A little more post-20 Praetorian content please (and maybe some pre-20 Praetorian content)

[Rudra]

38 minutes ago, sponazgul said:

I don't remember going back in time. I guess I should look too see if I have the Ouro power then. I feel that that's your interpretation, rather than mine.

It is how the Live devs explained retaining access to pre-fall Praetoria. It isn't my interpretation, it is how the game is defined. (Edit yet again: Even making a Praetorian character is technically defined as making a character back in time to before the fall. Everything done in Nova Praetoria, Imperial City, Neutropolis, the Underground, and even First Ward was all described as happening in the past, and players playing that content are going back in time to do so.)

 

38 minutes ago, sponazgul said:

Yes, I know that the Marchand arc is post fall, I'm just pointing out that there are high level Praetorians - I used his arc as an example, but it's not the only one., To suggest that my higher level 50 Praetorian is somehow an anomaly is weird to me. (I'm not saying that you are suggesting this, my response above and in this post is in response to people suggesting that to me.)

Yes, there are high level Praetorians. Primals fight them throughout the iTrials and some story arcs. Your character is according to lore sent to Primal Earth to figure out how to prevent the war that you can't prevent, though you decide if you will do so (going Hero) or if you will seize the opportunity for your own benefit (going Villain). I don't have anything against players that want to stay Praetorian. My only concern, and it doesn't seem relevant to this particular discussion, is that a Praetorian character that stays Praetorian, how would they interact with things like the iTrials that they seem to have a workaround for doing. Wouldn't Loyalists be fighting against the Primals on those? So to be perfectly clear, while I don't remember if I opposed higher level Praetorian content previously, I don't care if higher level Praetorian content is made as long as it doesn't disrupt/throw out established game lore. So like for some other threads where this was brought up and the request was for the Praetorians to win through their own iTrials, that sort of request I will oppose.

 

38 minutes ago, sponazgul said:

Again, I can see trials set up versus the Hamidon and his monsters,

To the best of my understanding, that was already planned back on Live. Only it was another iTrial for Primals for another tier of incarnate powers as part of stopping Praetorian Hamidon. (Edit again: The last thing any Primal wants is for Praetorian Hamidon and Primal Hamidon to meet and either merge or work together. So going into Praetoria to stomp Praetorian Hamidon and make it possible for the Praetorians to return is something a lot of Primals want. In story.)

 

Edited Friday at 10:48 PM by Rudra
Edited to replace an "is" with a comma. Edited yet again to add "and some story arcs".

[sponazgul]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

It is how the Live devs explained retaining access to pre-fall Praetoria. It isn't my interpretation, it is how the game is defined. (Edit yet again: Even making a Praetorian character is technically defined as making a character back in time to before the fall. Everything done in Nova Praetoria, Imperial City, Neutropolis, the Underground, and even First Ward was all described as happening in the past, and players playing that content are going back in time to do so.)

 

 

 

 

I'll adopt that interpretation that my making a character Goldside is an event back in the past during the Praetorian heyday, but also that my character at level 42 and eventually at level 50 is also in the past, before the Fall of Praetoria. I don't see why I can't have that for me.

 

If lore insists that I must have left Praetoria at my level, well, the lore is wrong, because I haven't left.

[Chris24601]

To me, the need to leave Praetoria if you want to continue your story is basically the same as how, if you want to not be a villain, even a Rogue needs to completely abandon the Isles around level 40.

 

All the 40+ content outside of Rogue tip missions is written as if you have fully embraced being a full villain employed by Arachnos. If you want any rogue-ish nuance at that point you can do the one Rogue arc in Independence Port and the Rogue tip missions.

 

If you want more non-repeatable content you have to ultimately “pick a side”… not literally, you can keep the trappings of being a Rogue on your character sheet… but if you’re doing the 40+ Redside arcs you’re acting like a flat-out villain… or you can pull the trigger and become heroic so you can do Blueside content.

 

It’s the same for Goldside… eventually you have to pick between Blue and Red side or just run out of things to do there. That is the story of every PC as the reach the endgame.

 

While the game has a LOT of options they aren’t actually unlimited. You can write “I’m a Council Officer” in your backstory all you want. Council mobs will still shoot you like they would anyone else.

 

By the same token, regardless of whether you believe you’re the most Loyalist to ever swear fealty to the Emperor; he’s done with you at level 20 and he has no interest in letting you fight for him. His soldiers will shoot you on sight.

 

The New Praetorians won’t let you remain a member no matter how much you want it. You don’t get to stay in Last Bastion after you save the day there. That’s the story you get to play.

 

If you want your own stories that deviate from the canon, that’s what AE is for.

 

* * * *
 

What I’d like is a fairly extensive evaluation of mission level access so that stuff is moved back to “level = timeline.” That includes the Praetorian and Signature Story content.

 

Given the downward pressure on power access (all primay/secondaries available by late twenties, ancillary/patron start at 35) and upward pressure of IO access (set bonuses making up for fewer slots) I think the lower band for many story arcs could stand to shift down a bit (leave the upper limit alone) to make room for more of the “end game” content in the 45+ range.

 

Think of it sort of like the time compression in comics where, despite the real world decades, Spidey’s only been doing his thing for about a decade and the stuff they said happened five years ago at one point instead happened just last year so it all squeezes in.

 

Decide what level various events occur and adjust content to match. Move stuff that absolutely can’t fit anymore into Oroboros.

 

- If Statesman and Sister Psyche are intended to have always been dead from the start of a player’s play through, then move the WWD signature arc to Oroboros.

 

- If their deaths instead happen at the earliest level you could play the signature arcs they occur in (level 40), then restore Sister Psyche to Independence Port and restore the original Stateman sends you a note after you disguise yourself as him in the level 20-29 Rogue tip missions since in the level = time scale they should both still be alive.

 

Do the same for Goldside as well. Figure out where the equivalent events occur; what level does Cole launch his invasion? what level does Praetoria die?

 

Maybe there’s some more room in there for some things to do before the fall, but the idea that just because you don’t want to leave means Praetoria needs 40+ content just runs counter to everything else in the game.

 

Heck, I’d argue Night Ward is only peripherally Praetorian in the first place; Drudges, Animus Arcana, Black Knights, Talons of Vengeance… and even that is done by level 35. First Ward is over by level 30.

 

It’s not really worth the effort, but maybe using the phasing tech to put burning buildings and IDF barricades starting at level 30 and a giant crater in place of the Magisterium with DE monsters rampaging everywhere once you reach level 40 would drive the point across.

 

Praetoria dies. That is the story. You standing around in the completed mission so it doesn’t despawn doesn’t change that.