Elec/Shield Stalker

[Warshades]

Finalizing my elec/shield build, would like a second set of eyes to see if I missed anything or can improve anything. This will mostly be for lvl 50 content and if I need to exemplar, I'll get serums to help with endurance.

 

Stalker (Electrical Melee - Shield Defense).mbd

[WuTang]

Someone else may need to chime in but I'm not 100% certain Kismet +6% hit will work in Grant Cover.

 

Edit: I see where MIDs has it working, but it is not always correct.

Edited March 25 by WuTang

[Maelwys]

Looks very similar slotting and power selection to mine actually - I skipped Maneuvers in favour of OwtS; took Jacob's Ladder instead of Thunderstrike (although it's also using 5x Winters + a FoTG -res proc!) and leaned a little more into +Regen than Resistances but otherwise almost identical. My Kismet is sitting in Combat Jumping rather than Grant Cover (parts of Grant Cover affect you; but I haven't tested if that includes a Kismet 120sProc activation) since I didn't need the extra +Def aspect in CJ to hit the softcaps.

About the only thing that might be worth considering is that I didn't slot a full ATO set in Assassin's Shock - forgoing some local recharge aspect in favour of a Hecatomb and Touch of Death Proc. IIRC when I worked out my attack chain the additional global recharge really wasn't doing much for me.

 

Edited March 25 by Maelwys

[MoonSheep]

here's the direction i went with on mine.

 

there's some good opportunity for proc damage but overall it's fairly run of the mill. with ball lightning i'll have 4 damage procs, a purple damage IO and a hami acc/dam

 

i didn't bother trying to build much for defense as a) it's a stalker, it's never going to be tough and b) i can just pop 1 small purple insp and i'm above softcap anyway, so mayaswel maximise damage and fun

 

[Groovy_Ghoul]

Overall, great build. I made a few minor changes to get you to the defense softcap. I dropped Hasten and took One with the Shield for the Resistance Uniques. I switched Kismet to Hide and Grant Cover with LotG, but that is a personal preference. I added one slot to Maneuvers for more hit point and defense. I also added a Psionic Resist to Tough because you are kind of low. Took one slot from Build Up and added it to Active Defense for more Recharge as the defense debuff stacks.

 

I really like your build. Should be lots of fun.

Stalker (Electrical Melee - Shield Defense)Forums.mbd

[Warshades]

I appreciate all the replies. I'll take an unslotter and test if kismet is working in Grant Cover or not, didn't consider that it might not. Can make some changes if it doesn't, but I think it should hit soft cap (counting the none suppressed defense from hide) by just swapping with CJ.

 

2 hours ago, Maelwys said:

Looks very similar slotting and power selection to mine actually - I skipped Maneuvers in favour of OwtS; took Jacob's Ladder instead of Thunderstrike

2 hours ago, Maelwys said:

About the only thing that might be worth considering is that I didn't slot a full ATO set in Assassin's Shock - forgoing some local recharge aspect in favour of a Hecatomb and Touch of Death Proc. IIRC when I worked out my attack chain the additional global recharge really wasn't doing much for me.

 

I kinda really hate the look of Jacob's Ladder animation, to the point that I will avoid it at all costs lol. I'll look into slotting damage procs in AS and not going for the full ATO set. May also go with Charged Brawl instead as I'll admit that I'm not the biggest fan of the long animation time of TS. Would probably end up with better DPA and faster focus gains to cycle AS more often.

 

1 hour ago, MoonSheep said:

i didn't bother trying to build much for defense as a) it's a stalker, it's never going to be tough and b) i can just pop 1 small purple insp and i'm above softcap anyway, so mayaswel maximise damage and fun

 

I'm one of those players that doesn't like using inspirations and I try to build without having to rely on them. I think I may go ahead and replace TS with Charged Brawl though. I've been finding that the long animation time kinda hurts and sometimes I'll lose a stack of focus as a result of being stuck in TS.

 

12 minutes ago, Groovy_Ghoul said:

Overall, great build. I made a few minor changes to get you to the defense softcap.

 

The build actually is soft capped if you count the ~2.1% or so defense from hide that doesn't get suppressed when you attack and are broken out of hide (assuming mid's is correct about those numbers). I de-toggled it so it doesn't display the additional ~4.3% or so defense that does get suppressed when attacking or out of hidden state. I will take a look at the changes you made and try them out. I fully agree on taking that recharge slot out of BU as I found that the instant recharge proc goes off pretty often, no point in wasting the slot on it. I'm not as happy about the idea of dropping hasten though.

[Warshades]

Alright, so after testing it out, Kismet definitely does not work in Grant Cover. Made some changes to put Kismet into hide instead. I also swapped Thunder Strike for Charged Brawl. With hide on, the Red Fortunes in Deflection boosted to +5, and an extra reactive defense: def in Maneuvers, it does barely scrape to melee soft cap. I could also get there easier by doing a full ToD set in Havoc Punch, but I'm considering trying out either CotS +chance for heal or Fortunata Hypnosis +placate chance in Havoc Punch, has anyone tested and found either to be useful? I suppose that Jacob's Ladder would be a more useful power to put this in and if I can get over that very aesthetically boring and unfitting animation, I can maybe try it out there. Will at some point move the powers around so I get Charged Brawl earlier for whenever I do exemplar down. 

 

I'm also considering dropping Grant Cover for OwtS instead, but a little hesitant as it does drop my DDR by a solid amount. I suppose that with me being just barely over soft cap, any defense debuffs will result in cascading failure regardless if I have GC or not while soloing, and perhaps with teams I'll get enough additional defense buffs to not have worry about it. On the other hand, I also built in so much resist that it feels like I wouldn't really benefit much out of OwtS. Also added in the Hecatomb proc into AS, still keeping the 5 piece ATO for the global recharge. Build is still low on psi resist, but that's fine by me at this point. Feels like it would cost to many slots and resists in more useful damage categories to try and build that up.

 

Updated build changes below.

 

Stalker (Electrical Melee - Shield Defense)2.mbd

[Maelwys]

The only other thing that's now popping into my head is that neither Lightning Rod nor Shield Charge utilize offensive procs well on Stalkers; because they're effectively pseudopet summons (I believe Tankers are the only AT that differ here due to their Lightning Rod not being coded as "CreateEntity" but instead "ExecutePower"). So if you're looking for a good place to stick that 5-piece Winter Set; perhaps try Shield Charge. A self-affecting proc like a Force Feedback Proc in the 6th Slot will work just fine though.

Taking Jacob's Ladder will give a higher ST Damage (especially with the -res proc going off more often); but taking Thunderstrike will likely result in better AoE coverage given how tricky it is to position narrow melee cones properly... and if you Procbomb Thunderstrike the full proc damage will apply to the secondary "splash" targets.

So all things considered I'd probably lean towards something like the below (which doesn't require a Kismet or Maneuvers; and may even be able to forgo Ageless).

Stalker - Electric_SD IOed (TS).mbd


 

[Warshades]

1 hour ago, Maelwys said:

The only other thing that's now popping into my head is that neither Lightning Rod nor Shield Charge utilize offensive procs well on Stalkers; because they're effectively pseudopet summons (I believe Tankers are the only AT that differ here due to their Lightning Rod not being coded as "CreateEntity" but instead "ExecutePower"). So if you're looking for a good place to stick that 5-piece Winter Set; perhaps try Shield Charge. A self-affecting proc like a Force Feedback Proc in the 6th Slot will work just fine though.

Taking Jacob's Ladder will give a higher ST Damage (especially with the -res proc going off more often); but taking Thunderstrike will likely result in better AoE coverage given how tricky it is to position narrow melee cones properly... and if you Procbomb Thunderstrike the full proc damage will apply to the secondary "splash" targets.

So all things considered I'd probably lean towards something like the below (which doesn't require a Kismet or Maneuvers; and may even be able to forgo Ageless).

 

I suppose that's also why LR and SC don't break the hidden state with them being pseudopet summons? I am surprised that tankers are the only ones where it's different. To be honest, really feels like I'm in a bind. I had respec'd into the second build I posted to test it out and just finished running a 54 KM ITF not long ago. While this is a case specific scenario, with a kin on the team and FS buffs, enemies were dying insanely fast to the point where by the time a Thunder Strike would hit, the enemy would likely have been dead. I also found it helpful to not be stuck in a long animation and cycling quickly through Charged Brawl, Havoc Punch, and Chain Induction to build up focus for a hard hitting AS felt really nice and made a noticeable impact on the ST damage against the EBs/AVs. On the other hand, having a FotG -res proc would also help damage output a lot as well. Now it kinda feels like a choice between running a long animating TS or a combination of Jacob's Ladder, Chain Induction, and either Charged/Havoc Punch to build focus up quick and still be able to get the -res proc in.

 

I'll probably stop respecing on live to try out all these changes and start doing so on the test server first. Considering Jacob's Ladder and Havoc Punch have similar animation times, and I can't believe I'm saying this, but I may go with Charged Brawl, Jacobs Ladder, and Chain Induction as my 3 quick focus building powers. I can then put a 5 piece Armageddon and FotG in JL and do the Winter Set in SC as you mentioned.

 

I appreciate the build you put together, I'll give that a whirl on the test server with the slight attack power changes. Now that I think about it, the main reason I was even trying to put Kismet into the build was because I was originally trying to slot Shield Charge with the Armageddon dam/rech piece instead of acc/rech and it was a bit low on accuracy and I ended up going back to acc/rech but never removed Kismet lol.

 

Overall, the build feels incredibly good so far, amazing AoE and ST damage output. Only managed to craft ageless core so far as I needed a quick endurance fix, but will get to musculature and reactive T3s tomorrow.

 

Edit: speaking of the interface slot, do you find degen with -max HP to be more useful for stalkers?

Edited March 26 by Warshades

[Maelwys]

2 hours ago, Warshades said:

Edit: speaking of the interface slot, do you find degen with -max HP to be more useful for stalkers?

 

Reactive for the -Res is generally more useful in PVE content, with the -MaxHP from Degenerative pulling ahead on tougher targets like AVs/GMs that have substantially higher HP.

 

However... a lot of folk run Reactive so I see more cases where its Debuff is maxed out and my copy makes no difference. And for Elec/Shield Stalkers my gut is that Degenerative can help more than usual because you're tending to open the fight with two big AoEs. 

During a Shield Charge/Lightning Rod Alpha Strike, your interface proc will get two opportunities to kick in. If Reactive kicked in on the first hit, only the second attack gets the -res benefit. If Reactive kicked in on the second hit, neither of the attacks gets the -res benefit. But if Degenerative kicks in on either of those two hits... then you will still get the full benefit of its -MaxHP effect. On top of any Proc damage. Which may cause things to die that would have been left on a sliver of health.

 

So I tend to come down on the side of Degenerative (even just for the sake of being a better AV/GM killer!)

[Maelwys]

On 3/26/2025 at 5:03 AM, Warshades said:

I may go with Charged Brawl, Jacobs Ladder, and Chain Induction as my 3 quick focus building powers. I can then put a 5 piece Armageddon and FotG in JL and do the Winter Set in SC as you mentioned.

I had a little time this afternoon to get the spreadsheet out and poke at my own ElecM/Shield... and from what I can tell that's indeed essentially the best way to go.

There's zero benefit to using Havoc Punch over Charged Brawl whenever you're purposely trying to build three Focus stacks. Because it really comes down to CI>JL>CB plus either Zapp or Ball Lightning (because both bring your average DPA up) between Assassin Shocks. Which leaves a little wiggle room in the recharge of Zapp, JL and AS.





So sticking an extra proc or two in AS (3x ATOs+Hecatomb+GS+ToD) actually works out a smidge better than "best case" AS crits without them (5x ATOs+Hecatomb).
The last proc only has an extremely minor benefit over a +5 Hecatomb Dmg or Dmg/End though.

So all things considered I think mine'll be respeccing into this shortly:

[EDIT: Mids build file link removed; see this post for a more accurate breakdown and multiple build options]


(Still no Kismet required. OwtS having the slots over Tough is purely personal preference - I tend to run without the latter toggled and keep the former for emergencies!)
 

Edited Monday at 09:27 PM by Maelwys

[Warshades]

2 hours ago, Maelwys said:

I had a little time this afternoon to get the spreadsheet out and poke at my own ElecM/Shield... and from what I can tell that's indeed essentially the best way to go.

There's zero benefit to using Havoc Punch over Charged Brawl whenever you're purposely trying to build three Focus stacks. Because it really comes down to CI>JL>CB plus either Zapp or Ball Lightning (because both bring your average DPA up) between Assassin Shocks. Which leaves a little wiggle room in the recharge of Zapp, JL and AS.





So sticking an extra proc or two in AS (3x ATOs+Hecatomb+GS+ToD) actually works out a smidge better than "best case" AS crits without them (5x ATOs+Hecatomb).
The last proc only has an extremely minor benefit over a +5 Hecatomb Dmg or Dmg/End though.

So all things considered I think mine'll be respeccing into this shortly:

Stalker - Electric_SD IOed (Procced AS + CB).mbd

 

Nice, I really appreciate the number crunch. I ran a quick DPA comparison yesterday between CB and TS before respecing out of TS and saw that CB's DPA pulled way ahead of TS, but I didn't compare it to HP or JL. I'll also change up AS to run the 3 ATOs, 2 damage procs and probably replace the 3rd with the +5 dam Hecatomb as that should offer more damage consistency and give another small recovery bonus.

 

I'll change the interface to degen as well. I've gotten used to running reactive on nearly everything, but you are right in that some of the benefit would be lost if -res isn't applied by the first nuke and that's not counting overstacking of reactive from other players.

 

This will hopefully be the final version that I respec into now.

[Shadowstormprime]

4 hours ago, Maelwys said:

I had a little time this afternoon to get the spreadsheet out and poke at my own ElecM/Shield... and from what I can tell that's indeed essentially the best way to go.

There's zero benefit to using Havoc Punch over Charged Brawl whenever you're purposely trying to build three Focus stacks. Because it really comes down to CI>JL>CB plus either Zapp or Ball Lightning (because both bring your average DPA up) between Assassin Shocks. Which leaves a little wiggle room in the recharge of Zapp, JL and AS.





So sticking an extra proc or two in AS (3x ATOs+Hecatomb+GS+ToD) actually works out a smidge better than "best case" AS crits without them (5x ATOs+Hecatomb).
The last proc only has an extremely minor benefit over a +5 Hecatomb Dmg or Dmg/End though.

So all things considered I think mine'll be respeccing into this shortly:

Stalker - Electric_SD IOed (Procced AS + CB).mbd


(Still no Kismet required. OwtS having the slots over Tough is purely personal preference - I tend to run without the latter toggled and keep the former for emergencies!)
 

 

1 hour ago, Warshades said:

 

Nice, I really appreciate the number crunch. I ran a quick DPA comparison yesterday between CB and TS before respecing out of TS and saw that CB's DPA pulled way ahead of TS, but I didn't compare it to HP or JL. I'll also change up AS to run the 3 ATOs, 2 damage procs and probably replace the 3rd with the +5 dam Hecatomb as that should offer more damage consistency and give another small recovery bonus.

 

I'll change the interface to degen as well. I've gotten used to running reactive on nearly everything, but you are right in that some of the benefit would be lost if -res isn't applied by the first nuke and that's not counting overstacking of reactive from other players.

 

This will hopefully be the final version that I respec into now.

It's interesting in seeing Thunderstrike's DPA being lower, even when they cut the animation time recently! Is this also taking into account TS's splash damage hitting multiple targets?

Edited March 26 by Shadowstormprime

[Maelwys]

28 minutes ago, Shadowstormprime said:

It's interesting in seeing Thunderstrike's DPA being lower, even when they cut the animation time recently! Is this also taking into account TS's splash damage hitting multiple targets?

 

There are two problems with Thunder Strike... one is the comparatively low DPA; and the other is the long Animation Time Before Effect (ATBE). It takes nearly two full seconds before its hit actually "lands"; and as @Warshades pointed out in an earlier post, on teams that means quite often you'll end up dealing damage to corpses.

 

I think if I didn't have both Shield Charge and Ball Lightning to fall back on in addition to the rest of the Electric Melee abilities, I'd probably take and Procbomb TS in order to shore up my AoE damage. But as it is, IMO TS is not required for AoE damage coverage and it's demonstrably detrimental to your ST damage output. It's a decent place for a -Res Proc (which is the only real benefit of a long ATBE) but so is Jacob's Ladder. And whilst Jacob's base numbers aren't wonderful, with procs it'll make an above average ST damage filler attack that can inflict -Res and will occasionally hit more than one target.

 

Edited March 26 by Maelwys

[Warshades]

21 minutes ago, Shadowstormprime said:

It's interesting in seeing Thunderstrike's DPA being lower, even when they cut the animation time recently! Is this also taking into account TS's splash damage hitting multiple targets?

 

I did not factor splash damage in as that is very variable. I was only looking at the damage done to a single target. Even from the brief 2 days where I ran the stalker with TS, it was rare that splash damage would ever factor in. Mobs were often already down after LR + SC, or else would be immobilized from a troller/dom and wouldn't group up for the splash damage to be a big factor from Thunder Strike. I think that at lower levels, if you exemplar often, you might feel more use out of the splash damage as most ATs are missing their big hitting AoEs, but at lvl 50 I was mainly only getting the ST damage (and that's assuming the target didn't die before it hit). If anything, the knockdown from LR + SC actually makes it harder for any remaining enemies to group up together.

[Shadowstormprime]

19 hours ago, Maelwys said:

 

There are two problems with Thunder Strike... one is the comparatively low DPA; and the other is the long Animation Time Before Effect (ATBE). It takes nearly two full seconds before its hit actually "lands"; and as @Warshades pointed out in an earlier post, on teams that means quite often you'll end up dealing damage to corpses.

 

I think if I didn't have both Shield Charge and Ball Lightning to fall back on in addition to the rest of the Electric Melee abilities, I'd probably take and Procbomb TS in order to shore up my AoE damage. But as it is, IMO TS is not required for AoE damage coverage and it's demonstrably detrimental to your ST damage output. It's a decent place for a -Res Proc (which is the only real benefit of a long ATBE) but so is Jacob's Ladder. And whilst Jacob's base numbers aren't wonderful, with procs it'll make an above average ST damage filler attack that can inflict -Res and will occasionally hit more than one target.

 

 

19 hours ago, Warshades said:

 

I did not factor splash damage in as that is very variable. I was only looking at the damage done to a single target. Even from the brief 2 days where I ran the stalker with TS, it was rare that splash damage would ever factor in. Mobs were often already down after LR + SC, or else would be immobilized from a troller/dom and wouldn't group up for the splash damage to be a big factor from Thunder Strike. I think that at lower levels, if you exemplar often, you might feel more use out of the splash damage as most ATs are missing their big hitting AoEs, but at lvl 50 I was mainly only getting the ST damage (and that's assuming the target didn't die before it hit). If anything, the knockdown from LR + SC actually makes it harder for any remaining enemies to group up together.

This is all awesome info, I appreciate you both crunching numbers on/testing this!

[Auroxis]

On 3/26/2025 at 10:57 PM, Maelwys said:

 

There are two problems with Thunder Strike... one is the comparatively low DPA; and the other is the long Animation Time Before Effect (ATBE). It takes nearly two full seconds before its hit actually "lands"; and as @Warshades pointed out in an earlier post, on teams that means quite often you'll end up dealing damage to corpses.

 

I think if I didn't have both Shield Charge and Ball Lightning to fall back on in addition to the rest of the Electric Melee abilities, I'd probably take and Procbomb TS in order to shore up my AoE damage. But as it is, IMO TS is not required for AoE damage coverage and it's demonstrably detrimental to your ST damage output. It's a decent place for a -Res Proc (which is the only real benefit of a long ATBE) but so is Jacob's Ladder. And whilst Jacob's base numbers aren't wonderful, with procs it'll make an above average ST damage filler attack that can inflict -Res and will occasionally hit more than one target.

 

I've had good results with TS over JL myself. Both are heavy animation time before effect powers, but new TS is far and away the best power you have available at getting damage out of the hide proc, giving you 150 base damage out of the crit. I've gone for the full proc setup on it, which lets me alternate between it and Zapp after AS to get maximum coverage out of the hide proc.

 

Edit: Some explanation about how the new TS works. On the main target only, you get 150 base damage and 100% crit rate out of hide. Targets in the splash get hit by significantly less base damage (procs aside) with a 50% crit chance out of hide.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 07:56 AM by Auroxis

[Warshades]

5 hours ago, Auroxis said:

I've had good results with TS over JL myself. Both are heavy animation time before effect powers, but new TS is far and away the best power you have available at getting damage out of the hide proc, giving you 150 base damage out of the crit. I've gone for the full proc setup on it, which lets me alternate between it and Zapp after AS to get maximum coverage out of the hide proc.

 

Do you still find it to be that good in practical applications when you're on a team and fighting mobs? That higher dpa only factors in in ideal circumstances when you can guarantee that you're hitting TS with hide status/proc and that the target is still even alive by the time it hits, something that a pylon clear time test allows. Pylons are a single target dmg test, you can literally skip LR and SC if you're prioritizing pylon clear speeds. You also didn't use LR in that video for the test whereas fighting through general TF/mission content, I like to use LR any time I can against mobs. Maybe if every single mob you engage has an AV or GM where you can take advantage of the crit dmg from TS and the target staying alive to get that dmg by the time it hits, then it would win in dpa under those ideal circumstances.

 

I'm looking more so from a practical content use. You don't lose much against AV fights using JL over TS. Additionally, the time it takes for the target to die matters, especially with an activation as long as TS. Another factor is how much HP the target has left when the hit happens. You can have amazing dmg from TS while hidden, but it doesn't mean much if by the time you hit, a boss has a sliver of life left and you would've still ended that boss using JL and getting a crit from hide.

 

To be clear, this isn't to knock your comment about TS dpa and it's usefulness, I'm just trying to point out that teaming and doing missions/TFs isn't the same as fighting a pylon. Even the splash dmg will only factor in if there are enemies close by to your target, something that isn't guaranteed as minions and lieutenants die quickly, mobs can be immobilized by a controller/dom, and they can be knocked down and prevented from grouping up, particularly when you open with LR and SC.

 

I would personally love for TS to be the better power pick as I dislike the visual look of JL animation, but there have been to many instances where I either may as well have not used TS at all or could've finished the target with JL.

[Auroxis]

Good question @Warshades! I believe that its high damage out of hide actually contributes to its practical application in regular content. Since LR doesn't break hide, you can initiate battles with Lightning Rod (also Shield Charge in this case) and then Thunder Strike on the boss, following up with CI->AS->Snipe on whatever remains. In other words, the slow wind-up is made up by using it as an opener after your swift tele-nuke.

 

This thread is already saturated with builds, but this is the one I had in mind for Elec/Shield since it requires hefty levels of recharge:

 

Stalker (Electrical Melee - Shield Defense).mbd

[Warshades]

2 minutes ago, Auroxis said:

Since LR doesn't break hide, you can initiate battles with Lightning Rod (also Shield Charge in this case) and then Thunder Strike on the boss, following up with CI->AS->Snipe on whatever remains.

 

I guess my point, which I should've stated more clearly from the beginning of the topic, is that I tend to team more than play solo. I can see how playing solo, you'd get good usage out of TS against leftover bosses. On a team, I can open with LR and SC, but teammates are also opening their AoE attacks and bosses don't quite have the high amounts of HP left at times to justify using TS. This does depend on the make up of the team as not all PUG teams have great dmg to completely negate TS as a useful power.

[Auroxis]

26 minutes ago, Warshades said:

 

I guess my point, which I should've stated more clearly from the beginning of the topic, is that I tend to team more than play solo. I can see how playing solo, you'd get good usage out of TS against leftover bosses. On a team, I can open with LR and SC, but teammates are also opening their AoE attacks and bosses don't quite have the high amounts of HP left at times to justify using TS. This does depend on the make up of the team as not all PUG teams have great dmg to completely negate TS as a useful power.

I suppose that in that case you're still weighing TS against JL, which is neither used as an opener nor is significantly faster than TS, with only a 0.4 seconds faster animation time before effect.

[Maelwys]

On 3/30/2025 at 3:15 PM, Auroxis said:

I suppose that in that case you're still weighing TS against JL, which is neither used as an opener nor is significantly faster than TS, with only a 0.4 seconds faster animation time before effect.

JL can however be used as a decent filler to gain Assassin's Focus; and since it's up twice as often as TS you also end up with better -Res proc coverage.

With like-for-like builds, the overall picture looks roughly like the below (using the average chance where appropriate for both Focus stack accumulation and damage/-res proc activation). Basically from what i can see the JL version starts out very slightly ahead; then the TS version gains more benefit from the Hide Proc; and then the JL version gains more benefit from the Gladiator -Res proc so in the end there's still only a smidge separating the two. So which is "best" will probably come down to a mixture of personal playstyle and whether or not you have teammates/pets to take advantage of the increased -res coverage.



The builds referred to in the above are:
Stalker - Electric_SD IOed (Rech + Procced JL).mbd
Stalker - Electric_SD IOed (Rech + Procced TS).mbd


Although I'll throw one more spanner in the works... because there is a little bit of extra wiggle room in the JL build's attack chain (e.g. you can sacrifice some global recharge for additional damage procs and have it still be "seamless") - the best I could come up with this afternoon was the below by proccing out both AS and JL: 



Stalker - Electric_SD IOed (Procced AS + JL).mbd

This does however come at the cost of slightly increased downtime on the two nukes... so whether it's "better" will still depend on the player's goals + preferences.

The changes to TS have been very beneficial though; and it's worth pointing out that Mids (at the time of writing) is still using the wrong values for it. I needed to refer to CoDv2 and manually poke at my Mids database to get accurate numbers appearing for TS's Single Target PVE damage during the above comparison... 😑

[Camel]

A few things here. I have multiple flavors of Elec/Shield and I have never had an issue with getting a Thunder Strike off when I am teaming. I absolutely nuke mobs with it when I run +4 KM ITFs. I also nuke mobs all the way from Posi 1 to Numina. Sure, sometimes you whiff... but that is easily mitigated with combat knowledge and positioning. I don't mean to sound rude.. but if you are missing almost all of your Thunder Strikes when teaming, that's a you issue. Even on the KM ITFs I've done that were sub 30 minutes I was clobbering mobs with TS.

There is so much utility with Thunder Strike. You mentioned that you open up on mobs with both of your tele-nukes? This is super fun and I don't blame you for doing it. I do it a lot too lol and it's UBER fun! However, what Auroxis said is true and is how you should be engaging mobs as your opener. LR and SC, as you know, don't break stealth. Throwing in a TS right after either of those will maximize damage and help you juggle your tele-nukes more efficiently when you go from mob-to-mob. 

Thunder Strike also has way more utility than Jakobs since it has higher proc rates for Fury of the Gladiator as well as the opportunity to slot the Force Feedback +recharge proc. Utilizing TS when it is on cooldown while you have good mob density will shave off a decent amount of time on both of your tele-nukes. More tele-nukes = more fun and more damage. Stacking focus is still incredibly easy to do and when you are doing mass AoE damage, focus stacks aren't nearly as important. Outside of AoE situations, Charge Brawl, Havoc Punch and Chain Induction are more than enough to quickly stack focus. CB + CI alone can get you to three stacks in less than three seconds. I have the opposite issue you have with my Elec/Shield Stalker in that I am frequently overcapping my focus stacks because of how quickly I can build them up when I am in single target mode. 

All-in-all. A general PvE build with TS is much more useful than a general PvE build without it. DPA does not 100% depict this game accurately and how it plays.  

[Auroxis]

@Maelwys

 

I created both your "spanner in the works" build (procced AS) and the build I posted above on the public test server for some pylon tests.

 

Both builds used the same incarnate slot powers: Musc Radial Alpha, Ageless Core Destiny, Assault Core Hybrid, Degen Core Interface

 

I ran your rotation as I understood it: AS-Zapp-CI-JL-CB-AS-BL-CI-JL-CB

And my rotation as I've discussed it: TS-CI-AS-Zapp-CB-CI-AS

 

Pylon times for the JL build:

1:40
1:38
1:44
1:34
1:50
1:52
1:34
1:37
1:48
1:49

 

Fastest time: 1:34

Slowest time: 1:50

Average: 1:42

 

Pylon times for the TS build:
1:45
1:43
1:28
1:31
1:25
1:36
1:34
1:39
1:40
1:25

 

Fastest time: 1:25

Slowest time: 1:45

Average: 1:34

 

Of course, seeing as Stalker is naturally high-variance due to the many many procs going on this can only say so much. What I did notice is my build's variance is mostly due to not generating as many Focus stacks before AS, while your build's variance is the Hide proc going out of sync and being used on Ball Lightning instead of Zapp.

Edited Tuesday at 09:23 AM by Auroxis

[Maelwys]

13 hours ago, Auroxis said:

I ran your rotation as I understood it: AS-Zapp-CI-JL-CB-AS-BL-CI-JL-CB

And my rotation as I've discussed it: TS-CI-AS-Zapp-CB-CI-AS

...
Of course, seeing as Stalker is naturally high-variance due to the many many procs going on this can only say so much. What I did notice is my build's variance is mostly due to not generating as many Focus stacks before AS, while your build's variance is the Hide proc going out of sync and being used on Ball Lightning instead of Zapp.

Yeah that 10 second lockout on the hide proc can definitely get annoying if you're spamming attacks constantly (e.g. vs a pylon) using that rotation for the TS build; as you'll eventually encounter the 10% chance for it "not to kick in" on Zapp which will throw things off unless you can correct it. If you're paying attention then it's possible to swap the chain around on the fly (fitting CI in after the next AS instead of BL; by using an additional CB or popping Build Up etc to make up the extra ~0.918s)... or you could just move Zapp and BL both back a place so that CI always goes after AS instead (trading a little potential damage for more consistency).
When I'm soloing on Stalkers I always tend to aim for 3x Focus stacks between ASs for consistency (although aiming for 2x Focus stacks between ASs likely gives better average DPA!) and that aversion to spikiness may well be why in regular (non pylon) situations I also prefer the notion of opening with BL out of Hide vs groups and Zapp out of Hide vs Single Targets instead of just using TS vs both (as TS's AoE output tends to rely on procs which are less consistent and can't crit; even before you get into any of those ATBE/corpse blasting conversations from earlier in the thread!).

I think that TS rotation with your previously posted build will require both Ageless running and a Base buff to be completely seamless - as otherwise towards the tail end of Ageless there'll be a very short gap before the second AS will be ready with just the "raw" global recharge. A quick eyeball suggests that it's not worth substituting HP for CB for extra wiggle room (despite the better chance for 2x Focus stacks) but it could potentially let you shuffle the slotting of CI around a bit (e.g. swapping the Dam/Rech for a Dam then +5 ing everything).

In any case; glad to see things aren't hugely different on the median values in actual testing even with all the potential variance! 👍