Tanker: Elec/DM, Dark/ElM, or Shield/DM?

[Onlyasandwich]

I'd be going Dark/Electric myself just for the goofiness of it all.

 

Just so many fun little powers to play with. Electric Melee is definitely not a typical go-to for me on tankers, as it is frustratingly weak on ST damage. However, nothing gives quite such an oddball assortment of neat powers to play with! You have a funky chain knockdown, a porting nuke, and a KD/Stun that would make most controllers jealous.

 

Dark of course gives you the stun stacking baseline in OG. 

 

As always, theme and fun win the day! Go with what tickles your fancy.

 

Shield/DM would probably be the most meta/powerful if fully optimized for softcap with a careful balance of procs mixed in.

Edited Monday at 02:14 PM by Onlyasandwich

[Warboss]

27 minutes ago, Onlyasandwich said:

I'd be going Dark/Electric myself just for the goofiness of it all.

 

Just so many fun little powers to play with. Electric Melee is definitely not a typical go-to for me on tankers, as it is frustratingly weak on ST damage. However, nothing gives quite such an oddball assortment of neat powers to play with! You have a funky chain knockdown, a porting nuke, and a KD/Stun that would make most controllers jealous.

 

Dark of course gives you the stun stacking baseline in OG. 

 

As always, theme and fun win the day! Go with what tickles your fancy.

 

Shield/DM would probably be the most meta/powerful if fully optimized for softcap with a careful balance of procs mixed in.

 

Don't forget to pick up Mu Mastery for Electric Fences for an Immob, and Ball Lightning with Overwhelming Force's change for KD! ;)

 

[evetsleep]

50 minutes ago, Warboss said:

 

Don't forget to pick up Mu Mastery for Electric Fences for an Immob, and Ball Lightning with Overwhelming Force's change for KD! 😉

 

I think this is the thing that I always get aggravated about when I play any of my dark armor tanks or brutes.  When the disorienting kicks in they all start to wander off.  So +1 for some kind of immobilizer.

[Zect]

I'm back. So my question to OP is, why not all 3? 

 

You can rename toons freely, so level all 3 and transfer your preferred alias to the one you end up liking most. If you're only concerned about endgame performance, you can instantly level to 50 and gear for free on the test server. Leveling will highlight quirks of each combo, like elec armor only getting -KB while on the ground - you can get knocked back if you jump and are hit by a kb attack mid-jump.

 

A lot of people will say shield/DM (I see it is the most popular option in your poll) because historically this is the most meta-friendly and optimal combo. If all you want is to be meta and optimal, which is what many people really want when they ask these types of questions, look no further. Shield is among the tanker armors that can get 45% def to all, 90% res to all (although this will be extremely tight if you intend to also take psi epic - you'll be starved for powers). Tanker shields have a number of unique advantages compared to its peer armors and shields of other AT's, such as being able to get ~87% -def resistance just by stacking the mez protection power; they do not need ageless radial destiny to get high -def resistance. It also sacrifices less dps for having so much mitigation. It's no surprise that when you add lifesteal to this you produce the most or 2nd most meatshieldy tank.

 

However, I contend that you really do not need so much survivability for this easy-ass game. Styling on critters by making the objectively most overpowered toon is fun and all, but if you are looking to spend most of your time on 1 toon you might want to make sure the playfeel is right.

 

On 2/15/2025 at 2:27 AM, Shadowstormprime said:

You also get 2 heals and 2 endurance recovers (if you choose to get all of them).

 

Energize is not really a click heal in the vein of dark regen or healing flames, and does not give as much hps. Each use heals about 1.5 healing flames' worth (counting both the direct heal and the value of the regen), but it has a recharge 3 times as long. The main benefit is actually the massive endrdx bonus (stronger even than a cardiac core paragon and fully ED-busting). This, combined with elec armor's built-in rech bonus, makes elec armor one of the best procbombing sets.

 

You also do not need dark consumption for end management if you have access to power sink. Power sink is on a completely different level - it recharges 3 times as fast and with energize will kill any endurance problems.

 

On 2/15/2025 at 2:27 AM, Shadowstormprime said:

End shouldn’t be an issue, so could go Musculature. 

 

Usually, tankers get more dps by taking a defensive alpha and slotting damage procs in their attacks, compared to slotting for res/def then taking a damage alpha. Elec armor has higher base res values than other resistance armor sets. An elec build with resilient core paragon can cap resistances without tough. Combined with the built-in rech and end management solutions this provides considerable build flexibility, frees you to invest heavily in epic and pool powers and to procbomb like a maniac.

 

On 2/15/2025 at 2:27 AM, Shadowstormprime said:

Endurance could be an issue with the combo though, so might have to lean on Cardiac or Vigor Alpha late game. 

 

While cardiac will obviously help (and is one of the better alpha choices for dark/), don't forget the biggest solution to the dark regen end cost problem (and one that appears a lot earlier) which is the theft of essence: chance for +end proc. It rolls for each target hit by the power, so slotting it in dark regen and being careful to use it in big herds can actually get you more blue than you started out with.

 

On 2/16/2025 at 2:39 AM, Spaghetti Betty said:

You would get better mileage out of an epic AoE! The best ones (Dark Obliteration, Fire Ball) have the same radius, are ranged, and still have max proc chances while recharging three times as quickly!

 

Good news: they have better radius. Dark consumption is only 8ft radius. Dark oblit is 22.5ft. You can see this visually when tanks and brutes use the same epic aoe on targets that are uniformly spaced, like training dummies in the Vanguard base or cimerorans on the wall. (However, IIRC real numbers will not show it, probably because on live there were never any effects that increased radius.) 

 

The reason for this is that a pbaoe's radius is actually its range attribute while a taoe's radius is its radius attribute. Melee pbaoes are all flagged to ignore range enhancement, which is why you cannot make them bigger by +range set bonuses. However, what gauntlet does is give +50% radius (and arc strength) and this does work on epic aoes.

 

On 2/16/2025 at 1:29 PM, Warshades said:

The bigger issue for any melee char that is attempting to end sap enemies is keeping them from recovering endurance. Enemies need very little endurance to activate attacks so even if you sap all endurance, if you don't apply and keep -rec debuffs then they will still launch attacks (though may be delayed by a second for them to get a tic of end recovery). Elec/elec can definitely keep a single target sapped since a lot of the /elec melee attacks apply -rec, but they aren't as good doing so against mobs. Even Mu patron AoEs only provide a chance to apply -rec to enemies.

 

This is correct. Even powersink itself is only 30% chance for -recovery. I soloed +4/x8 ITF's with a few elec/*/mu combos; spamming powersink, elec fences and ball lightning did not stop bosses completely from attacking although it did seem to reduce incoming damage somewhat. It is not comparable to fender/corr sapping using +special boosted effects and 100% chance for -recovery powers, and is only a minor perk.

[Syant]

Just want to say don't sleep on Elec/DM super fun and fast play style. Only hole is toxic. Here is my tanker build.

 

soul zap - Hero Tanker
Build plan made with Mids' Reborn v3.7.5 rev. 21
──────────────────────────────
Primary powerset: Electric ArmorSecondary powerset: Dark MeleePool powerset (#1): LeapingPool powerset (#2): SpeedPool powerset (#3): ExperimentationPool powerset (#4): FightingEpic powerset: Soul Mastery

──────────────────────────────

Powers taken:

Level 1: Charged Armor
A: Unbreakable Guard: +Max HP3: Unbreakable Guard: RechargeTime/Resistance3: Unbreakable Guard: Resistance5: Unbreakable Guard: Resistance/Endurance

Level 1: Shadow Punch
A: Siphon Insight: Chance for +ToHit

Level 2: Lightning Field
A: Superior Might of the Tanker: Recharge/Chance for +Res(All)5: Superior Might of the Tanker: Accuracy/Damage7: Superior Might of the Tanker: Damage/Recharge7: Superior Might of the Tanker: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge9: Superior Might of the Tanker: Accuracy/Damage/Recharge

Level 4: Shadow Maul
A: Fury of the Gladiator: Chance for Res Debuff13: Fury of the Gladiator: Accuracy/Damage13: Fury of the Gladiator: Damage/Recharge15: Fury of the Gladiator: Damage/Endurance/Recharge15: Fury of the Gladiator: Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge17: Perfect Zinger: Chance for Psi Damage

Level 6: Conductive Shield
A: Unbreakable Guard: Resistance17: Unbreakable Guard: Resistance/Endurance19: Unbreakable Guard: RechargeTime/Resistance19: Unbreakable Guard: Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime21: Gladiator's Armor: TP Protection +3% Def (All)

Level 8: Static Shield
A: Unbreakable Guard: Resistance21: Unbreakable Guard: Resistance/Endurance23: Unbreakable Guard: Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime23: Unbreakable Guard: RechargeTime/Resistance

Level 10: Grounded
A: Unbreakable Guard: Resistance25: Unbreakable Guard: Resistance/Endurance25: Unbreakable Guard: RechargeTime/Resistance27: Unbreakable Guard: Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime27: Steadfast Protection: Resistance/+Def 3%

Level 12: Energize
A: Preventive Medicine: Heal29: Preventive Medicine: Endurance/RechargeTime29: Preventive Medicine: Heal/Endurance31: Preventive Medicine: Heal/RechargeTime31: Preventive Medicine: Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance31: Preventive Medicine: Chance for +Absorb

Level 14: Combat Jumping
A: Kismet: Accuracy +6%33: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed33: Reactive Defenses: Scaling Resist Damage

Level 16: Hasten
A: Invention: Recharge Reduction33: Invention: Recharge Reduction

Level 18: Siphon Life
A: Touch of the Nictus: Chance for Negative Energy Damage34: Touch of the Nictus: Healing/Absorb34: Touch of the Nictus: Healing/Absorb/Recharge34: Touch of the Nictus: Accuracy/Healing/Absorb36: Touch of the Nictus: Accuracy/Endurance/Healing/Absorb

Level 20: Speed of Sound
A: Blessing of the Zephyr: Knockback Reduction (4 points)

Level 22: Power Sink
A: Power Transfer: Chance to Heal Self

Level 24: Lightning Reflexes
A: Invention: Run Speed

Level 26: Soul Drain
A: Superior Gauntleted Fist: RechargeTime/+Absorb36: Superior Gauntleted Fist: Accuracy/Damage36: Superior Gauntleted Fist: Damage/RechargeTime37: Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control: Chance for Build Up37: Superior Gauntleted Fist: Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime37: Superior Gauntleted Fist: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime

Level 28: Dark Consumption
A: Armageddon: Chance for Fire Damage39: Armageddon: Damage39: Armageddon: Damage/Recharge39: Armageddon: Damage/Recharge/Accuracy40: Armageddon: Recharge/Accuracy

Level 30: Boxing
A: Absolute Amazement: Chance for ToHit Debuff

Level 32: Tough
A: Aegis: Psionic/Status Resistance40: Aegis: Resistance/Endurance40: Aegis: Resistance

Level 35: Weave
A: Shield Wall: +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)42: Shield Wall: Defense/Endurance42: Shield Wall: Defense42: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed

Level 38: Midnight Grasp
A: Touch of Death: Chance of Damage(Negative)43: Touch of Death: Accuracy/Damage43: Touch of Death: Damage/Endurance43: Touch of Death: Damage/Recharge45: Touch of Death: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance45: Touch of Death: Damage/Endurance/Recharge

Level 41: Cross Punch
A: Superior Avalanche: Recharge/Chance for Knockdown45: Superior Avalanche: Accuracy/Damage46: Superior Avalanche: Damage/Endurance46: Superior Avalanche: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance46: Superior Avalanche: Accuracy/Damage/Recharge48: Force Feedback: Chance for +Recharge

Level 44: Gloom
A: Entropic Chaos: Chance of Heal Self

Level 47: Dark Obliteration
A: Annihilation: Chance for Res Debuff48: Annihilation: Accuracy/Damage48: Annihilation: Damage/RechargeTime50: Annihilation: Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime50: Annihilation: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance50: Annihilation: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime

Level 49: Kick
A: Invention: Accuracy

──────────────────────────────

Inherents:

Level 1: Gauntlet

Level 1: Brawl
(Empty)

Level 1: Sprint
(Empty)

Level 2: Rest
(Empty)

Level 2: Swift
A: Invention: Run Speed

Level 2: Hurdle
A: Invention: Jumping

Level 2: Health
A: Numina's Convalesence: +Regeneration/+Recovery9: Panacea: +Hit Points/Endurance11: Miracle: +Recovery

Level 2: Stamina
A: Performance Shifter: Chance for +End11: Performance Shifter: EndMod

Level 20: Jaunt

Level 1: Prestige Power Dash
(Empty)

Level 1: Prestige Power Slide
(Empty)

Level 1: Prestige Power Quick
(Empty)

Level 1: Prestige Power Rush
(Empty)

Level 1: Prestige Power Surge
(Empty)

Level 4: Ninja Run

──────────────────────────────
Incarnates:

Agility Core ParagonMelee Radial EmbodimentVoid Core Final JudgementParalytic Radial Flawless InterfaceRebirth Core Epiphany

ele_DM.mbd

[Shadowstormprime]

11 hours ago, Zect said:

I'm back. So my question to OP is, why not all 3? 

 

You can rename toons freely, so level all 3 and transfer your preferred alias to the one you end up liking most. If you're only concerned about endgame performance, you can instantly level to 50 and gear for free on the test server. Leveling will highlight quirks of each combo, like elec armor only getting -KB while on the ground - you can get knocked back if you jump and are hit by a kb attack mid-jump.

 

A lot of people will say shield/DM (I see it is the most popular option in your poll) because historically this is the most meta-friendly and optimal combo. If all you want is to be meta and optimal, which is what many people really want when they ask these types of questions, look no further. Shield is among the tanker armors that can get 45% def to all, 90% res to all (although this will be extremely tight if you intend to also take psi epic - you'll be starved for powers). Tanker shields have a number of unique advantages compared to its peer armors and shields of other AT's, such as being able to get ~87% -def resistance just by stacking the mez protection power; they do not need ageless radial destiny to get high -def resistance. It also sacrifices less dps for having so much mitigation. It's no surprise that when you add lifesteal to this you produce the most or 2nd most meatshieldy tank.

 

However, I contend that you really do not need so much survivability for this easy-ass game. Styling on critters by making the objectively most overpowered toon is fun and all, but if you are looking to spend most of your time on 1 toon you might want to make sure the playfeel is right.

 

 

Energize is not really a click heal in the vein of dark regen or healing flames, and does not give as much hps. Each use heals about 1.5 healing flames' worth (counting both the direct heal and the value of the regen), but it has a recharge 3 times as long. The main benefit is actually the massive endrdx bonus (stronger even than a cardiac core paragon and fully ED-busting). This, combined with elec armor's built-in rech bonus, makes elec armor one of the best procbombing sets.

 

You also do not need dark consumption for end management if you have access to power sink. Power sink is on a completely different level - it recharges 3 times as fast and with energize will kill any endurance problems.

 

 

Usually, tankers get more dps by taking a defensive alpha and slotting damage procs in their attacks, compared to slotting for res/def then taking a damage alpha. Elec armor has higher base res values than other resistance armor sets. An elec build with resilient core paragon can cap resistances without tough. Combined with the built-in rech and end management solutions this provides considerable build flexibility, frees you to invest heavily in epic and pool powers and to procbomb like a maniac.

 

 

While cardiac will obviously help (and is one of the better alpha choices for dark/), don't forget the biggest solution to the dark regen end cost problem (and one that appears a lot earlier) which is the theft of essence: chance for +end proc. It rolls for each target hit by the power, so slotting it in dark regen and being careful to use it in big herds can actually get you more blue than you started out with.

 

 

Good news: they have better radius. Dark consumption is only 8ft radius. Dark oblit is 22.5ft. You can see this visually when tanks and brutes use the same epic aoe on targets that are uniformly spaced, like training dummies in the Vanguard base or cimerorans on the wall. (However, IIRC real numbers will not show it, probably because on live there were never any effects that increased radius.) 

 

The reason for this is that a pbaoe's radius is actually its range attribute while a taoe's radius is its radius attribute. Melee pbaoes are all flagged to ignore range enhancement, which is why you cannot make them bigger by +range set bonuses. However, what gauntlet does is give +50% radius (and arc strength) and this does work on epic aoes.

 

 

This is correct. Even powersink itself is only 30% chance for -recovery. I soloed +4/x8 ITF's with a few elec/*/mu combos; spamming powersink, elec fences and ball lightning did not stop bosses completely from attacking although it did seem to reduce incoming damage somewhat. It is not comparable to fender/corr sapping using +special boosted effects and 100% chance for -recovery powers, and is only a minor perk.

This was insanely helpful and thoughtful. I appreciate it very much. A few follow ups if you end up having the time:

 

- For the Shield/DM, is there a particular Alpha you would lean towards?

- For Dark/Elec, I was thinking either Cardiac or Vigor (to lean into the healing) for the Alpha. Which would you prefer?

- Less a question and more a great callout on Resilient core for the Elec/DM. I hadn’t though about that one, but really helps with resistances and accuracy.

[Shadowstormprime]

14 hours ago, Onlyasandwich said:

I'd be going Dark/Electric myself just for the goofiness of it all.

 

Just so many fun little powers to play with. Electric Melee is definitely not a typical go-to for me on tankers, as it is frustratingly weak on ST damage. However, nothing gives quite such an oddball assortment of neat powers to play with! You have a funky chain knockdown, a porting nuke, and a KD/Stun that would make most controllers jealous.

 

Dark of course gives you the stun stacking baseline in OG. 

 

As always, theme and fun win the day! Go with what tickles your fancy.

 

Shield/DM would probably be the most meta/powerful if fully optimized for softcap with a careful balance of procs mixed in.

Appreciate it! What Alpha would you look at for Dark/Elec and for Shield/DM?

[Onlyasandwich]

11 hours ago, Shadowstormprime said:

What Alpha would you look at for Dark/Elec and for Shield/DM?

 

My default is Musculature Radial, and it would be a decent option for both. Probably the best option for Shield/DM.

 

Cardiac core is a solid consideration for Dark/elec as well if you build around it to optimize Res values and not overcap.

 

I personally prefer to set my Alpha as a "bonus" rather than a lynchpin of my build. Typically this means I don't like to rely on it for accuracy, resist, or defense goals. I also want to at least be most of the way to my endurance goals without the Alpha, even if I will appreciate the extra it provides. This is just my personal approach given the amount of exemping I do.

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 04:43 PM by Onlyasandwich

[Warboss]

On 2/17/2025 at 9:17 AM, Zect said:

I'm back. So my question to OP is, why not all 3? 

 

You can rename toons freely, so level all 3 and transfer your preferred alias to the one you end up liking most. If you're only concerned about endgame performance, you can instantly level to 50 and gear for free on the test server. Leveling will highlight quirks of each combo, like elec armor only getting -KB while on the ground - you can get knocked back if you jump and are hit by a kb attack mid-jump.

 

A lot of people will say shield/DM (I see it is the most popular option in your poll) because historically this is the most meta-friendly and optimal combo. If all you want is to be meta and optimal, which is what many people really want when they ask these types of questions, look no further. Shield is among the tanker armors that can get 45% def to all, 90% res to all (although this will be extremely tight if you intend to also take psi epic - you'll be starved for powers). Tanker shields have a number of unique advantages compared to its peer armors and shields of other AT's, such as being able to get ~87% -def resistance just by stacking the mez protection power; they do not need ageless radial destiny to get high -def resistance. It also sacrifices less dps for having so much mitigation. It's no surprise that when you add lifesteal to this you produce the most or 2nd most meatshieldy tank.

 

However, I contend that you really do not need so much survivability for this easy-ass game. Styling on critters by making the objectively most overpowered toon is fun and all, but if you are looking to spend most of your time on 1 toon you might want to make sure the playfeel is right.

 

 

Energize is not really a click heal in the vein of dark regen or healing flames, and does not give as much hps. Each use heals about 1.5 healing flames' worth (counting both the direct heal and the value of the regen), but it has a recharge 3 times as long. The main benefit is actually the massive endrdx bonus (stronger even than a cardiac core paragon and fully ED-busting). This, combined with elec armor's built-in rech bonus, makes elec armor one of the best procbombing sets.

 

You also do not need dark consumption for end management if you have access to power sink. Power sink is on a completely different level - it recharges 3 times as fast and with energize will kill any endurance problems.

 

 

Usually, tankers get more dps by taking a defensive alpha and slotting damage procs in their attacks, compared to slotting for res/def then taking a damage alpha. Elec armor has higher base res values than other resistance armor sets. An elec build with resilient core paragon can cap resistances without tough. Combined with the built-in rech and end management solutions this provides considerable build flexibility, frees you to invest heavily in epic and pool powers and to procbomb like a maniac.

 

 

While cardiac will obviously help (and is one of the better alpha choices for dark/), don't forget the biggest solution to the dark regen end cost problem (and one that appears a lot earlier) which is the theft of essence: chance for +end proc. It rolls for each target hit by the power, so slotting it in dark regen and being careful to use it in big herds can actually get you more blue than you started out with.

 

 

Good news: they have better radius. Dark consumption is only 8ft radius. Dark oblit is 22.5ft. You can see this visually when tanks and brutes use the same epic aoe on targets that are uniformly spaced, like training dummies in the Vanguard base or cimerorans on the wall. (However, IIRC real numbers will not show it, probably because on live there were never any effects that increased radius.) 

 

The reason for this is that a pbaoe's radius is actually its range attribute while a taoe's radius is its radius attribute. Melee pbaoes are all flagged to ignore range enhancement, which is why you cannot make them bigger by +range set bonuses. However, what gauntlet does is give +50% radius (and arc strength) and this does work on epic aoes.

 

 

This is correct. Even powersink itself is only 30% chance for -recovery. I soloed +4/x8 ITF's with a few elec/*/mu combos; spamming powersink, elec fences and ball lightning did not stop bosses completely from attacking although it did seem to reduce incoming damage somewhat. It is not comparable to fender/corr sapping using +special boosted effects and 100% chance for -recovery powers, and is only a minor perk.

 

Any chance you can share a build or base build guidelines?