Commander AT

[RiktiHater]

On 8/17/2024 at 3:56 AM, Papias said:

I would like to see a new AT (possibly called Commander). It could have either Tank primary & Controller secondary powers (final pet replaced with taunt) or Controller primary and Sentinel secondary powers (keep final pet). This would be an interesting character for controlling the battlefield in groups.

Commander more makes me think something like:

Mastermind attack for first power and pets in normal places but upgrades and the misc thingy are replaced with control and maybe 1 or 2 more attacks.

Armour secondary with maybe a damage aura in all of the sets.

This does sound like a good idea to me but I would like to know what other people think.

[megaericzero]

5 hours ago, RiktiHater said:

Commander more makes me think something like:

Mastermind attack for first power and pets in normal places but upgrades and the misc thingy are replaced with control and maybe 1 or 2 more attacks.

Armour secondary with maybe a damage aura in all of the sets.

This does sound like a good idea to me but I would like to know what other people think.

"Commander" does seem to be suggested quite often as an archetype to make use of (a modified version of) the henchmen set category, yeah. In fact, here's a thread from a few months ago suggesting Henchmen/Armor specifically, as opposed to this thread's Armor/Control or Armor/Support in the OP.

 

Personally, I do think the name fits better with a henchmen set. For something like the OP, I dunno, maybe "Warden"?

[RiktiHater]

7 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

"Commander" does seem to be suggested quite often as an archetype to make use of (a modified version of) the henchmen set category, yeah. In fact, here's a thread from a few months ago suggesting Henchmen/Armor specifically, as opposed to this thread's Armor/Control or Armor/Support in the OP.

 

Personally, I do think the name fits better with a henchmen set. For something like the OP, I dunno, maybe "Warden"?

I did have an idea (didn't post it) a while back for "Bastion" or something similar, an armor/support with multiple damage auras and a few attacks in the support. Warden is also a great name for the control one (it makes me think of prison wardens and that sounds quite controlly). Maybe one called Bastion and one called Warden for each of OP's suggestions?

[nuttycide]

Bastion sounds like a good name for OP's AT idea.

 

The idea for a support/armor is interesting but as others as pointed out leveling would be a pain if we just took the skill sets as they were. One way has been mentioned already, with just replacing some troller/armor powers with more attack powers. The other is giving armor powers some passive or toggled power that adds damage to even no damaging powers (within reason). You can even have some that have a special ability that would make it where the higher your resist or defense you do extra damage.

[seebs]

Support, armor, melee, and ranged sets all exist both as primaries and secondaries. Control and pet sets are (currently) never secondaries; MM is the only pet set archetype, and controller/dominator both have their control set as their primary. I do wonder about the viability of an archetype with a control secondary, but I think if you don't nerf the controls a bit they're too powerful for a secondary, and if you do they're probably not very practical.

[FDR's Think Tank]

Doesn't this all really boil down to the Archetypes core mechanic/ Archetype Ability?

 

These Suggestions would work for Archetypes that do Summons/Armor or Armor/Summons.

 

If you're going with "Tough to Kill" and "Loads of control" I would suggest having a mechanic that plays off that. There are two obvious directions I see.

 

1.) "Lead from the Front", when you are topped off on Health, your Control Abilities proc control effects less often (Only good for damage), but your Summons do more Damage. Summons attack-generated Aggro always piles onto the commander, but you'd have a specific power where you could dump aggro you have onto one of your pets. As your health goes down, your control powers become more effective, but your summons do less damage, as they are "Demoralized" essentially.

 

2.) "Battle Frenzy" - This is basically the opposite. When you are topped off on health, your control abilities are more effective, but as your health goes down, your Summons gain bonuses to doing damage and your control powers proc less often. Summons attacks do more aggro the lower your health is and your less effective control abilities generate less aggro when they aren't as effective. It may still be necessary to have an ability that can zero out this Archetype's Aggro, but it can be set in such a way where it's only available when they are lower on health. 

 

 

It also occurs to me that we are considering the Summons Powerset to be where this archetype will draw it's basic attacks from.

 

However: What if the Armor Set is instead viewed as a Parry/Counter Attack set, rather than RAW Armor. This means it has abilities that reflect/activate consequences when the AT is attacked... rather than doing the typical "Aura" damage that some armorset abilities have.

Edited August 25 by FDR's Think Tank

[golstat2003]

5 hours ago, FDR's Think Tank said:

Doesn't this all really boil down to the Archetypes core mechanic/ Archetype Ability?

 

These Suggestions would work for Archetypes that do Summons/Armor or Armor/Summons.

 

If you're going with "Tough to Kill" and "Loads of control" I would suggest having a mechanic that plays off that. There are two obvious directions I see.

 

1.) "Lead from the Front", when you are topped off on Health, your Control Abilities proc control effects less often (Only good for damage), but your Summons do more Damage. Summons attack-generated Aggro always piles onto the commander, but you'd have a specific power where you could dump aggro you have onto one of your pets. As your health goes down, your control powers become more effective, but your summons do less damage, as they are "Demoralized" essentially.

 

2.) "Battle Frenzy" - This is basically the opposite. When you are topped off on health, your control abilities are more effective, but as your health goes down, your Summons gain bonuses to doing damage and your control powers proc less often. Summons attacks do more aggro the lower your health is and your less effective control abilities generate less aggro when they aren't as effective. It may still be necessary to have an ability that can zero out this Archetype's Aggro, but it can be set in such a way where it's only available when they are lower on health. 

 

 

It also occurs to me that we are considering the Summons Powerset to be where this archetype will draw it's basic attacks from.

 

However: What if the Armor Set is instead viewed as a Parry/Counter Attack set, rather than RAW Armor. This means it has abilities that reflect/activate consequences when the AT is attacked... rather than doing the typical "Aura" damage that some armorset abilities have.

 

 

Yeah we would need new ways of thinking of Summons, Armor and Control if the OPs idea would ever be viable. Just taking what's there as is, is a non starter. As the devs would want a combo that can, you know, actually complete missions. lol.

[FDR's Think Tank]

On 8/25/2024 at 1:51 AM, golstat2003 said:

 

 

Yeah we would need new ways of thinking of Summons, Armor and Control if the OPs idea would ever be viable. Just taking what's there as is, is a non starter. As the devs would want a combo that can, you know, actually complete missions. lol.

 

I was also thinking about it. Mastermind's work a bit like tanks, so long as their summons are alive, because they can shed damage to the summons. The flip side to this is that they need to use SUPPORT skills to keep their summons alive. This means buffs for their minions, debuffs for enemies.

 

We can invert aspects of the Mastermind to come up with something quite interesting:

 

As I was mentioning before... an Defensive Set that focuses on Parry/Counterstrike moves would be interesting. Rather than having "Armor" that's passive/toggle/time stacked.... A counterstrike Armor Set could be set that they give themselves layers. Each time a they are struck, a layer is removed. Depending on the set theme, the layer being removed may respond in different ways to different attack types. (You might have a counter-parry set that focuses on negate/strike back of Melee Attacks, another set might focus instead on reflecting ranged Strikes back at enemies. Still other sets might be geared to slamming enemies with debuffs.)

 

But what about THE MINIONS? How do you keep them alive without "Support"? I was thinking it would be interesting if there were mechanics that toyed with Aggro manipulation. This Archetype, rather than shedding damage to his minions might siphon Aggro from his Minions instead. The Practical effect of this is that this new Archetypes Minions are basically stealthed. Only a High Perception can pick them up without being targeted. However, this Archetype isn't a spidery behind the scenes type who "sacrifices" his minions for his cause. Instead, he leads the charge. So there would need to be Archetype core mechanic abilities, probably in the Counterstrike Defensive set. I am thinking specifically of an ability that allows this commander to target his minion and seize the aggro of anyone targeting the minion. (This would work in PvP, but would have more restrictions. When successful, the target is force changed to the Archetype and the minion gains an unselectable buff for a short time.)

 

The point is this: On it's own, having your defense/attacks locked into a set that requires you to get hit really really doesn't work... unless you have a method of forcing people to hit you. And having minions go around harvesting aggro for you seems really effective... if you can it off them before they are threatened. I think some of these alternative forms of aggro management could be used for other new Archetypes too. Commander is just one possibility, but a Jester Archetype is long overdue too. (Jester would be the Support version of Commander... using the Counterstrike Set with Support Powers instead of Pets.)  Taunt and Placate have their place, but we all know their limits. They only create or erase Aggro. They don't move it around.

 

Naturally, if the Archetype dies, the pets despawn.... but this Archetype avoids needing to constantly support their pet's health by managing their aggro instead.

Edited September 1 by FDR's Think Tank