Objectives missing or broken

[sjj668]

I did one quest where I had to find 7 books in a Circle cave.. There were plenty of false containers but only 5 books. I cleared all the MOBs except a room which kept spawning behemoths that gave no XP. But no books or containers there. I found all the passageways but nothing. I had to auto complete that one.

And then there's this one. Find 7 hostages and free them. Found them and freed them or rather found all of them and freed 5. The other two were standing by themselves shaking like wet chihuahuas  in the cold. I even cleared the mobs within shouting distance. I'll have to wait for this one to time out. Please please oh please when you generate these procedural quests make sure they work or give an option to reject the quest in progress. But really fix them. I loathe the quests with multiple objectives now because I dread the broken ones like these that I spend 30 minutes to an hour looking for a quest solution(s) that don't exist..

[Rudra]

34 minutes ago, sjj668 said:

I did one quest where I had to find 7 books in a Circle cave.. There were plenty of false containers but only 5 books. I cleared all the MOBs except a room which kept spawning behemoths that gave no XP. But no books or containers there. I found all the passageways but nothing. I had to auto complete that one.

Sounds like you found a portal room. There are more portals past that one and you need to destroy the portals to stop the Behemoths from spawning. Also, the books can spawn in that room. So your 2 missing ones were probably further in that room.

 

34 minutes ago, sjj668 said:

And then there's this one. Find 7 hostages and free them. Found them and freed them or rather found all of them and freed 5. The other two were standing by themselves shaking like wet chihuahuas  in the cold. I even cleared the mobs within shouting distance. I'll have to wait for this one to time out. Please please oh please when you generate these procedural quests make sure they work or give an option to reject the quest in progress. But really fix them. I loathe the quests with multiple objectives now because I dread the broken ones like these that I spend 30 minutes to an hour looking for a quest solution(s) that don't exist..

That map in particular is problematic because of how the game handles rendering things. You can run into this problem for instance on the Freaklympics arc where you have to take down the 4 team leaders. (Edit: Example being you "hear" the team leaders as in their chat pops up, but you keep moving through them without ever finding them because they aren't rendered due to number of mobs still on the map.) The trick to that map is to just wipe out everything as you go. If you just search for your objectives, there are almost always objectives that aren't rendered, and so can't be attacked by you or attack you, that will trip you up. In your case, since the hostages appeared, they should have recovered and completed when you walked/hovered/flew/teleported/jumped next to them. If not, then their captors still exist and you probably need to wipe out more mobs to bring their captives into existence to be attacked. (Edit again: And if you cleared the map and those hostages still couldn't be cleared? Then their captors either fell through the map or spawned beneath it, and you need a GM to teleport them to you.)

Edited April 17 by Rudra

[sjj668]

5 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Sounds like you found a portal room. There are more portals past that one and you need to destroy the portals to stop the Behemoths from spawning. Also, the books can spawn in that room. So your 2 missing ones were probably further in that room.

 

That map in particular is problematic because of how the game handles rendering things. You can run into this problem for instance on the Freaklympics arc where you have to take down the 4 team leaders. (Edit: Example being you "hear" the team leaders as in their chat pops up, but you keep moving through them without ever finding them because they aren't rendered due to number of mobs still on the map.) The trick to that map is to just wipe out everything as you go. If you just search for your objectives, there are almost always objectives that aren't rendered, and so can't be attacked by you or attack you, that will trip you up. In your case, since the hostages appeared, they should have recovered and completed when you walked/hovered/flew/teleported/jumped next to them. If not, then their captors still exist and you probably need to wipe out more mobs to bring their captives into existence to be attacked.

As to the first point there were multiple portals in that room which although irritating did not deter my search for containers. While it could be argued that that there were containers here that contained an objective, they did not pulse or emit that intermittent hum, in which case that is still a problem that needs to be fixed.

 

As to the second problem the mobs in the near vicinity of the objectives were in fact cleared out. If the stated objectives are to rescue the hostages then that should be the goal. It the stated objective is to wipe out all the villains that is the goal. Sometimes you get both. In this case the objective was to rescue the hostages - only. To require more than that is a workaround to a compensate for a bug.

[UltraAlt]

48 minutes ago, sjj668 said:

The other two were standing by themselves shaking like wet chihuahuas  in the cold. I even cleared the mobs within shouting distance. I'll have to wait for this one to time out.

 

In this situation, you just usually have to wait for the runner to come back to the area where the hostage is. They will return unless you knocked them through wall and they are stuck outside of the actual map.

 

49 minutes ago, sjj668 said:

Please please oh please when you generate these procedural quests make sure they work or give an option to reject the quest in progress.

 

You do understand that over 95% of the missions in the non-AE part of the game were created before the sunset - before there was a Homecoming - correct?

 

You do have the option to abandon missions and, in most cases, autocomplete them, but you limited in how often you can do this.

 

If you really get stuck on a mission, the first thing to do is to go out of the mission and then go back in.

If you can't find something, make sure to look under stairways.

If it is enemy, look around storage racks. they can be on any level of the racks and sometimes stuck in the middle of one.

If you still can't find an enemy, look in the ceiling rafters/pipes. It's rare, but sometimes an enemy will get up there somehow.

 

If you are solo, just go on /help and ask for help. Most of the time, someone is going to be willing to help you track down what you can not find.

[Rudra]

23 minutes ago, sjj668 said:

As to the second problem the mobs in the near vicinity of the objectives were in fact cleared out. If the stated objectives are to rescue the hostages then that should be the goal. It the stated objective is to wipe out all the villains that is the goal. Sometimes you get both. In this case the objective was to rescue the hostages - only. To require more than that is a workaround to a compensate for a bug.

It is not a question of the near mobs being cleared out. Unless you are dealing with runners on that map, it is a question of enough mobs being cleared out. It often takes (at least) half the map being cleared for remaining objectives to appear.

 

Edit: Also, it isn't a bug. The reduced rendering was intentionally implemented by the Live devs.

Edited April 17 by Rudra

[sjj668]

2 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

 

In this situation, you just usually have to wait for the runner to come back to the area where the hostage is. They will return unless you knocked them through wall and they are stuck outside of the actual map.

 

 

You do understand that over 95% of the missions in the non-AE part of the game were created before the sunset - before there was a Homecoming - correct?

 

You do have the option to abandon missions and, in most cases, autocomplete them, but you limited in how often you can do this.

 

If you really get stuck on a mission, the first thing to do is to go out of the mission and then go back in.

If you can't find something, make sure to look under stairways.

If it is enemy, look around storage racks. they can be on any level of the racks and sometimes stuck in the middle of one.

If you still can't find an enemy, look in the ceiling rafters/pipes. It's rare, but sometimes an enemy will get up there somehow.

 

If you are solo, just go on /help and ask for help. Most of the time, someone is going to be willing to help you track down what you can not find.

I waited and if they were stuck in the wall that is a bug.

You cannot autocomplete except 3 or 4 days. I used that option on the broken Circle quest.

You cannot abandon an active quest. Why, I don't know.

 

I am familiar with getting stuck and hunting high and low.  I have not quarrel wit that, These are bugs. My debugging days are in the rearview mirror. I just report them now.

 

Believe it or not I played the game when it was live. When I ran into issues like this I posted a problem via the game support option and within a half hour someone responded usually by autocompleting the quest w/o the time penalty. That option I have found is not available. Only bug reporting here. What I have described are, no matter how you fashion them, are bugs.

[sjj668]

2 minutes ago, Rudra said:

It is not a question of the near mobs being cleared out. Unless you are dealing with runners on that map, it is a question of enough mobs being cleared out. It often takes (at least) half the map being cleared for remaining objectives to appear.

Sounds like a bug to me.

[UltraAlt]

4 minutes ago, sjj668 said:

I waited and if they were stuck in the wall that is a bug.

 

This is a known bug that can happen and has happened since the game was originally released.

The DEVs have made some the walls stronger, but there are still places in the game where enemies can be knocked through the walls.

There are even places in the DFB where they can be knocked through the walls in the Lost section of the caves.

 

6 minutes ago, sjj668 said:

You cannot autocomplete except 3 or 4 days. I used that option on the broken Circle quest.

 

Yes as indicated. The use is limited.

It is limited so that it can not be abused.

 

7 minutes ago, sjj668 said:

You cannot abandon an active quest. Why, I don't know.

 

Because you auto completed the Circle quest.

The counter on dismissing missions and auto completes are the same.

 

8 minutes ago, sjj668 said:

My debugging days are in the rearview mirror. I just report them now.

 

Then you should know how to report specific bugs instead of just making general statements.

Who was the contact?

What was the name of the mission?

What other information is pertinent? 

 

I'm assuming one of the mission names is "Stop Archon Lucretia & his crew" and had the 2 people to rescue that were shaking in fear with no one around.

If you provided their /loc it would probably be helpful with the debugging. This would help the DEVs check to see if there are issues with the walls in that area of the map.

 

I my experience, if you have an object to find and you can't find it - in most situations, you haven't searched enough.

In rare situations, objects show up after enemies are defeated, so make sure to defeat all the enemies.

 

18 minutes ago, sjj668 said:

Believe it or not I played the game when it was live.

 

Yes. Quite so. Hard to believe based on your post.

 

19 minutes ago, sjj668 said:

That option I have found is not available.

 

You can ask for GM help, but depending on many factors. One may or may not be able to respond in a timely manner.

They aren't paid. They are just another gamer helping out. There are more of us that will help out who are not GMs, you just have to use the /help channel to contact us.

 

I have been able to get GM support the couple of times I asked for requested it, but it did take a while for a GM to respond.

 

21 minutes ago, sjj668 said:

What I have described are, no matter how you fashion them, are bugs.

 

Not being able to find an object is not a bug. 

 

Having two hostages that are still active on a map is not a confirmed bug until you have defeated all the enemies on a map.

 

In both cases, the player not being able to find something is on the player and is not a bug.

 

Knocking someone through a wall is a bug. It's a known bug, and without specifically indicating in what mission of who's arc in what specific location it occurred - there is nothing that the DEVs are going to be able to do to fix the issue.

[sjj668]

21 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

 

Because you auto completed the Circle quest.

The counter on dismissing missions and auto completes are the same.

 

The auto completion of one quest has no bearing on the ability to abandon another. This is about active (red) quests. 

 

21 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

 

Then you should know how to report specific bugs instead of just making general statements.

Who was the contact?

What was the name of the mission?

What other information is pertinent? 

 

I'm assuming one of the mission names is "Stop Archon Lucretia & his crew" and had the 2 people to rescue that were shaking in fear with no one around.

If you provided their /loc it would probably be helpful with the debugging. This would help the DEVs check to see if there are issues with the walls in that area of the map.

 

I my experience, if you have an object to find and you can't find it - in most situations, you haven't searched enough.

In rare situations, objects show up after enemies are defeated, so make sure to defeat all the enemies.

 

 

Yes. Quite so. Hard to believe based on your post.

 

The above post typifies why bug reporting on forums is not workable. There's always someone who has to snark it up because he doesn't like the post. Well YOU managed to figure out what quest it was. If you can than even a junior dev can.  And if the instance is procedurally generated /loc is useless. If not then the pictures are more that enough for someone to zero in on whatever walls may be involved. There are only 7 nodes on the map.

 

Using circular logic is always a good way to avoid a problem. If a thing hasn't been found you haven't searched hard enough, not thatit's not there or bugged in some way. Not hard to believe you can't see that.

 

21 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

 

Not being able to find an object is not a bug. 

 

Having two hostages that are still active on a map is not a confirmed bug until you have defeated all the enemies on a map.

 

In both cases, the player not being able to find something is on the player and is not a bug.

 

Knocking someone through a wall is a bug. It's a known bug, and without specifically indicating in what mission of who's arc in what specific location it occurred - there is nothing that the DEVs are going to be able to do to fix the issue.

Not being able to find something not there is a bug.

Having two hostages cleared of the mobs harassing them and not registering is a bug.

 

Note: this is a bug reporting site. I reported a bug - two bugs actually. What the devs do with them is up to them. If they want more information I will give it to them.

[UltraAlt]

26 minutes ago, sjj668 said:

Not being able to find something not there is a bug.

 

If it is there and you can't find it, it is not a bug.

It is most like there and you can't find it.

 

27 minutes ago, sjj668 said:

Having two hostages cleared of the mobs harassing them and not registering is a bug.

 

Only if it is confirmed that they are stuck in a wall.

That is the only reason that it would be a bug.

Still, this would require you to post the /loc as I indicated.

 

I give up.

 

I have serious doubts that anyone is going to be able to do anything with your bug report.

 

31 minutes ago, sjj668 said:

The above post typifies why bug reporting on forums is not workable. There's always someone who has to snark it up because he doesn't like the post.

 

It has nothing to do with not liking the posts.

 

You provided no information in the Circle of Thorns mission other than you couldn't find two objects and auto-completed it.

I'm guessing I know what map that was and there is a section that is very hard to find.

 

Suggestions are given of how to resolve these kinds of situations. They are ignored.

Suggestions are given on how to get help and you ignore them.

 

It seems to me that you don't want help, you just want to complain.

And that's fine.

[Rudra]

58 minutes ago, sjj668 said:

The above post typifies why bug reporting on forums is not workable. There's always someone who has to snark it up because he doesn't like the post. Well YOU managed to figure out what quest it was. If you can than even a junior dev can.  And if the instance is procedurally generated /loc is useless. If not then the pictures are more that enough for someone to zero in on whatever walls may be involved. There are only 7 nodes on the map.

CoX only has so many maps it can pull from for missions. The maps are not procedurally generated like in some other games, they are premade. So if there is a map error/problem, the devs need to know which map it is and where on that specific map it is. That's why when you look at bug reports on the Report Zone Geometries Error Here thread, players include the specific map name (which you can get with the /whereami command) and where on the map it is (which can also be gotten from the /whereami otherwise use the /loc command). Each map has specific spawn points available for specific mission objective types as well. So if a mission objective is bugged for some reason, then again the devs need to know which specific map and where on the map to look. (Edit: And no, there are more than just 7 hostage spawn points on that map. That mission just randomly uses 7 of the possible hostage spawn points each time the mission is run.)

 

58 minutes ago, sjj668 said:

Not being able to find something not there is a bug.

Not being able to find something is not a bug if it is the Tyrant solo mission or if it is on a specific outdoor city map where the number of mobs the game will show on the map has been reduced despite more mobs than the number being visible still remaining on the map. That was an intentional change by the devs back on Live. So if this is what you are dealing with, then it is not a bug.

 

58 minutes ago, sjj668 said:

Having two hostages cleared of the mobs harassing them and not registering is a bug.

Your post made no mention of defeating the mobs containing the remaining hostages. Your post instead stated they were standing by themselves. That means there were enemy units holding them hostage somewhere. If you had not cleared the map, for that specific map in question regardless of what mission pulls that map up, then there is a good chance the mobs are there but not yet rendered. If that is the case, then you just needed to go defeat more enemies until the missing mobs got rendered. If the mobs had fled for some reason such as you managing to aggro them before you saw the hostage and they ran off because the flee mechanic triggered, then you just needed to wait for them to return. If they had been knocked through a wall, then you just needed to exit the map and re-enter until the map corrected and they were freed from the wall. If they somehow spawned below the map, then the devs need to know where specifically on the map so they can fix it.

 

58 minutes ago, sjj668 said:

Note: this is a bug reporting site. I reported a bug - two bugs actually. What the devs do with them is up to them. If they want more information I will give it to them.

This is the bug reporting forum. If you are going to report a bug, and you should whenever you find one, you need to provide as much information about the bug as possible so the devs can look into it and find a fix. Making them have to ask you to provide more information, especially from an instance map since you can't just pop back on that map whenever you want to get the relevant data, is just making the devs lives much more difficult than it needs to be.

Edited April 17 by Rudra

[sjj668]

4 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

 

If it is there and you can't find it, it is not a bug.

It is most like there and you can't find it.

 

It's axiomatic that one cannot prove a negative. I cannot prove it doesn't exist. Since it's instanced you can't prove it does. I don't expect anyone to to suddenly take my word and rush to look for a solution, but, rather, if others run into the same situation there is a compendium of reports. You know, but reports, like the title of this forum.

 

 

4 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

 

Only if it is confirmed that they are stuck in a wall.

That is the only reason that it would be a bug.

Still, this would require you to post the /loc as I indicated.

 

Hard to confirm they are stuck in the wall unless it is so egregious as to be reproducible at the drop of a hat. I do take your point the a /loc would facilitate the analysis and make the job easier. More difficult perhaps without it but not impossible.

 

 

4 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

 

I give up.

 

I have serious doubts that anyone is going to be able to do anything with your bug report.

 

 

It has nothing to do with not liking the posts.

 

Probably wise.

Whether someone does anything with this report is more a matter of inclination than information. By your own admission clipping seems to be a relatively common occurrence, so one more in the hopper.

It appears that it does: By your aggrieved tone and ad hominem attacks, you appear to take the bug report way to emotionally.

 

 

4 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

 

Suggestions are given of how to resolve these kinds of situations. They are ignored.

Suggestions are given on how to get help and you ignore them.

 

It seems to me that you don't want help, you just want to complain.

And that's fine.

Suggestions which resolve situations are greatly appreciated. Suggestions which are essentially workarounds to a defect (such as clearing all opponents in the hopes of getting a misplace malefactor) are also greatly appreciated but speak to a larger issue seemed to be ignored.

 

 

5 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

It seems to me that you don't want help, you just want to complain.

And that's fine.

Pointing out a problem, I suppose, is a complaint. I thought a forum for bug reporting was an appropriate venue. And with all due respect, unless you are the moderator, it's not your place to adjudicate whether this post belongs here or in file 13.

[sjj668]

12 minutes ago, Rudra said:

CoX only has so many maps it can pull from for missions. The maps are not procedurally generated like in some other games, they are premade. So if there is a map error/problem, the devs need to know which map it is and where on that specific map it is. That's why when you look at bug reports on the Report Zone Geometries Error Here thread, players include the specific map name (which you can get with the /whereami command) and where on the map it is (which can also be gotten from the /whereami otherwise use the /loc command). Each map has specific spawn points available for specific mission objective types as well. So if a mission objective is bugged for some reason, then again the devs need to know which specific map and where on the map to look. (Edit: And no, there are more than just 7 hostage spawn points on that map. That mission just randomly uses 7 of the possible hostage spawn points each time the mission is run.)

 

Good to know.

 

12 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Not being able to find something is not a bug if it is the Tyrant solo mission or if it is on a specific outdoor city map where the number of mobs the game will show on the map has been reduced despite more mobs than the number being visible still remaining on the map. That was an intentional change by the devs back on Live. So if this is what you are dealing with, then it is not a bug.

 

Not the Tyrant mission but also good to know.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Your post made no mention of defeating the mobs containing the remaining hostages. Your post instead stated they were standing by themselves. That means there were enemy units holding them hostage somewhere. If you had not cleared the map, for that specific map in question regardless of what mission pulls that map up, then there is a good chance the mobs are there but not yet rendered. If that is the case, then you just needed to go defeat more enemies until the missing mobs got rendered. If the mobs had fled for some reason such as you managing to aggro them before you saw the hostage and they ran off because the flee mechanic triggered, then you just needed to wait for them to return. If they had been knocked through a wall, then you just needed to exit the map and re-enter until the map corrected and they were freed from the wall. If they somehow spawned below the map, then the devs need to know where specifically on the map so they can fix it.

 

I believe I did say something about clearing the mobs in the vicinity of the hostages. But no. I did not clear the entire map. It goes against logic to assume that someone is being held hostage by someone yet to exist. Be that as it may, what would trigger such an appearance? The extirpation of all other mobs? No other mission required that unless explicitly listed in the objectives. Perhaps this one is an exception in which case I would suggest adding it to the quest requirements. As it is a timed mission clearing a whole board and then waiting for new spawns, being time intensive, would necessitate clearer instructions.

 

13 minutes ago, Rudra said:

This is the bug reporting forum. If you are going to report a bug, and you should whenever you find one, you need to provide as much information about the bug as possible so the devs can look into it and find a fix. Making them have to ask you to provide more information, especially from an instance map since you can't just pop back on that map whenever you want to get the relevant data, is just making the devs lives much more difficult than it needs to be.

More information is usually, not always, preferable to less. The trick is to figure out what that information is. Thank you for your pointers listed above. Would that it were posted earlier this thread would have been a good deal shorter.

[Rudra]

26 minutes ago, sjj668 said:

Not the Tyrant mission but also good to know.

I didn't say it was the Tyrant mission. I'm saying that Tyrant's mission with its massive numbers of Arachnos forces and one specific style of outdoor city map have the reduced rendering applied to them. On those maps, not just the Tyrant solo mission, not all mobs are rendered. A great deal of mobs are not rendered, by dev choice, because the sheer number of mobs on those maps was causing problems for some systems. That means on those maps the player will need to wipe out mobs on the map until the ones they are looking for finally get rendered on the map and become available to fight.

 

26 minutes ago, sjj668 said:

I believe I did say something about clearing the mobs in the vicinity of the hostages.

You did say you had cleared mobs with a set range of the hostages, yes, but you also said the hostages were just standing there without captors when you found them.

 

26 minutes ago, sjj668 said:

It goes against logic to assume that someone is being held hostage by someone yet to exist. Be that as it may, what would trigger such an appearance? The extirpation of all other mobs? No other mission required that unless explicitly listed in the objectives. Perhaps this one is an exception in which case I would suggest adding it to the quest requirements. As it is a timed mission clearing a whole board and then waiting for new spawns, being time intensive, would necessitate clearer instructions.

As I have said multiple times on this thread, if mobs are missing on specific maps, the only way to get them to appear is to defeat enough mobs on the map that the mission finally renders the missing ones. Since the hostages themselves were rendered, then their captors should have also been rendered as being part of that spawn. The captors may not have been rendered for limit of mob renderings still being achieved without them, so my recommendation would have been to keep defeating enemies or submit a support ticket in hopes a GM responds in time to force the mobs to you. Otherwise, they may have popped into existence hidden by a wall. In that case, exiting and re-entering the map, then checking the hostages to see if they had captors would have most likely solved the problem. If you managed to fight the mobs before seeing the hostages and they ran, then simply waiting would have brought the captors back and you could deal with them. They shouldn't take longer than a few minutes to get back. Maybe 5 minutes. If they fell through the floor or if they spawned below the floor, a problem that happens on some maps, then the specific location of the hostages, so the location of their captors could be identified, on the specific map you were on, is needed for the devs to be able to do anything. And also in this case, submitting a ticket to a GM to get them to force the mobs to you if they were able to respond in time would also enable you to complete the mission. (Still report the bug though.)

 

Edit: To be clear because you still seem to not understand what I am saying from your preceding post, you are not getting new spawns/enemies to defeat by defeating mobs on those maps. It is not a case of 'defeat all and then more appear to defeat'. The game limits the number of mobs it will render, and as you defeat enemies on those specific maps, already existing enemies become visible as the game renders them for them falling within the number of mobs it will/can render at once. So depending on when the game decides the mobs you are looking for are one of the mobs it is rendering, then you can find and defeat them, but they were always there from when the mission started.

Edited April 17 by Rudra

[sjj668]

4 hours ago, Rudra said:

Edit: To be clear because you still seem to not understand what I am saying from your preceding post, you are not getting new spawns/enemies to defeat by defeating mobs on those maps. It is not a case of 'defeat all and then more appear to defeat'. The game limits the number of mobs it will render, and as you defeat enemies on those specific maps, already existing enemies become visible as the game renders them for them falling within the number of mobs it will/can render at once. So depending on when the game decides the mobs you are looking for are one of the mobs it is rendering, then you can find and defeat them, but they were always there from when the mission started.

I see your point now. It would be nice if the mobs that count took precedence over the ones that don't. Perhaps that is too much to ask for.