Thematic but Powerful?

[Jacke]

6 hours ago, hoopahnan said:

Is Rage crash from Super Strength really that bad? Is there a way to mitigate it?

 

It is.  CoD2 is still current on this (hasn't been updated since mid 2024).

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=tanker_melee.super_strength.rage&at=tanker

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=brute_melee.super_strength.rage&at=brute

 

Rage is similar on Super Strength Tankers and Brutes.

• 120s of +20% ToHit +80% Damage
• Then a crash of
  • -25% MaxEnd (which if at the same time as Hasten's -15% MaxEnd crash can really hurt)
  • 10s of -20% Def (all) and -9990% Damage

The Defense crash means the Tanker should have very good Resists protection, probably a good Resist-based Primary.

 

The Damage crash means the only attacks that will still damage will be ones that don't get enhanced by Damage buffs, so they won't be lessened by Damage debuffs either.  That means:

• The Origin Attack (which can be changed to any of the Origin Attacks)
• The 3 Prestige Attacks (3 of these 4 Prestige attacks: Sands of Mu, Ghost Slaying Axe, Blackwand, Nemesis Staff)
• Damage Procs in regular attacks

The 4 attacks from the first two points can't be slotted, so for them to work the build has to have enough Global ToHit and Global Accuracy to give those attacks a good final ToHit value against the current mobs.

 

Sure it's only 10s.  But that 10s is determined as 120s after Rage was clicked, which can be hard to make convenient.

 

There used to be a bug that if Rage was recharged and clicked again before the 120s ran out, the crash didn't happen.  When that bug was fixed, there was a lot of upset Super Strength Players.  It is still a sensitive topic.

 

So now with the Rage crash, there's a few options:

• Switch to using the above 4 attacks that will still work during the Damage crash.
• In the build, heavily Damage Proc some attacks and use them during the Damage crash.
  • And thus depend on a good Proc rate.
  • And lose the Set Bonuses from slotting other Enhancements.
• Don't attack.
  • Loose the PunchVoke (Tanker) AoE and PokeVoke (Brute) ST Taunt from attacks
  • Taunt itself still works
• Don't take Rage or if in the build, don't use Rage.
  • But Super Strength is balanced around the use of Rage.
    • So if not used, Super Strength Damage is noticeably lower.
• Take a Toon with Super Strength and depend on other Damage buffs.
  • I took a Super Strength/Shield Defense Brute that will skip Rage the Power
    • and depend on Rage the Brute Inherent and the Damage buff from Shield Defense's Against All Odds

 

 

[hoopahnan]

3 hours ago, Jacke said:

 

It is.  CoD2 is still current on this (hasn't been updated since mid 2024).

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=tanker_melee.super_strength.rage&at=tanker

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=brute_melee.super_strength.rage&at=brute

 

Rage is similar on Super Strength Tankers and Brutes.

• 120s of +20% ToHit +80% Damage
• Then a crash of
  • -25% MaxEnd (which if at the same time as Hasten's -15% MaxEnd crash can really hurt)
  • 10s of -20% Def (all) and -9990% Damage

The Defense crash means the Tanker should have very good Resists protection, probably a good Resist-based Primary.

 

The Damage crash means the only attacks that will still damage will be ones that don't get enhanced by Damage buffs, so they won't be lessened by Damage debuffs either.  That means:

• The Origin Attack (which can be changed to any of the Origin Attacks)
• The 3 Prestige Attacks (3 of these 4 Prestige attacks: Sands of Mu, Ghost Slaying Axe, Blackwand, Nemesis Staff)
• Damage Procs in regular attacks

The 4 attacks from the first two points can't be slotted, so for them to work the build has to have enough Global ToHit and Global Accuracy to give those attacks a good final ToHit value against the current mobs.

 

Sure it's only 10s.  But that 10s is determined as 120s after Rage was clicked, which can be hard to make convenient.

 

There used to be a bug that if Rage was recharged and clicked again before the 120s ran out, the crash didn't happen.  When that bug was fixed, there was a lot of upset Super Strength Players.  It is still a sensitive topic.

 

So now with the Rage crash, there's a few options:

• Switch to using the above 4 attacks that will still work during the Damage crash.
• In the build, heavily Damage Proc some attacks and use them during the Damage crash.
  • And thus depend on a good Proc rate.
  • And lose the Set Bonuses from slotting other Enhancements.
• Don't attack.
  • Loose the PunchVoke (Tanker) AoE and PokeVoke (Brute) ST Taunt from attacks
  • Taunt itself still works
• Don't take Rage or if in the build, don't use Rage.
  • But Super Strength is balanced around the use of Rage.
    • So if not used, Super Strength Damage is noticeably lower.
• Take a Toon with Super Strength and depend on other Damage buffs.
  • I took a Super Strength/Shield Defense Brute that will skip Rage the Power
    • and depend on Rage the Brute Inherent and the Damage buff from Shield Defense's Against All Odds

 

 

I…don’t understand most of this but yeah it sounds rough. Makes me want to skip the set entirely, even though Superman is my favorite hero

[tidge]

I like Street Justice... but I find it to be one of those sets that when I build a new character using it, it never feels particularly different to me. That is: whatever my concept is for a new SJ character, they all end up feeling very much the same.

 

I also have an uneasy feeling that Street Justice has one of the clunkiest combo mechanics, and possibly the worst of them... so often it just ends up getting ignored. What I don't like about it:

• The combo builders only +1 on attacks (minus Build Up)  that land, and RNG is no one's friend
• Any combo built up can evaporate rather quickly
• The attack chains (especially at low level) are painful to get to +3, and at high-level they builders be mostly ignored

Even though I like Dual Blades less that SJ, I find it's combo system to be slightly better (as a combo system), even though it is more confusing. Energy Melee's "combo" is practically a no-brainer in comparison with those two.

[Psyonico]

7 hours ago, Jacke said:

The Origin Attack (which can be changed to any of the Origin Attacks)

Just FYI, origin powers *are* affected by damage modifiers.  They also deal more damage below level 18 and even *more* damage than that below level 11, the damage they do at 50 is basically meaningless.

 

 Here’s Taser Dart as an example

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=prestige.prestige_attacks.brawl_taser

[hoopahnan]

After research and testing, I decided to stick with my stone/fire tank who's the daughter of Satan. Thank you @Sovera for the guides! Now I need to settle on a costume...

[Jacke]

On 5/13/2025 at 10:30 AM, hoopahnan said:

I…don’t understand most of this but yeah it sounds rough. Makes me want to skip the set entirely, even though Superman is my favorite hero

 

The City of Heroes combination in a Tanker of Invulnerability and Super Strength is sort of like Superman, but the nature of the Super Strength Power Rage in CoH is almost completely diametrically opposed to Superman's nature in the vast majority of cases.  He doesn't fight for 2 minutes and then has 10s of nothing.  He doesn't lose his temper.  He knows he has to walk a thin line between using his strength for good and causing too much damage with it.  He often uses his invulnerability to avoid excessive use of his strength.

 

You could go with other Tanker Melee Powersets instead.  I know that @tidge has above pointed out the difficulties with the Combo system in Street Justice, but I think it's a good Powerset.  Dual Blades used to not build its attack chains except on hits and it was good that it was changed to do so on misses, but it was more vital for Dual Blades to be changed because a specific attack was needed for one of the 4 possible attack chains, making a miss really hurt, as it was unlikely for the needed attack to recharge before the chain expired.  Street Justice isn't as tight as the original version of Dual Blades as you just need 3 Combo Builder attacks to hit (all within 10s I think) to max out and get the Red Ring on the Finishers to use them at full power.

 

I have a build attached here for my Street Justice/Ninjitsu Scrapper.  I take both the T1 and T2 attacks because I use them to do the initial Combo pumping to get to 3 and the Red Ring around the Finishers.  The T6 and T8 attacks are also Combo Builders, which means there can be up to 4 available, which means that it's unlikely not to be able to get to a Combo Level of 3 fairly quickly.  I only skip Confront from Street Justice.

Scrapper StreetJ-Ninjitsu.20241002.WpnM CJ Presence [i28p1] @Jacke - Jacke Nacht.mbd

 

I imagine you could make your Superman homage as a Invulnerability/Street Justice Tanker.  Also possible is a Invulnerability/Energy Melee Tanker.  Just remember you don't want your Toon to be too close a homage.  If a Toon is too much like a copyrighted or trademarked character and the GMs find out about it, they will genericise it, to protect Homecoming from potential lawsuites.

 

The key here is to make your homage Toon sort-of like the character you're thinking of, but nothing is too close to that character.  A different name, a different backstory, a different sort of costume.  Being Superman is also more about the way Superman acts and the general principles he supports through his actions, rather than his particular name, backstory, or costume.

 

 

Edited Friday at 01:01 PM by Jacke

[Jacke]

On 5/13/2025 at 2:15 PM, Psyonico said:

Just FYI, origin powers *are* affected by damage modifiers.  They also deal more damage below level 18 and even *more* damage than that below level 11, the damage they do at 50 is basically meaningless.

 

 Here’s Taser Dart as an example

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=prestige.prestige_attacks.brawl_taser

 

Thanks for pointing that out, @Psyonico.  Didn't realise that the Origin Attacks didn't ignore Global Damage Buffs.