Is Burnout worth it?

[Jon]

"Yeah, me an fifty other heroes were beating on Jurassic but it was my second casting of Gang War that won the fight!"

I know you're trying to make a joke, but that second casting of Gang War is gonna win you fights for sure.

 

Heck, I thought I was succeeding.

 

Sure, a second dose of Gang War will help take down an EB that you're soloing, but an AV? Maybe it might finish him off if he's already on the way out. And I know that soloing AVs is a thing, but most players go in as teams. Your Gang War is a drop in the bucket (admittedly a fairly large drop, but still).

 

Two uses of Gang War against a giant monster will amount to what, 1-2% of the damage the thing takes overall before dying? Even if I'm off by an order of magnitude (which I doubt), it's not going to win that fight for you.

 

Against an AV? Yeah, no single power is going to have massive impact (save for some -regen debuffs, which actually would benefit greatly from Burnout in an AV situation). Against most other content though, having two Gang Wars out at the same time is going to do some amazing things to your overall performance for that duration.

 

I mean I'm not trying to say Burnout is useless, but saying it's not highly situational or is some kind of reliable game-changer is a tough sell.

 

Okay? If you actually read any of my posts in this thread, you'll notice that I'm not making either of those claims.

[Obitus]

 

I don't think SS needs improvement. I'd argue that it is vastly superior to other travel powers and that, if anything, the others could use an upgrade instead.

 

Agreed.  After wrestling with various flying builds in Mid's, I've come to regard Afterburner as a near-egregious tax on flying character concepts.  It's immensely fun, and at least Afterburner serves as a LotG mule, but Fly is already fairly difficult to justify from a min/max perspective, because the rest of the powers in the pool have limited appeal.  Hover's really only desirable if you're playing a ranged character; Air Superiority is a decent filler melee attack, but the only times I've been tempted to take it lately were when I was trying to shoehorn in enough pre-reqs to get Afterburner.  On top of all of that, Fly/Afterburner are more slot intensive than other travel powers. 

 

(Except maybe Teleport, which has its own issues.  Both Teleport and Fly look especially lackluster now that we have Sorcery, which provides both in one power pick, along with a pretty sick capstone in Rune of Protection.)

 

And of course, now everyone has ample travel options without spending power picks at all.  I have a lot of residual sympathy for the idea that Superspeed is lackluster as a standalone travel power.  Its raw speed doesn't make up for its lack of vertical movement - but that ceased to be a compelling argument a long time ago.  With the Vet/P2Win store, you've got vertical options from level 2, for zero cost.  In the meanwhile, Speed remains the most attractive power pool because of Hasten, and SS itself provides Stealth in a power-pick-efficient package.

 

As for Burnout, it looks terrible to me except in niche scenarios.  It could certainly use a boost (or maybe a wholesale revamp), but there's no shortage of bad pool powers competing for attention.

[EggKookoo]

Against an AV? Yeah, no single power is going to have massive impact (save for some -regen debuffs, which actually would benefit greatly from Burnout in an AV situation). Against most other content though, having two Gang Wars out at the same time is going to do some amazing things to your overall performance for that duration.

 

I imagine the intersection of "not easily handled by one application of Gang War" and "easily handled by two applications of Gang War" is pretty small ("handled" meaning the use either outright defeats the enemy or does enough damage so that it doesn't take much effort to finish it off). It varies as you substitute different "nuke" abilities but in most cases it's still probably fairly tiny.

 

I mean I'm not trying to say Burnout is useless, but saying it's not highly situational or is some kind of reliable game-changer is a tough sell.

Okay? If you actually read any of my posts in this thread, you'll notice that I'm not making either of those claims.

 

I know you're not. That point was originally aimed at OEM61, who was essentially making that claim. I can't help it if you interjected.

[greenstalker]

I grabbed it on my WS late in the build for kicks and giggles, but I’ve found it interesting to use. The build has perma-hasten already, but I can snag a fourth pet from it. And that’s actually kinda all I need it for. Occasionally I can use it to refresh my med pool Rez on a team wipe, or if I go down, I can Rez and use it to refresh eclipse, mire, and my Rez. Rare events, sure, but they can help turn the tide of a TPK. Sometimes.

 

Try doing double mire double quasar (I did it back in live my WS is not at that point yet)

[Zolgar]

I have a lot of residual sympathy for the idea that Superspeed is lackluster as a standalone travel power.  Its raw speed doesn't make up for its lack of vertical movement - but that ceased to be a compelling argument a long time ago.  With the Vet/P2Win store, you've got vertical options from level 2, for zero cost.  In the meanwhile, Speed remains the most attractive power pool because of Hasten, and SS itself provides Stealth in a power-pick-efficient package.

 

Also, if you're used to ground travel, SS is still a damn fast travel power. I've been running around as a Speedster lately, and I'm usually the first to the door because I run without travel powers so much that I am used to covering distances like that.

[Snakebit]

The point-and-click system is clunky and not easy to use in combat.

 

One bind turns it into shift click and makes it slick as sin.

[EggKookoo]

Also, if you're used to ground travel, SS is still a damn fast travel power. I've been running around as a Speedster lately, and I'm usually the first to the door because I run without travel powers so much that I am used to covering distances like that.

 

Wait until your flying teammates get Afterburner.

[Zolgar]

Also, if you're used to ground travel, SS is still a damn fast travel power. I've been running around as a Speedster lately, and I'm usually the first to the door because I run without travel powers so much that I am used to covering distances like that.

 

Wait until your flying teammates get Afterburner.

 

That requires 2 powers and slots to out perform me on move speed (with one power, no slots used), and even then sometimes I can still win because I am extremely adept at dodging around buildings that they, being slightly less agile will fly up and over. >.>

 

Now make no mistake, those ground travel skills also translate to air travel skills, and my flyer with afterburner would beat my speedster to the door about 9 times in 10.

 

I find that people who rely too much on flight become complacent and forget how to travel efficiently though.

[EggKookoo]

Wait until your flying teammates get Afterburner.

That requires 2 powers and slots to out perform me on move speed (with one power, no slots used), and even then sometimes I can still win because I am extremely adept at dodging around buildings that they, being slightly less agile will fly up and over. >.>

 

Right, but my point is that you don't even have that second power option with Speed. It feels like SS should always be the fastest travel power (excepting maybe Teleport as it's also the most end-hungry and arguably riskiest). That was true until Fly got Afterburner, which I agree was a good addition to the set. I just wish Speed's equivalent was also something equally powerful-feeling.

[Snakebit]

I remade my fire fire blaster from Live and used Burnout. I didn't realize when I built that the nukes had changed so much. It's nice to have it available, but I don't think I'll keep it. Double nukes is a lot of freaking damage but without the End Crash I no longer need consume except to overcome the end cost of the target AOEs.

 

I can see it as being useful for a leveling build, to overcome the Hasten gap. Or maybe stacking Hasten? That would be groovy.

[EggKookoo]

I can see it as being useful for a leveling build, to overcome the Hasten gap. Or maybe stacking Hasten? That would be groovy.

 

I expect pitchforks but I sometimes wonder if Hasten shouldn't just be a toggle, with severely reduced base +Recharge compared to the current power. Then let +Recharge enhancements also buff its effect. Then we all get perma-hasten, just at lower effectiveness, and can slot up from there. I mean, people say it's essential anyway...