Stop having entering my SG base break teams with the other side

[Random Axis]

This is a huge pain in the rear on my vigilante characters and I assume the same thing happens to rogue characters too. It's always been there, but with the massive population increase there are more redside teams to join, and it's reached the threshold of annoyance.

 

When my vigilante characters enter my SG base, it automatically removes me from a redside team. From a gameplay standpoint, this removes a major means of moving around in the game with base portals. I also don't see how it works thematically. The character is a vigilante using SG resources for their own purposes. What's the problem with that?

[Rudra]

It isn't a thematics thing. It is a mechanics thing. You see the same thing happen if you cross through say, Ouroboros. (Edit: That is why it is typically advised for rogues on blue side teams and vigilantes on red side teams to stay in the respective side's zones while teamed with the other side.)

Edited January 31 by Rudra

[Lunar Ronin]

Yep, it's a mechanics issue.  This is why I tell people not to go to SG bases or Ouroboros while teamed and do my darndest to try to circumvent it before it happens, like pulling out Team Transporter ASAP.

[Random Axis]

55 minutes ago, Rudra said:

It isn't a thematics thing. It is a mechanics thing. You see the same thing happen if you cross through say, Ouroboros. (Edit: That is why it is typically advised for rogues on blue side teams and vigilantes on red side teams to stay in the respective side's zones while teamed with the other side.)

I know it's a mechanics issue. Bringing up thematics is to defuse the "Yeah it's annoying, but it should be what happens." There's no gameplay reason this should exist and no in-game lore based reason either.

[Rudra]

6 minutes ago, Random Axis said:

I know it's a mechanics issue. Bringing up thematics is to defuse the "Yeah it's annoying, but it should be what happens." There's no gameplay reason this should exist and no in-game lore based reason either.

The game play reason is how the game tracks characters and zones. You cannot invite an enemy from the enemy zone. (Edit: Even if they are valid participants for whatever you are going to do.) When you go into your SG base, or Ouroboros, or other co-op area, your character is not in a red side zone, a blue side zone, or a gold side zone. So as far as I can tell, the game tracks you by your alignment. And since you are the wrong alignment to be on that team, because mechanically vigilantes are still just heroes, except with a flag that lets them go to red side zones, and heroes cannot be on a red side team, you get dumped. Because non-factional zones seem to have no means of tracking you otherwise. You can do co-op content because co-op content isn't flagged for red side or blue side, it is all sides. Side specific content however? Avoid the co-op zones because the game's engine apparently cannot handle tracking your character other than how it does. (This was a discussion from a long time ago.)

Edited January 31 by Rudra

[SupaFreak]

I guess I've been fortunate on teams to not have this happen yet but...

 

Yea, I have no idea how the code for any of the alignment checks work but seems to me a system similar to SK/EX could be applied to teams somehow.

 

Experience Levels temporarily get changed to "Combat Level" in team situations based on the leader or the task's top level, whichever is lower.

 

Can't something like "True Alignment" and "Combat Alignment" be applied here to leader's alignment for the duration of team of whatever the contact's required morality is for the duration of a TF, SF, Trial?  -with new Prompt to Auto-Accept and Hide option, of course.

[Rudra]

8 minutes ago, SupaFreak said:

I guess I've been fortunate on teams to not have this happen yet but...

 

Yea, I have no idea how the code for any of the alignment checks work but seems to me a system similar to SK/EX could be applied to teams somehow.

 

Experience Levels temporarily get changed to "Combat Level" in team situations based on the leader or the task's top level, whichever is lower.

 

Can't something like "True Alignment" and "Combat Alignment" be applied here to leader's alignment for the duration of team of whatever the contact's required morality is for the duration of a TF, SF, Trial?  -with new Prompt to Auto-Accept and Hide option, of course.

If I remember correctly what the devs were saying, not really. The whole alignment system was a mess from the get go. They couldn't get it to work except by maintaining the original 2 alignments. So regardless of whether your character is a hero or a vigilante, the game can only see you as a hero. And regardless of if your character is a villain or rogue, the game can only see you as a villain. What differentiates vigilantes from the base hero alignment and rogues from the base villain alignment is a flag that allows them to move between the sides. And only by being red side as a vigilante or blue side as a rogue can the game look past your hero/villain alignment and let you on a hero/villain team. It is the zone and your character being in that zone that allows your vigilante to run around on a red side team or your rogue to run around on a blue side team. Take away the zone? And all you have left is hero or villain. And heroes cannot be red side or do red side content, and villains cannot be blue side or do blue side content. So without the zone to maintain your character's validity for the team, your character ceases to be valid for the team and is dumped. Vigilante flag and rogue flag are basically just zone access, and blue/red side content is only accessible from that side. That is also why if your rogue character walks up to a hero contact, the contact tells you to step off, and why the same happens to vigilante character red side. Because your character's alignment is not rogue or vigilante, but hero or villain on the other side's territory.

[SupaFreak]

4 minutes ago, Rudra said:

If I remember correctly what the devs were saying, not really. The whole alignment system was a mess from the get go.

 

Yea, I'd venture to say the code would break my brain.  Aside from Null the Gull following you around vouching for you - I got nothing else at this time.

[Rudra]

55 minutes ago, SupaFreak said:

 

Yea, I'd venture to say the code would break my brain.  Aside from Null the Gull following you around vouching for you - I got nothing else at this time.

Sorry. However, if you want a better example of how the alignment system works and why things work the way they do, we can delve into the mess that is Praetorian alignments and why they can't go red side or blue side until they do the mission that makes them no longer Praetorians. The game engine is ancient and has lots of limitations baked in that the Live devs were and the current devs are saddled with trying to make work despite how much the game tells them "No".

 

(Edit: What makes the Praetorian alignments such a mess compared to blue/red side? The game can only track/process two alignments. That's it. Just two.)

Edited January 31 by Rudra