Agatha All Along

[The_real_blerd]

On 9/20/2024 at 8:31 AM, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

Small update:

It's nice to see a show generating a LOT of fan theories and positive interaction on the interwebs again.

Read a GOOD one, but it's gonna turn the happy campy singalong vibe on its head if it's true...

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"Teen" isn't Billy. He's Nick Scratch, Agatha's son.

 

And one way of proving to any passing multidimensional horror that you will do absolutely anything for power, especially the likes of the Darkhold...

...would be to offer your own flesh and blood for it.

 

If the Road's test involve confronting your own worst nightmares, I wonder what Agatha's is going to be...?

 

I agree with this theory and for pretty much the same reasoning.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Okay, witches, here we go...

Spoiler

• Rules of the road: DO NOT LEAVE THE ROAD. No powers, even if you'd got any. Trust no-one and nothing.
  Maybe a safety briefing woulda been nice: exits are here, here and here.
• Each test/deathtrap is made to fit each witch. Given what we know about Goopy girl Jen, a horrifically preppy Hamptons wine party seems like her environment, and poisoning people exactly the kind of b**ch-witch thing she'd do. (Which might have led to her binding.)
• At the risk of cronesplaining, I have a thought. If you read Tarot, one of the Big Damn Majors is Judgement. People get scared of it, but for the wrong reasons: no-one else is going to judge you, though guilt might make you afraid of that. It means you're stuck. Usually because of something you're doing that doesn't serve you any more, or something you've done that you need to account for. If you can accept, confront and let go of the thing that's holding you back, you get to the good side of the Judgement Day story... renewal and rebirth. Freedom. And it's specifically shown on a classic card as rising from the grave.
• In the trip sequence, we get flashes of what's messing with each one's head. 
  Jen is half-drowned in water.
  Alice witnesses a fire.
  Sharon the gardener (earth) relives the takeover of Westview.
  And Lilia sees a spirit (air).
  And there's Agatha with... that book in a bassinet. Called it.
• But I didn't expect them to say it out loud as well. Agatha traded a kid for the Darkhold, and wouldn't recognise him if she saw him.
• He could be dead, could have grown up into a fine young witch (cue Teen gasp)...
• ...or he could be an Agent Of Mephisto. 
  I proper cackled at that. They're screwing with us and they know it. 
• Teen turns out to be their saving grace already - his blood hasn't been poisoned. But again, I think that's metaphorical. Teen is the only one of this crew who hasn't got something to cleanse himself of. 
• Yes, including "Sharon". Like I said, trust nothing and no-one you see. Even if it's not the same person you're suspicious of at any one time. For example, anyone who sneaks off to give Teen a quick plot-revealing/faith-shaking sidebar, while their acting style subtly changes. 🖤
• To help them survive death, Jen's forced to recognise that even if she's had everything else taken, no-one can steal your knowledge. (Good lesson, that. I might nick it.) That unlocks the puzzle and allows them to move through, though at the cost of one life. Or does it?
• EDIT: major potential spoiler about Teen and Rio’s identities just dropped if you like your collectables - wish toy makers would keep a lid on this stuff a bit better. One would involve merging two character histories, and the other... is a bit more leftfield. But given what we know, and a lot of the metaphors used in the show, both make sense.
  Then again, they’re only graphic representations of those toys, not the actual finished items. Marvel knows this kind of thing fuels the speculation… did they plant a red herring?

 

Edited September 26 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Small note for anyone interested:

 

Read a quick interview clip with Jac Shaeffer (writer/showrunner). Spoiler below re the M-word...

Spoiler

When they were developing the series, they dug a lot into the various WandaVision fan threads and theories.

Then they just went ahead wrote the story they wanted to write anyway.

But throwing in Mephisto's namecheck was deliberate bait to to the fans.

As are many of the other references, callbacks and red herrings.

 

So whether or not Big Red's actually in the series, the writers are fully, deliberately, gleefully screwing with the fandom's collective head and I love it.

[FX/GRAMS: dramatic chords, exaggerated witch cackle, choking, gasping]

...eesh, never do that with an Altoid in.

 

Edited October 2 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[TTRPGWhiz]

That’s interesting. A lot of creators will tell you that they don’t read any of that stuff so that if something does make it into the show, no one can say “hey, that was my idea”.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Heh. I don't think any lawyer in their right mind would support anyone's specific claim about that.

(See meme on previous page - and also the current viral junk story claiming he's been in it since Avengers.)

[TTRPGWhiz]

I didn’t say lawyers, I said creators. It’s been expressed by quite a few; Neil Gaiman and Damon Lindelof come to mind most readily. 

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Okay witches, here's Episode 4:

Spoiler

• Okay, poor Sharon is dead-dead. Cue bickering about whose fault that was.
• Foreshadowing: Alice says the road would save her. But from what exactly?
• Is Agatha right and only two can complete the Road, can they all survive, or do they need everybody this time around on this Road?
• Be careful what (and who) you wish for... and Essere Viridis Non E Facile? Well, this is a Disney property. 🐸
• ...and enter THE Green witch, Rio Vidal. (River of Life. Hint: growth and decay, life and death...)
• House #2 is not wanting to be ignored. This is clearly Alice's challenge: waxing moon, fire, protection witch. But again... from what?
• Fabulous outfits and so much tension. But no backstory. Yet.
• Lots of scary things from each witch's culture. Beautiful reflection shot of Alice superimposed on her mother's face.
• Did Rio survive the road with Agatha first time? "...and I get my bodies." Uh-oh.
• heheh... Ozzy tribute, then Evil Dead? Spoiling us.
• Musical challenge stage? (Hint: the EPK interview with the Lopez crew said every version has clues: in this case, it's a message from Alice's mother.)
• That was a quick challenge. Don't get cocky, kids.
• Lilia keeps timejumping, and also having these visions of Tarot cards as clues. Three of Swords is my absolute least favourite card in the deck: Betrayal. Something has done or is about to do something VERY nasty, and yes, it's VERY personal. But who would do a thing like that?
• But Jen's got her power back, so all good. And now it's BIG backstory time.
• Sigils work on the caster too. Huh.
• Agatha seems very keen to keep Teen alive. Given what we now know, Rio may or may not be lying about Teen not being hers to hurt Agatha.

 

So, not a filler episode (with the challenges for each witch, none of them will be), but spending time fleshing out character a little.

Honestly, only thing I'm a bit disappointed about... felt a bit short. Then again, one of the advantages of streaming is you can cut an episode where the story suits, not the ad breaks.

Edited October 3 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[ZacKing]

I gave the first two episodes a try and to be honest, I fell asleep I was so bored.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Okay… so that was...

 

*blink*

 

D+ shows have this habit of throwing the Big Damn Twist in Episode 4 or 5.

 

It did not disappoint.

In fact, the whole structure of the show so far might have been to lull you into a false sense of security.
(If you like Evil Dead movies and the Evil Overlord List too, that helps.)

 

Here we go...

 

Spoiler

• We open - after a suitably foreboding change to the title card - on the insanely creepy Svankmajer-esque Salem Seven, who have accessed the Road and are on their trail. (Nice cinematography there, kids.)
• When Agatha's mum tried to execute her, Agatha fought back, draining her power and that of the coven...
• ...but left the kids alive. (cf Rules 101 & 103). Thus creating her own nemeses.
• Brooms. So baaaasic. But fun.
• Ah, the creepy animals following Agatha were the Seven, not Rio.
  [pulls Post-It down off Massive Conspiracy Board, leaving several thousand]
• They try the Gandalf Bypass, but the Road has other plans...
• ...leaving them in the very model of every 1980s Creepy Cabin In The Woods you can imagine. Seriously, even if you don't like the show, wind through this bit and see if you can spot all the gags. Again, plaudits to the designers.
• Magickal Person Side Note:
  • Yes, to ouija is not a verb, thank you Agatha, gold star.
  • William Fuld isn't a clue: he's the original inventor of the board.
  • Yes, it's a toy. But do not mess with those things, or try to talk to the dead at all... concentrate on being alive.
  • However, if someone did happen to activate one - or contact the other side by other means... the dead, the odd demon (rare), and other Things Wot Hoomans Should Not Wot Of are not bound to obey you, tell you the truth, or be who they appear to be.
  • If they're spirits that haven't moved on, there's likely a reason for that that you might not want to know. Also likely bored and enjoy messing with people.
  • This goes double if they tell you they're bound or submit to binding rituals. I think they just enjoy that. Kinky buggers.
  • Oh, and someone clever can just screw with the planchette.
• Punishment time? Yay! Jen turns really rapidly, and some of the rest follow. Lilia and Teen aren't so keen.
• Hi, Mom!
• Typical jealous girlfriend: I can rag on her all I like, but you try anything...
• Knight of Wands: brave, strong, has a plan... but can be a little impulsive.
• Nicholas Scratch - her kid - is dead. And so is Alice. Uh-oh.
• Agatha didn't mean to do that. But the power she took isn't hers to keep this time. 
• Teen is pissed. (And there's a new rip on his chest in the shape of a rune).
• Agatha suddenly twigs who Teen is, and we get confirmation. It's Billy Maximoff, aka Billy Kaplan, aka Wiccan.
  (This was spoilered a while back - thanks, Funko. Joe Locke has also now posted about having to keep this whole thing secret for two years.)
• And his mom succumbed to lust for power. She had her reasons. But she did.
• Then... well, that happened. What. Just... WHAT?
• But if the crown fits...

 

So, we still have four episodes left. I did NOT see that coming, and I genuinely don’t know what happens next.

I like it.

 

Depending on what our antagonist's game plan is - whether this was their idea all the way, or is making it up as they go along - plans never go the way we think they do. Clearly, neither does this particular show.

 

Edited October 10 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Episode 6, and time for a rewind. If it's every theatre kids' dream to work with Patti LuPone, every movie nerd wants to pull a Rashomon. But here, it works.

Spoiler

• Meet William Kaplan, unsuspecting kid on his Bat Mitzvah...
• ...who runs into a familiar fortune teller. Lilia says his life will be broken in two, then slips a sigil on him to protect him.
• Tarot reference again: Tower/Reversed: disaster may have been averted. Or has it just been delayed?
• Things are called to a halt by an EAS alert about "the Anomaly".
• Seeing Wanda's Hex from the outside - and people just getting on with life as if there isn't a giant red magical zit on the landscape. Then again, people do normalise the abnormal to cope with it. And this is New Jersey, so it probably counts as urban renewal.
• Oops. Driving distracted. Exit William, enter Billy. (And a familiar cop.)
• Some superb acting from Locke and the parents as they adjust both to his new body and his sudden psychic abilities.
• Pause heavily on Teen's room: check out the posters, toys, and accessories, which all cue up parts of the Witches' Road. 
  This all supports my Big Damn Theory:
  • The Road Never Existed. The legend is Agatha's long-con, luring other witches into her clutches.
  • And Rio's been happy to go along for the ride, cleaning up those inconveniently immortal-ish witches.
  • Billy, on the other hand, has either accidentally or deliberately made a mini-Hex (fleeing in terror of the Seven?), and every Trial is one of his dreams or nightmares.
  • So they're possibly still running around in the basement.
• Google time: Agatha is an OG Bad Girl, who's literally followed around by death. She's been responsible for many disasters over the years - plus one hit country song. 
• Bohnerriffic. Nice callback, lots of gags, good exposition scene. Funny as it is, we see how genuinely traumatised people can be by the experience.
• Further great two-hander comedy work between Hahn and Locke as we see the other side of their intro...
• ...and we're back on the road, with Agatha clawing herself out (again). 
• I do love a good "we're two sides of the same coin" speech...
• ...but why do I get the feeling both sides are bad - or one isn't as bad as we think, and the other is potentially worse?

 

Questions remain:

• What happened to Lilia, Jen... and Rio?
• Is Alice dead dead? The writers say so. Then again, if this is an illusion, does this mean she gets to walk away (and Sharon too?)
• How much am I gonna nerd out over Lilia's tarot-heavy trial?

 

Edited 20 hours ago by ThaOGDreamWeaver