How to make a Signature Power system

[PancakeGnome]

I'd love to see a system for "signature powers" added. So players could create 1 custom power that is truly unique to them.

 

I envision this being given to players at creation. But only with a single enhancement slot available (and if you want to level restrict certain effects, also understandable). Then each 10 levels they unlock another enhancement slot....until they are level 50 character with a fully slotted signature power.

 

And the way you make it work is just offering a "signature power" like any other power, but in alternate animations have a very long list applicable animation sets to pick from. ((Animation time would be standardized by type). 

 

Melee

ST Ranged

ST Friendly Ranged

ST friendly Close range

ST self click

Centered on player buff

Toggle

Target AE

Location AE

Demi - Pet (stationary - Foot)

Demi- Pet (stationary - Location)

Pet Summon (mobile)

Toggle Pet Summon

 

((and anything else I forgot))

 

Then take the IO system, and make special "signature power recipes" that can only fit in each type. And that's where you unlock all the functionality of the system (it's already in the game, you just have to walk through what you want to allow).

That would let this give players a HECK OF A LOT of customization into their signature power. 

 

I know a lot of people will go "oh no that will break the game and there won't be balance". But I think the ship has sailed in terms of "oh no PVE is too easy" a long time ago. Let people have fun and be a super hero. If they want to be a superhero god they can already do that in a range of ways and go farm +4 +8 missions all day solo if they want..... 

It just isn't an excuse anymore to not giving players the options.

 

Edited January 20 by PancakeGnome

[Rudra]

That isn't really possible unless you want the devs to sit down with each player to craft and animate the desired power.

[PancakeGnome]

10 hours ago, Rudra said:

That isn't really possible unless you want the devs to sit down with each player to craft and animate the desired power.

It would just use the existing animations in the game. Basically the same way you can click through different animations in some powers already, just throwing in a lot more animation options in there (combined with the color options), gives a huge range of possibilities in terms of looks.

Kind of how costume pieces are just a huge list referencing assets in the game. 

 

In terms of balance, just make the signature powers rather weak. It should be more about the cool factor and character than about min / maxing a build. So a toggle buff.... that only lasts 15 seconds before a minute or two cooldown. 

 

Here are some powers in the game any archetype can get in a day ((these are already in the game, this isn't the level of power I'm proposing). 

+30% resistance +50% defense clicky buff. Unlimited charges, 25 minute cooldown.

+100% recharge, +800% recovery, +accuracy, -10% defense. Lasts for 1 minute. 25 minute cooldown

Moderate damage cold ranged attack. Extreme accuracy, immobilize, -speed, -recharge. 25 minute cooldown

 

....

And it's really the same for any sort of power you want. You can get summons, you can get attacks, you can go buy a -800% regen dagger to use to take down AVs....

 

So adding a weak "signature power" system that gives a long cooldown with moderate effect power (but customizable and neat looking) to players just doesn't break anything. If it were a short cooldown power that you threw into rotations and permabuffed you, then I could see it being more of an issue. But a short moment of cool for players? That's very in-line with how CoH does things.

Edited January 21 by PancakeGnome

[Rudra]

8 minutes ago, PancakeGnome said:

It would just use the existing animations in the game. Basically the same way you can click through different animations in some powers already, just throwing in a lot more animation options in there (combined with the color options), gives a huge range of possibilities in terms of looks.

Kind of how costume pieces are just a huge list referencing assets in the game. 

 

In terms of balance, just make the signature powers rather weak. It should be more about the cool factor and character than about min / maxing a build. So a toggle buff.... that only lasts 15 seconds before a minute or two cooldown. 

 

Here are some powers in the game any archetype can get in a day ((these are already in the game, this isn't the level of power I'm proposing). 

+30% resistance +50% defense clicky buff. Unlimited charges, 25 minute cooldown.

+100% recharge, +800% recovery, +accuracy, -10% defense. Lasts for 1 minute. 25 minute cooldown

Moderate damage cold ranged attack. Extreme accuracy, immobilize, -speed, -recharge. 25 minute cooldown

 

....

And it's really the same for any sort of power you want. You can get summons, you can get attacks, you can go buy a -800% regen dagger to use to take down AVs....

 

So adding a weak "signature power" system that gives a long cooldown with moderate effect power (but customizable and neat looking) to players just doesn't break anything. If it were a short cooldown power that you threw into rotations and permabuffed you, then I could see it being more of an issue. But a short moment of cool for players? That's very in-line with how CoH does things.

My Signature Power is I summon a mighty 4-winged angel that heals the team.

My Signature Power is I cause a great stone dragon head to rise out of the ground and encase my foe, maybe even dragging the foe underground (a la Black Hole except with an invisibility component).

My Signature Power is I turn the ground in an area into lava.

My Signature Power is an overwhelming gravitational field that pins foes to the ground.

My Signature Power is... you see where I am going with this?

 

And then beyond that, there is the balance component. What effects/options can be combined that would be OP? How do you address those combinations? Do you scale back the damage to compensate? By how much? What if the ability does no damage but still guarantees victory? To make a custom Signature Power for each and every character for each and every player will need a considerable amount of dev involvement to scale and balance. Possibly even model and animate. Things like that work well in pen and paper games. Though even at that, the game master has to review the proposed power and make sure it isn't too powerful or unbalancing for his/her/their game. And they become much more difficult to implement in video games.

[biostem]

With a bit of power customization, (possibly including adding more animation options), you can basically turn any power into your "signature power".  From what the OP described, it kind of sounds like having the equivalent of a T9 power, only with a longer cooldown and atypical slotting system, while costing no additional power picks, is what they're after.

[PancakeGnome]

2 minutes ago, Rudra said:

My Signature Power is... you see where I am going with this?

 

Oh yea, it would be cool to really make anything possible. But the best we could ever really hope for it just them unlocking animations on a semi-customizable power (using the existing enhancement system). All of the backend systems that support it are already in the game, so it's actually possible for the volunteer dev team to do with just one or two people on it (just need to sit down and decide how much to limit the enhancement slotting per archetype). 

 

And then to sit down and make the powers that have all the animations in it (tracking all the animations down for each power category would be a pain to do, maybe a day or two per power type?). AND THEN duplicate them each for each archetype and do the enhancement slot datasets.

 

Quote

And then beyond that, there is the balance component. What effects/options can be combined that would be OP? How do you address those combinations? Do you scale back the damage to compensate? By how much? What if the ability does no damage but still guarantees victory?

Yea, this is the tricky part. 

I would divide it up by archetype, and make different enhancements for each archetype. 

 

For example, a damage enhancement for a blaster would be 100 damage (usable in both ranged and melee). While area effect would be 50 damage. While a tanker might get 70 damage for melee, and 50 damage for ranged, and 35 damage for area.

 

So at level 50, with 6 slots, if a blaster made a single target blast.... it would be a 600 damage blast. If they did an area attack it would be a 300 damage area attack. Both nice, but nothing breaking anything. While a tankers would be scaled down in terms of damage. 

 

Also note since the damage all comes from 100% procs in the power, that they are unaffected by build up (just how it works in the game).

 

............

 

Or let's say you get a self 60 second toggle (to put it in line with accolades). For a defender, maybe each slot in 5% resistance of defense. So at level 10 (when they get their 2nd slot), that means they can use their signature power for a whopping 10% resistance OR defense!! for a minute.... that's a small inspiration..... but hey, you always got it! and it might look cool!!

 

...........

 

Or let's say you are a scrapper, and want a pet!!!!! Omg game is about to break now.

 

Your pet summon lasts for 2 minutes.... and a damage slot does 20 damage. So at level 20, when you have 3 slots, your pet damage hits for 60. At level 50, your pet would hit for 120, that's as much as my weak defender voltaic sentinel (against level 20 mobs lol)

 

And since the way summons work (i suspect) is it calls a mob with a move set already attached to it. Just 0 out all the effects and it would work, make the enhancements do the 100% proccing of effects. Though it isn't exactly elegant and might end up with cases where a pet tries to do a heal with no healing slots in the power (so it just tries to heal you for 0). 

 

So for the first wave, I'd leave that out and expand upon the system later if they ever find time in the next 10 years. ((there are a lot of things that could be added to the game, so it would be my guess it would never actually make it in, since it requires more work to handle))

 

.................

 

But anyhow, you get the idea. You can be veryyy conservative with it in a way that doesn't throw off balance. Just adds a cool unique power that players can customize and have fun with. 

[PancakeGnome]

14 minutes ago, biostem said:

With a bit of power customization, (possibly including adding more animation options), you can basically turn any power into your "signature power".  From what the OP described, it kind of sounds like having the equivalent of a T9 power, only with a longer cooldown and atypical slotting system, while costing no additional power picks, is what they're after.

I wouldn't put it at the level of a T9. Like an archery blasters T9 rain of arrows with enhancement with aim is about 600 damage on a 30 second cooldown. 

 

The above example I'd do a 300 damage AE for blasters, on a 5 minute cooldown. 

So, 1/20th of the power? Which, yea I guess is a bit low actually. It wouldn't really effect much giving them a bit more oomf (i'm just being conservative in terms of balance). 

But since these abilities would start at level 1 (with a single slot, additional slots each 10 levels), they would be doing 100 damage AE at level 10 (double slotted for damage). Which sounds more about right. 

Making signature powers more useful / interesting / neat earlier on when you have less options, than trying to compete in usefulness at level 50 when everyone is rampaging anyway. I don't really think people need MORE T9 powers. 

 

It should just be a moderately useful power with limited capability. Like a 1 minute self clicky stealth power on a 5 minute timer. Neat, sometimes,

Edited January 21 by PancakeGnome

[biostem]

1 minute ago, PancakeGnome said:

I wouldn't put it at the level of a T9. Like an archery blasters T9 rain of arrows with enhancement with aim is about 600 damage on a 30 second cooldown. 

 

The above example I'd do a 300 damage AE for blasters, on a 5 minute cooldown. 

So, 1/20th of the power? Which, yea I guess is a bit low actually. It wouldn't really effect much giving them a bit more oomf (i'm just being conservative in terms of balance). 

But since these abilities would start at level 1 (with a single slot, additional slots each 10 levels), they would be doing 100 damage AE at level 10 (double slotted for damage). Which sounds more about right. 

Making signature powers more useful / interesting / neat earlier on when you have less options, than trying to compete in usefulness at level 50 when everyone is rampaging anyway. I don't really think people need MORE T9 powers. 

 

It should just be a moderately useful power with limited capability. Like a 1 minute self clicky stealth power on a 5 minute timer. Neat, sometimes,

The issue is giving everyone another free power.  I think a better option might be to allow players to tag one of their primary/secondary/pool powers as their "signature power", but with some caveats - Like maybe said power gains a special effect when you are low on health or end, maybe it does way more damage but recharges much more slowly.  Maybe it costs no end but has a much longer animation, etc.  All of these ideas are nice and all, but when it comes right down to it, I simply do not want to further water down the significance of our already fairly broad ability to select from a wide range of powers.

 

Another idea could be to expand upon the origin-specific starter powers we're already given;  Increase the options available to us, (maybe some elemental choices, a simple handgun, etc), allow us to select the specific one we want, and allow it to be slotted.

[PancakeGnome]

16 minutes ago, biostem said:

The issue is giving everyone another free power. 

 

Maybe make it a power pool option? Instead of a free power they start with, they can take a signature power pool ... where they get to choose 1 of the types of powers (ranged, melee, whatever). Which also locks out the other options.

1) That locks them out of additional power pools. One of the hardest things to choose between. I'm always finding myself compromising with power pools, so needing to give up that for a signature power would be difficult. 

 

2) That doesn't give a free power. It just gives them the option to go down the road of a signature power. 

3) The signature power could be used more frequently. It doesn't need to be so harshly capped in its capabilities (recharge time), since sacrificing a power pool is a HUGE trade off. It would still have a high recharge time, but instead of 5 minutes... maybe just 1 minute?

Edited January 21 by PancakeGnome

[biostem]

8 minutes ago, PancakeGnome said:

Maybe make it a power pool option? Instead of a free power they start with, they can take a signature power pool ... where they get to choose 1 of the types of powers (ranged, melee, whatever). Which also locks out the other options.

1) That locks them out of additional power pools. One of the hardest things to choose between. I'm always finding myself compromising with power pools, so needing to give up that for a signature power would be difficult. 

 

2) That doesn't give a free power. It just gives them the option to go down the road of a signature power. 

3) The signature power could be used more frequently. It doesn't need to be so harshly capped in its capabilities (recharge time), since sacrificing a power pool is a HUGE trade off. It would still have a high recharge time, but instead of 5 minutes... maybe just 1 minute?

Then it kind of sounds like what you're advocating for is the ability to take your APP sooner, (albeit with a slightly different selection of powers and perhaps a bit more customizability).

[PancakeGnome]

13 minutes ago, biostem said:

Then it kind of sounds like what you're advocating for is the ability to take your APP sooner, (albeit with a slightly different selection of powers and perhaps a bit more customizability).

Not even close. The APPs are extremely strong, and are on very low cooldowns and just... very very very good. AND they give you 5 different powers outside of your normal archetype. Like my defender gets a T9 defense ult.... AND a 45% resist to lethal / smashing toggle.... AND a power boost (on a defender!! It softcaps my defense for 12 seconds AND makes me drain AVs in one hit and boosts damage by 80%)..... AND an extreme damage single target attack... all from a single APP.

 

Signature powers would be a lot more limited with far higher cooldown. ((which is a shame, but kind of what needs to happen)). It's nothing compared to the power unlocked with APPs.

 

Though one of the key parts of balancing signature powers was that their enhancement slots were capped by level and the entire thing was done through special signature enhancements. It made all of the effects gained through how you slotted it. 

 

So that would have to remain and not be able to be slotted too early (that, or make the proc effects scale with level, but I don't think the system currently allows for that).

 

 

Edited January 21 by PancakeGnome

[KingCeddd03]

On 1/20/2024 at 12:33 PM, Rudra said:

That isn't really possible unless you want the devs to sit down with each player to craft and animate the desired power.

Isn't that what they are supposed to do to help further the game?

[Rudra]

16 minutes ago, KingCeddd03 said:

On 1/20/2024 at 11:33 AM, Rudra said:

That isn't really possible unless you want the devs to sit down with each player to craft and animate the desired power.

Isn't that what they are supposed to do to help further the game?

No. For the devs to sit down with each individual player to craft a signature power for each of their characters is an impossible undertaking.

[Lockely]

In terms of balance, you would simply need a budget system. You can only have 100 units of power. Each component to it costs X amount and the total of all can only be 100 or less. 

 

I love the idea in concept, but one has to consider if the devs are going to spend the time and effort building the systems necessary to support this, it needs to be worthwhile on the player side as well. 

 

Granted, it could potentially be spun out using the Incarnate System, where they could add a Signature Slot and then you craft various components of it to mix and match. Like the Zeus Lightning that Tyrant has, an Incarnate should have a signature 'move' at that point, no? 

[Cyclone Jack]

How about instead of creating an entirely new power, you just select a single power from your Primary/Secondary as your Signature Power, which unlocks Signature Enhancement Slots.  Then create some Signature Enhancements that can modify certain aspects of a power beyond what normal Enhancements can do.  For example, add splash damage to a single target attack, or a small radius Immobilize to a single-target hold, or splash a lesser AoE buff onto a single target buff, but then also add increased endurance usage and recharge, perhaps additional threat, things like that.

 

2 minutes ago, Lockely said:

Granted, it could potentially be spun out using the Incarnate System, where they could add a Signature Slot and then you craft various components of it to mix and match. Like the Zeus Lightning that Tyrant has, an Incarnate should have a signature 'move' at that point, no? 

I like this idea as well.