SS/SR help

[DragonsLair]

So I'm not good at building at ALL. I try my best but I'm sure I've not done this right. In fact I'm so sure I'm wrong I'm looking for suggestions. I currently have a SS/SR brute I'm trying out and would enjoy any build ideas people have. I just want to smack things and live to tell the tales!

 

Briathos 2 - Brute (Super Strength - Super Reflexes).mbd

[WuTang]

Ok a few things to think about, or at least the things I thought about when deciding on this very combination... 1) Rage crash is real. and reduces your defenses, the primary damage mitigation for SR by 20% for 10 seconds. To me that is significant. 2) SR has built in scaling resistances which means during the crash, which is about once a minute, you are going to take quite alot of damage before they are at levels that really protect you well. This can likely be overcome by eating a medium purple, they last a minute, so one might straddle two crashes(??) would have to test that. 3) You have no heal in either power set and you will need to heal.

 

I'll attach the build I created but have not put into use yet. I chose to pair SR with Dark Melee. He's 50 with a couple T3 incarnates (Agility & Ageless), and I can tell you from my limited experience that in practice the scaling resist doesn't reflect MIDs. My build shows that at 50% health I should have 90% resists in all but toxic and psi, that is not the case, it's more like 20% I might have 90%. BUT, that is where I typically stop taking damage and can heal back up from there, so I'm not bashing SR, but be prepared to feel like you are driving a car long after the gaslight has come on.

 

On your build... You want Practice Brawler's recharge at 60 sec or less, what MIDs does not show is that it stacks, which gives you huge status protections. So, take the end reductions out of it and put in recharge reduction. 

 

You don't have the Brute ATO set, either of them, both are great, so try to work them in. 

 

Your Health and Stamina: put a Miracle +Recovery in Health and a Performance Shifter +End in Stamina, and I usually pair it with the EndMod from the same set and then boost is to +5. Also try to work in a Panacea: +Hit Points/End in Health.

 

Work in at least 4 LotG +Recharge throughout your defenses, 5 is max and even better, IMO.

 

You have the wrong I/Os in Hasten and Quickness. Chose I/Os from the "Invention" section.

 

Overall, I think your resistances are too low. I shot for ~40% in all but toxic and psi. The higher the base is the quicker the scaling maxes them out.

 

Knockout Blow benefits greatly from procs, they'll be 90% chance to hit.

 

If you plan to stick with Ageless Core, you won't really need help with endurance from the Epic Energy pool, IMO. And SS usually doesn't need Accuracy either, as Rage covers that quite nicely. But hey, I hate missing too. You could stick with the Energy pool and switch your Destiny to Rebirth Radial, gives you a massive heal and (I think) 200% additional regen.

 

My build has not been used so I don't know the flaws that are likely (definitely) in it. I usually have to tweak something by level 50.

 

Good Luck! And have fun, I like both power sets and I'm sure you can make them work together.

 

 

Brute (Super Strength - Super Reflexes).mbd

Edited September 12 by WuTang

[Doomguide2005]

     Can't look at these builds currently as I am on my phone hanging out while the cars AC is being worked on.  But later I'll try to have a look especially at the SR side of things.

[DragonsLair]

All help is good help, like I stated I have no CLUE what I'm doing in building. I only know the basics, not enough to make a good build yet. But I'm learning from looking at what other people suggest so thank you for the help!

[Thraxen]

You can have it all.  SR is awesome.

 

Super Thrax - Brute (Super Strength - Super Reflexes).mbd

[Thraxen]

+5% defense from barrier was included.  Puts you at 45% even during rage crash.  I played it awhile.  I just kinda hate brutes.  I only have one and its a theme toon.  

[Thraxen]

On 9/12/2024 at 8:05 AM, WuTang said:

Ok a few things to think about, or at least the things I thought about when deciding on this very combination... 1) Rage crash is real. and reduces your defenses, the primary damage mitigation for SR by 20% for 10 seconds. To me that is significant. 2) SR has built in scaling resistances which means during the crash, which is about once a minute, you are going to take quite alot of damage before they are at levels that really protect you well. This can likely be overcome by eating a medium purple, they last a minute, so one might straddle two crashes(??) would have to test that. 3) You have no heal in either power set and you will need to heal.

 

I'll attach the build I created but have not put into use yet. I chose to pair SR with Dark Melee. He's 50 with a couple T3 incarnates (Agility & Ageless), and I can tell you from my limited experience that in practice the scaling resist doesn't reflect MIDs. My build shows that at 50% health I should have 90% resists in all but toxic and psi, that is not the case, it's more like 20% I might have 90%. BUT, that is where I typically stop taking damage and can heal back up from there, so I'm not bashing SR, but be prepared to feel like you are driving a car long after the gaslight has come on.

 

On your build... You want Practice Brawler's recharge at 60 sec or less, what MIDs does not show is that it stacks, which gives you huge status protections. So, take the end reductions out of it and put in recharge reduction. 

 

You don't have the Brute ATO set, either of them, both are great, so try to work them in. 

 

Your Health and Stamina: put a Miracle +Recovery in Health and a Performance Shifter +End in Stamina, and I usually pair it with the EndMod from the same set and then boost is to +5. Also try to work in a Panacea: +Hit Points/End in Health.

 

Work in at least 4 LotG +Recharge throughout your defenses, 5 is max and even better, IMO.

 

You have the wrong I/Os in Hasten and Quickness. Chose I/Os from the "Invention" section.

 

Overall, I think your resistances are too low. I shot for ~40% in all but toxic and psi. The higher the base is the quicker the scaling maxes them out.

 

Knockout Blow benefits greatly from procs, they'll be 90% chance to hit.

 

If you plan to stick with Ageless Core, you won't really need help with endurance from the Epic Energy pool, IMO. And SS usually doesn't need Accuracy either, as Rage covers that quite nicely. But hey, I hate missing too. You could stick with the Energy pool and switch your Destiny to Rebirth Radial, gives you a massive heal and (I think) 200% additional regen.

 

My build has not been used so I don't know the flaws that are likely (definitely) in it. I usually have to tweak something by level 50.

 

Good Luck! And have fun, I like both power sets and I'm sure you can make them work together.

 

 

Brute (Super Strength - Super Reflexes).mbd 41.57 kB · 3 downloads

 

 

1.  SR doesn't need a heal.  You don't get hit.  You don't get defense debuffed.  You won't get much other debuffs cause you dont get hit to begin with.  I like some recharge debuff if extra slots. 

 

2.  If you're constantly relying on the scaling resist you're doing it wrong.  

 

3.  You only need PB once every 2 minutes.  It is handy to have double stacked in very, very few circumstances.  Rommy rez period is one for a scrap.  Don't think it is needed for a brute or tank.  I typically slot an end redux in a 50 build.

 

 

 

 

 

[WuTang]

12 hours ago, Thraxen said:

 

 

1.  SR doesn't need a heal.  You don't get hit.  You don't get defense debuffed.  You won't get much other debuffs cause you dont get hit to begin with.  I like some recharge debuff if extra slots. 

 

2.  If you're constantly relying on the scaling resist you're doing it wrong.  

 

3.  You only need PB once every 2 minutes.  It is handy to have double stacked in very, very few circumstances.  Rommy rez period is one for a scrap.  Don't think it is needed for a brute or tank.  I typically slot an end redux in a 50 build.

 

 

 

 

 

5% of all attacks get through regardless of how high your defenses are. So, you will get hit. Which also means you will get debuffed, and DDR is only 95% so you will also get your defenses debuffed. Higher level baddies have a higher +toHit which also means they have a better chance of getting attacks through. And with your build, if the damage type is anything other than S or L then the attack will hit for quite alot of damage, which you will need to heal up from.

 

Me and my son run farms, he has barrier and maneuvers, my defenses are at +60% and my resistances are all (varying) but stick around +45%(base), except T&P, and I still take damage, because I take at least 50% damage, of the 5% of attacks that get through, until I'm at 60% health and then I'm still taking alot of any damage that gets through until I'm nearly dead. SR is not "you don't take any damage ever," not even close.

 

I do like your SS/SR build for farming S/L though and with all the built-in heals no wonder you don't "need a heal."

 

Hey why did you shoot for 60% def? Was it just for the rage crash? I'm looking to see if I can bump up my DM/SR build with some of your slotting. I do certainly like your regen better, but mine has a selfheal built into Siphon Life, like +190 HP every 3 seconds. So, I won't need to go as crazy as you did. Also, I have to admit (I forgot), but the only reason my HP dropped really low sometimes is because I wasn't cycling in Siphon Life.

Edited September 14 by WuTang
spelling and added a couple questions

[Thraxen]

Just to still be at softcap during rage crash.

[Doomguide2005]

On 9/14/2024 at 7:10 AM, WuTang said:

5% of all attacks get through regardless of how high your defenses are. So, you will get hit. Which also means you will get debuffed, and DDR is only 95% so you will also get your defenses debuffed.

     Yes strictly speaking you will get hit.  You will get debuffed.  Damage will be dealt with primarily by using green inspirations and your passive regeneration.  In normal teamed content those are usually plenty to keep you upright (and without considering Siphon Life)  Add in Rebirth and you've now got a massive heal and between Hybrid and Rebirth your passive regeneration can exceed 30hp/sec and can push your health towards the scrapper max health cap for lvl 50+ content.  This is for scrappers, brutes have a much higher hp limit.

     Getting defense debuffed.  Again yes strictly speaking is true.  But you will be dead long before this debuff becomes significant much less ends in cascade failure (which just won't happen).  Put another way get hit 3 times by a 20% debuff how much defense do have left?  My scrapper against her worst positional defense she'll be sitting at around 44%.  She's still capped vs R and A (each ~20% is about a ~1% loss after applying DDR).   A 20% debuff is just a number I pulled out and given scrappers sit at -7.5% I'd guess it's less for a +4 Cim Boss than -20%.

 

Edit: To be much clearer than above less than 20% not 7.5%

Edited September 18 by Doomguide2005

[WuTang]

13 hours ago, Doomguide2005 said:

     Yes strictly speaking you will get hit.  You will get debuffed.  Damage will be dealt with primarily by using green inspirations and your passive regeneration.  In normal teamed content those are usually plenty to keep you upright (and without considering Siphon Life)  Add in Rebirth and you've now got a massive heal and between Hybrid and Rebirth your passive regeneration can exceed 30hp/sec and can push your health towards the scrapper max health cap for lvl 50+ content.  This is for scrappers, brutes have a much higher hp limit.

     Getting defense debuffed.  Again yes strictly speaking is true.  But you will be dead long before this debuff becomes significant much less ends in cascade failure (which just won't happen).  Put another way get hit 3 times by a 20% debuff how much defense do have left?  My scrapper against her worst positional defense she'll be sitting at around 44%.  She's still capped vs R and A (each ~20% is about a ~1% loss after applying DDR).   A 20% debuff is just a number I pulled out and given scrappers sit at -7.5% I'd guess it's less for a +4 Cim Boss than -20%.

Yeah so what I was doing wrong was......

 

It kills me how deep my ignorance still is, but in my defense, there are still things I have yet to do, so... Any ways, after a frustrating gaming session, where I was literally on the verge of stripping this dude, I went to in game help and asked...well for help. Turns out my measuring stick, yeah wrong stick. So, what I typically do, because most all of my Brutes are setup for general play, is to go into an S/L farm and see how they do. Apparently, that's not an ideal environment to test SR (or any other toon not specifically built to farm), or so I was told. A very kind player PM'd me and suggested, if I already had T3 Alpha, to solo run some +4 radios. So, since I did have T3 Alpha I called one up. AND....it was night and day. My dude seldom took damage, and I was clearing mobs fairly quickly. Fought Council and Clowns without any problems. I have, since then, fought a multitude of different mobs and haven't had any problems like I was seeing in the AE farms. Even did fairly well in some DA mish teams and Tinpex, only the sewer worms got me once.

 

So to sum it up...still learning.

 

How does DDR work? I thought it prevented the debuff 95% of the time, but is sound like you say it reduces it?

 

I've looked at taking Rebirth, but my build's endurance won't hold up. It does drain slow, so it is nearly where it needs to be to not need Ageless Core. But I also wanted Soul Drain on perma, which it is...now however, after playing the build it could probably not be, and I wouldn't really notice. There are times when I don't use it like at the end of a mob when there are only 2 or 3 left standing. I also wanted the Soul Mastery pool, so I won't have the extra End from the Energy pool.

[Doomguide2005]

DDR is more like damage resistance.  It resist a portion of the defense debuff when you are hit by a defdebuff.  The thing it does for SR is basically eliminates cascade defense failure as your defense is barely changed.  You combine that with an SR defense values and the effective change is often zero for a single blow, you remain capped and therefore by the time the next blow connects it's possible the debuff of the first blow has already fallen off.  An enemy with even a small (say 5%) To Hit buff is far more likely to cause you issues (a 5% To Hit requires a -100% defdebuff  to have an equal effect on the foes ability to hit you).  

Edited September 18 by Doomguide2005

[Soulsifter]

I'm curious how this turned out? I'm currently starting one, I do have mine built in Mids, but.... I've proven to be a student, not a master of making builds.

[Story Archer]

In my opinion, this is one of the (very few) power set combinations that are just bad. Not bad individually, both SS and SR are very popular and very effective, but in this specific case they actively work against one another, specifically with the way your Rage crash gimps your defense. I'd suggest pairing SS with any Res based armor set OR anything other than SS combined with SR.

[Thraxen]

I’d just roll an sd/ss tank. I had one before my dip into this pair. And I still do. The ss/sr was fine, just not great. Or fun. It’s fine though and a damn stretch away from bad.