoughts are on it. 

mids_build (DMDA CP).mbd

[Uun]

Chasing defense on Dark Armor isn't a good idea. The set has no DDR, so that defense can be stripped away in a flash. Meanwhile you left big resistance holes to energy and toxic and you're nowhere near the 90% cap to fire, cold or negative. I would lose some of the defense and focus on beefing up your resists.

• 4 points of kb protection is nowhere near enough. 
• Touch of Fear should be slotted with accuracy and %dmg procs. As slotted, it's a wasted power pick.
• Dark Regeneration is a heal. It does virtually no damage. It also has a huge endurance cost which Obliteration does little to mitigate. Slot the Theft of Essence set including the %end proc.
• Cloak of Darkness requires end reduction if you plan to run it (the Kismet %acc won't work in an inactive power).
• Cloak of Fear requires end reduction if you plan to run it. It has a huge endurance cost. If you're not willing to devote the slots, I would drop it.

[dtaxtman86]

7 hours ago, Uun said:

Chasing defense on Dark Armor isn't a good idea. The set has no DDR, so that defense can be stripped away in a flash. Meanwhile you left big resistance holes to energy and toxic and you're nowhere near the 90% cap to fire, cold or negative. I would lose some of the defense and focus on beefing up your resists.

• 4 points of kb protection is nowhere near enough. 
• Touch of Fear should be slotted with accuracy and %dmg procs. As slotted, it's a wasted power pick.
• Dark Regeneration is a heal. It does virtually no damage. It also has a huge endurance cost which Obliteration does little to mitigate. Slot the Theft of Essence set including the %end proc.
• Cloak of Darkness requires end reduction if you plan to run it (the Kismet %acc won't work in an inactive power).
• Cloak of Fear requires end reduction if you plan to run it. It has a huge endurance cost. If you're not willing to devote the slots, I would drop it.

Can you send me what you would do with alterations? I dont need cloak of fear necessarily.  I know its an ask but the meat and potatoes is there for the most part.

Edited August 15, 2023 by dtaxtman86

[jprewitt73]

Your best bet would be to look through some of @Snarky's threads about this combo. He has some really great advice and slotting techniques that should help a lot. @Uun has a lot of great advice as well. Dark/Dark is a very slot hungry build, so you will have to sacrifice certain things to get what you really want out of it. I would highly suggest dropping Cross Punch as that really limits what you can do with the build. If you truly want it for theme or enjoyment, then go for it, but that power is taking a lot away from the rest of your build. 

 

[dtaxtman86]

11 minutes ago, jprewitt73 said:

Your best bet would be to look through some of @Snarky's threads about this combo. He has some really great advice and slotting techniques that should help a lot. @Uun has a lot of great advice as well. Dark/Dark is a very slot hungry build, so you will have to sacrifice certain things to get what you really want out of it. I would highly suggest dropping Cross Punch as that really limits what you can do with the build. If you truly want it for theme or enjoyment, then go for it, but that power is taking a lot away from the rest of your build. 

 

Yea I don't need Cross Punch either. Was just trying to get to Def cap, but since being told of the DDR issue, need to focus on res more i think. Maybe I will get Soul Mastery instead.

[jprewitt73]

1 minute ago, dtaxtman86 said:

Yea I don't need Cross Punch either. Was just trying to get to Def cap, but since being told of the DDR issue, need to focus on res more i think. Maybe I will get Soul Mastery instead.

 

Defense is a nice bonus if you can get it, but definitely not worth building for with Dark Armor. Soul Mastery is amazing though. Gloom is a hard hitting and fast ranged attack and Darkest Night is great to use in hard single target fights. Definitely worth a look. 

 

Also, for your viewing pleasure: 
 

 

Check out this thread to get some ideas!

[Uun]

1 hour ago, dtaxtman86 said:

Can you send me what you would do with alterations? I dont need cloak of fear necessarily.  I know its an ask but the meat and potatoes is there for the most part.

I'll take a shot at it, but this is what I'm running on my Dark/Dark tank.

 

Uundead - Tanker (Dark Armor).mbd

[jprewitt73]

I know with your resistances that you don't really need them, but it still hurts my heart a little to see a Dark Armor without both Cloak of Fear and Oppressive Gloom. 

 

😞

 

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by jprewitt73
spelling

[Snarky]

Built correctly the Dark Dark Brute, pound for pound, is one of the flat out meanest creatures walking.  But….it is not for newbs or idiots.  No offense meant.  Just setting an expectation level

 

You have to understand HOW Dark works.  Dark takes the standard CoH Def>Res>Heal and puts that right in the trash compactor.  Then dares you to say shit about it.  
 

Dark uses AoE stun and AoE fear to mezze the nobodies.  This gets rid of a ton if annoying incoming attacks.  If you do not take both those toggles do yourself a favor and quit reading. Dark Dark uses to hit debuffs to also reduce incoming attacks.  Dark has non suppressed stealth.  When they cant see you eating their friend twenty feet away you can call that defense.  So Defense strategy is this.  Do not waste resources building defense.  you have no DDR and shit is worthless in a tough fight, it goes the F away

 

Now, your big bads ignore most of that.  Soooo… some of the best resists in the game. Do not neglect energy resistance.  It can be built into a nice neighborhood.  I have Tanked Rom on a Master Run because i have energy resistance 
 

BEST heal in the game.  Available every few seconds.  Top of my head i think mine sits at 8 sec recharge.  From .0001 health to 100%.

 

Dark Melee provides very good ST damage.  Bolstered by Dark armor damage aura there is decent AoE as well.  
 

since a Dark Dark Brute is rarely killed you will win any and all DPS races.

 

the most spectacular tacoing of my Dark Brute i recall was a shadow shard TF.  A teammate got stuck in a crossroads in a cave map with tons of big spawns all around.  My overconfident butt went in. Those F-ing eyeballs ignore steath. So part of my “defense” was gone.  Then…..oof.  Rikti, some Nemi and a very few Longbow Wardens do the same.  You need to learn the groups and know the odds.  Only bet on winning hands.  
 

that is the cliff notes.  If you dig around the Tank and Brute Forums you will find my builds for each AT.  They differ from how most people build the armor.  A lot of people do not take all the toggles.  Yeah, I do not think highly of that. A lot of people go “oh, I cannot have good energy resistance” Yeah, I do not think highly of that.  

 

Finally, 

Resistance is odd.  It is very simple, and that places it as the odd duck in CoH game mechanics.  
 

I cannot stress this enough.  Resistance is it’s own Resistance debuff Resistance.  Weird sentence.  What it means.  If you have 100% resistance you can ALMOST never be debuffed.  
 

There are a very few (and i mean just a couple) beings in CoH that ignore res debuff res.  One is an odd all Longbow Warden which you will encounter almost freaking never.  But that shithead is out there.  I am sure there are one or two others who do the same.  They are much rarer than a sapper for instance.  But just to be clear, that power exists in game.  

 

So… when I build a Res toon I build for 100% values rather than 90%.  Then my Res cannot be yoinked out from under me.  In say a Dr Aeon. Those brickers tear through resistance like its tin foil on a candy bar.  

Enjoy the ball of hate that is Dark Dark

 

i will bump my dark dark thrad to top so you can look at that build.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Snarky

[dtaxtman86]

11 hours ago, Snarky said:

Built correctly the Dark Dark Brute, pound for pound, is one of the flat out meanest creatures walking.  But….it is not for newbs or idiots.  No offense meant.  Just setting an expectation level

 

You have to understand HOW Dark works.  Dark takes the standard CoH Def>Res>Heal and puts that right in the trash compactor.  Then dares you to say shit about it.  
 

Dark uses AoE stun and AoE fear to mezze the nobodies.  This gets rid of a ton if annoying incoming attacks.  If you do not take both those toggles do yourself a favor and quit reading. Dark Dark uses to hit debuffs to also reduce incoming attacks.  Dark has non suppressed stealth.  When they cant see you eating their friend twenty feet away you can call that defense.  So Defense strategy is this.  Do not waste resources building defense.  you have no DDR and shit is worthless in a tough fight, it goes the F away

 

Now, your big bads ignore most of that.  Soooo… some of the best resists in the game. Do not neglect energy resistance.  It can be built into a nice neighborhood.  I have Tanked Rom on a Master Run because i have energy resistance 
 

BEST heal in the game.  Available every few seconds.  Top of my head i think mine sits at 8 sec recharge.  From .0001 health to 100%.

 

Dark Melee provides very good ST damage.  Bolstered by Dark armor damage aura there is decent AoE as well.  
 

since a Dark Dark Brute is rarely killed you will win any and all DPS races.

 

the most spectacular tacoing of my Dark Brute i recall was a shadow shard TF.  A teammate got stuck in a crossroads in a cave map with tons of big spawns all around.  My overconfident butt went in. Those F-ing eyeballs ignore steath. So part of my “defense” was gone.  Then…..oof.  Rikti, some Nemi and a very few Longbow Wardens do the same.  You need to learn the groups and know the odds.  Only bet on winning hands.  
 

that is the cliff notes.  If you dig around the Tank and Brute Forums you will find my builds for each AT.  They differ from how most people build the armor.  A lot of people do not take all the toggles.  Yeah, I do not think highly of that. A lot of people go “oh, I cannot have good energy resistance” Yeah, I do not think highly of that.  

 

Finally, 

Resistance is odd.  It is very simple, and that places it as the odd duck in CoH game mechanics.  
 

I cannot stress this enough.  Resistance is it’s own Resistance debuff Resistance.  Weird sentence.  What it means.  If you have 100% resistance you can ALMOST never be debuffed.  
 

There are a very few (and i mean just a couple) beings in CoH that ignore res debuff res.  One is an odd all Longbow Warden which you will encounter almost freaking never.  But that shithead is out there.  I am sure there are one or two others who do the same.  They are much rarer than a sapper for instance.  But just to be clear, that power exists in game.  

 

So… when I build a Res toon I build for 100% values rather than 90%.  Then my Res cannot be yoinked out from under me.  In say a Dr Aeon. Those brickers tear through resistance like its tin foil on a candy bar.  

Enjoy the ball of hate that is Dark Dark

 

i will bump my dark dark thrad to top so you can look at that build.

I am looking at the build that has Soul Mastery in it. Can I get away with Musc Rad on that, or do you think I will need something more like Vigor or Cardiac to calm the end?

Edited August 16, 2023 by dtaxtman86

[Snarky]

2 hours ago, dtaxtman86 said:

I am looking at the build that has Soul Mastery in it. Can I get away with Musc Rad on that, or do you think I will need something more like Vigor or Cardiac to calm the end?

I run cardiac.  Because of putting the final element of Endurance protection AND as importantly, buttressing resists.  

 

Yes, my build is rock solid at 50 without incarnate abilities.  Even the Brute could Tank Recluse in a Master run, without any incarnate abilities.  But I build to theory, and like a vampiric pit bull never stop. So at Incarnate I just keep solving the same issues and buffing the same strategy.  You CAN go Musculature.  But it will make an old vamp cry inside a little.

[Uun]

14 hours ago, Snarky said:

There are a very few (and i mean just a couple) beings in CoH that ignore res debuff res.  One is an odd all Longbow Warden which you will encounter almost freaking never.  But that shithead is out there.  I am sure there are one or two others who do the same.  They are much rarer than a sapper for instance.  But just to be clear, that power exists in game.  

Crey Radiation Defender Paragon Protector Elite have unresistable Enervating Field. Black Knight Black Wardens, Shepherd Prophets and Vahzilok Decay Murk Eidolons have unresistable Tar Patch. There may be a few more I'm not aware of.

[Snarky]

7 hours ago, Uun said:

Crey Radiation Defender Paragon Protector Elite have unresistable Enervating Field. Black Knight Black Wardens, Shepherd Prophets and Vahzilok Decay Murk Eidolons have unresistable Tar Patch. There may be a few more I'm not aware of.

thank you.  again, theses (seem) to be as rare as can be.  as rare as it gets.  i keep monitors on my res values so i know if i need to pop an orange or play different.  but generally with high resistance (100%) you are immune from resistance being debuffed.  in practice if not in theory.  can happen, almost never does.

 

100% res will protect you from all normal res debuffs including the non stop brickers in Dr Aeon

Edited August 16, 2023 by Snarky

[dtaxtman86]

Here is the latest iteration I have made, tweaking Snarky's build a little. I dropped Touch of fear and Oppressive gloom and grabbed Acrobatics and Combat Jumping instead. I did this for the KB, hold, and immobilize protection, which at times became annoying. This gives me a total of 13 KB protection. I took cardiac Alpha. Res looks good, and defense is slightly improved, even though I know the set doesn't have ddr protection, its how it played out with the toggles. I do miss oppressive gloom a little, but I didn't find myself using Touch of Fear much. The damage version of this is Musc Radial combined with Hybrid for the end discount.

Gumbo DMDA Brute.mbd

Edited August 20, 2023 by dtaxtman86

[Zect]

On 8/20/2023 at 7:37 PM, dtaxtman86 said:

Here is the latest iteration I have made, tweaking Snarky's build a little. I dropped Touch of fear and Oppressive gloom and grabbed Acrobatics and Combat Jumping instead. I did this for the KB, hold, and immobilize protection, which at times became annoying. This gives me a total of 13 KB protection. I took cardiac Alpha. Res looks good, and defense is slightly improved, even though I know the set doesn't have ddr protection, its how it played out with the toggles. I do miss oppressive gloom a little, but I didn't find myself using Touch of Fear much. The damage version of this is Musc Radial combined with Hybrid for the end discount.

Gumbo DMDA Brute.mbd 45.76 kB · 6 downloads

 

This build is surprisingly good considering that you have chosen ambitious build goals (high res, high rech and some def on the side) which place intense demands on slot-efficiency. The sets chosen are in general strong options for your chosen goals, and I'm pleased to see the use of sets such as purples and bombardments which offer rare combinations of res and rech to help achieve them.

 

However, chasing melee def and then deciding to pass on the 6th piece bonus from oblit still earns you a slap from me.

 

fig. 1: a sinner receives his due punishment.

 

There remain 3 major areas where your build can be improved:

 

One, you should strongly consider a touch of essence proc in dark regen (and slot dark regen for healing enhancement). This has already been recommended, but it was not explained why this proc is so good: as of the apr 2023 patch, it was still coded to be able to fire more than once per power activation.

 

fig. 2: A completely overpowered proc that should be immediately nerfed; 6 procs from a single power activation on 10 mobs. HC developers, take note.

 

This means that with the toe proc in dark regen, it is very common to get back more endurance than you spent and this turns the power into a dual-purpose heal and +end power. With its short 30s base recharge, you may end up getting more blue from dark regen than from dark consumption (with its much longer rech and much smaller area). I don't use this on a lot of my own builds, because I am obsessed with optimizing for single-target fights (and correctly predicted the MDC nerf, hah!), but most players are well advised to take advantage of it.

 

Two, you should build for more slow resist (the exact amount is a matter of debate; I personally aim for 80%-100%). Slows are very common, and deadly to resist sets that depend on quick-recharging heals. Even the council, everyone's favorite whipping boys, have snipers and galaxies. Because -rech tends to come together with -movespeed, poor slow resist tends to lead not only to loss of sustain but also loss of ability to disengage or to kill the offending enemies. Furthermore, slows have less easily-available counterplay (if confronted with -res for example, you can eat orange insps, or if confronted with -tohit you can eat yellows, however options to neuter -rech are less common). I actually find it funny that @Snarky is so scared of resist debuffing on his literally 0% slow resist build when slows are so much more common and more deadly. (I suspect he's really just traumatized by gold brickers.)

 

Three, you would benefit from more even resist breakpoints. For example, if you are able to hit 83-85% negative/F/C res, that gives you the option to easily hardcap all but E and tox res with barrier or a defense amp. You are also overcapped on the 6% FC res bonus which suggests that further efficiencies can be found.

 

I threw together a quick and dirty illustration of what I am talking about:

 

fig. 3: If I were even more arrogant than I already were, I would give this some pretentious snob name like forumite mids-warriors love to do. Say, "Zect's Dark Armor Framework" or "The Night King Special".

 

Here is an example that is resistance hardcapped or nearly there to all but E and tox with either a 7.5% res bonus (defense amp) or a 5% res bonus (barrier T4, yours or someone else's - you will naturally take damage while fighting, so the reactive defense unique will pick up the last 1.6% or so). Note the cloak of fear is no more. It pulses only once per 5s (unlike most toggles) and is only mag 2. In fact, as a /soul, darkest night is stronger than it if you can find the power pick for it, offering a huge -tohit and -dmg debuff. I do not recommend cloak of fear on IO builds.

 

Finally, a note: gloom is good. In fact, it has higher DPA than any of your dark melee attacks, and is better than many melee T9's, at the cost of being a dot.

 

I encourage you to experiment further and consider tweaking your build goals based on your play experience. For example, going for less melee defense or dropping some powers, which may free up build resources to go for a properly slotted gloom. Or, relying on a base empowerment buff +20% rech which may enable dropping ageless for barrier, if you find that the recovery is not necessary with cardiac and the toe proc. You seem to have a decent grasp of build design principles and the IO system.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Zect

[dtaxtman86]

Thanks for the feedback! What you explain makes sense 😃