Sonic Blast and Kinetics

[Lhanis]

On one hand, a blast set I've been repeatedly told to just play on Defender for the better -res values.

 

On the other hand, a support set I've been repeatedly told to run on Corruptor for the higher damage cap.

 

I want to put these two together, but I'm not sure which AT to use. I don't know how well they'll mesh, though I figure Kin will at least help with Sonic's traditionally lower damage output and either way I'll have a decent little support package to use as a tag-along for a friend's farms. I'd like it to be able to reasonably solo, which I figure Siren Song > FS can help facilitate despite the lack of traditional defense tools.

 

Is this wishful thinking? Am I mad for trying? Should I give in and make a Sonic/Sonic Def instead? Advice is needed!

[MoonSheep]

hey lhanis

 

my main on HC is a kin/sonic defender, i had one on live and have been playing this one as one of my two primary alts since summer 2019. it experienced the nerf to sonic blast and now enjoys the buff it received to the -res component (now a flat -15% across all powers for a defender)

 

the choice between defender and corrupter depends on whether you want to be a damager dealer or a buffer in my opinion

 

my kin/sonic def is purely buff/debuff focused. the damage it deals is insigifnicant, this lets me focus on playing a team role - making sure SB is applied to everyone, maximum fulcum shift, hitting each mob with a good amount of -res and having powerboosted veng ready for when it's needed

 

kinetics is still very effective on corrupters, i would find it too burdensome to be focusing on both damage and managing kin effectively if i was to play a corrupter. if you're solo'ing then it's less hectic, therefore corrupter would definitely be the right choice

 

saying that, if i was to make a /kin corrupter for solo play i'd pick ice blast or fire blast for the higher damage output

[Maelwys]

Given that Kinetics will comfortably cap a team's damage even on a Mastermind... I'd go Corruptor every day of the week.

The difference therefore comes down to Sonic Blast, which deals more damage on a Corruptor but inflicts more -res on a Defender.
(and to be perfectly honest; I'd probably just swap to BR or DP + then stack damage procs and Achilles Heel -Res... Sonic Blast is better than before but it's still not great)

 

[Uun]

I have a Poison/Sonic defender and an Ice/Kinetics corruptor. The issue combining Sonic Blast and Kinetics is that, other than Dreadful Wail, all of Sonic's AoEs are cones. You'll end up hopping into melee range to fire Fulcrum Shift and Dreadful Wail, then hopping out to fire your cones. This is manageable but takes a little practice (consider taking Combat Teleport). Be aware that only 1 of the 3 cones has -res (Howl), so you'll need to cycle your ST attacks in order to spread -res debuffs around. My inclination would be to do this as a corruptor.

[Lhanis]

6 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

kinetics is still very effective on corrupters, i would find it too burdensome to be focusing on both damage and managing kin effectively if i was to play a corrupter. if you're solo'ing then it's less hectic, therefore corrupter would definitely be the right choice

 

That is the rub, I think. My first thought with this combo was simply take advantage of Def's scalar and let the character just be pure support, in which case my damage simply wouldn't matter as much compared to the buffs/debuffs it brings. But I always have a hard time letting myself gear out a character I know won't be able to play by itself. Corruptor probably is the way to go, simply because of that, even if the difference has never felt that big to me to begin with (Beyond Def's ATOs generally being awful, anyway).

 

5 hours ago, Maelwys said:

(and to be perfectly honest; I'd probably just swap to BR or DP + then stack damage procs and Achilles Heel -Res... Sonic Blast is better than before but it's still not great)

 

This I would normally agree with, but it's actually Sonic Blast that I'd consider non-negotiable over Kinetics due to concept. I'd never done anything with it before and I'd like to rectify that. Kinetics is more of a "how do I fix this low damage set" over any desire to bring the buffs to a party - that's just icing. There were other options on the table, but I'm trying to break my long-ingrained habit of slapping Dark Miasma on everything and calling it a day. 🤣

 

3 hours ago, Uun said:

The issue combining Sonic Blast and Kinetics is that, other than Dreadful Wail, all of Sonic's AoEs are cones. You'll end up hopping into melee range to fire Fulcrum Shift and Dreadful Wail, then hopping out to fire your cones.

 

My main for many years now has been my D3 Def from live, the eternal cone-dance is long ingrained at this point. It's annoying, but manageable and I already have CT binds in mind to alleviate this.

 

-

 

Good information all around though, I do appreciate the pointers. I hadn't realized Sonic has changed again, Mids still reflects old values and the Short/Lingering vibrations system... I may need to reconsider my power picks in that case. What has me curious then is wether or not I should be chasing procs on Sonic Blast over full sets; If the -res componant is higher and more straightforward now it feels like I should be implementing recharge to keep it layered over worrying about PPM, and I know procbombing Siren Song will kill the sleep effect entirely. 

[Lhanis]

And actually, that brings up another point entirely - if Sonic Blast is back to being flat and individualized -res packets, would it do any better as a Blaster? I'd think no, simply due to it's anemic damage output, but it's worth asking I suppose. I'm still looking for an excuse to run a /Ninja, and stealth/crits + Blinding powder are on theme for what I had in mind.

[Uun]

The new Sonic system has the same strength -res on each power with an 8s duration for Shriek, Scream and Howl, 10s for Shout, 15s for Screech and 20s for Dreadful Wail. The -res value is 15% for defenders, 11.25% for corruptors, 9.75% for blasters and 7.2% for sentinels. The debuff from one power stacks with that from any other power, but it doesn't stack from the same power. If you're using ST attacks on one target, it's pretty easy to maintain 3 stacks.

 

The only power I slot multiple procs in is Howl (2). I've got the defender ATO procs in Screech and Dreadful Wail and a full set of Bombardment (including the proc) in Siren's Song.

[MoonSheep]

9 minutes ago, Uun said:

The new Sonic system has the same strength -res on each power with an 8s duration for Shriek, Scream and Howl, 10s for Shout, 15s for Screech and 20s for Dreadful Wail. The -res value is 15% for defenders, 11.25% for corruptors, 9.75% for blasters and 7.2% for sentinels. The debuff from one power stacks with that from any other power, but it doesn't stack from the same power. If you're using ST attacks on one target, it's pretty easy to maintain 3 stacks.

 

The only power I slot multiple procs in is Howl (2). I've got the defender ATO procs in Screech and Dreadful Wail and a full set of Bombardment (including the proc) in Siren's Song.

 

-45% res on a defender combined with fulcrum shift is the reason i keep playing mine. if someone on the team also has a -res power that’s when things really start to get fun

 

@Lhanis i personally find playing a defender very liberating *because* of the fact my damage output is meaningless. some sessions i’ll want to be the one slinging out the damage, other times it’s fun to be the buffer and debuffer

 

i think deciding on what suits your playstyle the best will help you land on the right alt

 

regardless, like others have alluded to, it’s a fantastic set and hard to get wrong. if you keep SB up on your team and FS regularly you’ll have a great time

[Maelwys]

1 hour ago, Lhanis said:

Good information all around though, I do appreciate the pointers. I hadn't realized Sonic has changed again, Mids still reflects old values and the Short/Lingering vibrations system... I may need to reconsider my power picks in that case. What has me curious then is wether or not I should be chasing procs on Sonic Blast over full sets; If the -res componant is higher and more straightforward now it feels like I should be implementing recharge to keep it layered over worrying about PPM, and I know procbombing Siren Song will kill the sleep effect entirely. 

I don't think that's true... IIRC Siren's Song applies the Sleep "after 0.25s" precisely to avoid procs waking them up...
So by all means proc it up and potentially stick an Annihilation -Res in it too.

Also since you're going for -Res; I'd very much recommend picking up Corrosive Vial from the Experimentation pool and using it for an Achilles Heel proc.
And ideally Electricity Mastery for Thunderstrike (damage procs plus a Fury of the Gladiator -Res proc!)

[Lhanis]

I put this together to give it a run and see how I feel about it. My power picks/slotting won't be to everyone's taste of course, I take a lot of powers for "flavor" over minmax (see Dark Embrace), but I figured it's at least worth sharing so people can yell at me for my poor choice of pool powers 🥲

 

Notes:

- Shout and Scream slotting is interchangable. I could make better use of the ATO by splitting it, especially since I'm forgoing Hasten, but it's probably not that important and the free global acc and bit of AoE Def is nice.

- The 4piece LotGs are much of the same. I could probably get better slotting on Stealth and Maneuvers, but Transfusion and Shockwave could use the help as far as acc and the HP is nice.

- Power Boost likely isn't doing much for me here but I've always found it makes a nice +Def button on Def/Corr, and the fact that it bumps up the +End on Speedboost is nice (it also entertains me that it boosts runspeed as well, for those who forgot/didn't disable it at Null). Bonus: I get to occasionally use @MoonSheep's signature Power Boosted Veng!

- Stealth IO should probably be in Sprint over taking up a slot on Hover, but I see it as QoL as I am lazy and don't like flicking Sprint on and off. Kin likely won't care about the extra toggle cost and I could just leave it running, but... eh.

 

I'll take it to 50 and see how I feel, maybe tweak things here and there. But this should be good enough for now. And if all else fails and I'm not satisfied with it, I can strip it for a Kin/Sonic Def just to have for party play. Ya'll are wonderful people, and your advice was lovely as always!

 

Edit: I realized when browsing my enhancement tables that I forgot Amplify - dropped Infiltration and slotted Gaussian proc into it. Even a weak BU is still free damage for Wail! Oops!

Corruptor - Sonic Kin wip.mbd

Edited Tuesday at 12:09 AM by Lhanis

[Uun]

4 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

-45% res on a defender combined with fulcrum shift is the reason i keep playing mine.

On my Poison/Sonic I get to -110% res before stacking Envenom on a nearby target or including Achille's Heel.

[MoonSheep]

7 hours ago, Uun said:

On my Poison/Sonic I get to -110% res before stacking Envenom on a nearby target or including Achille's Heel.

 

are you excelsior? that combined with my kin/sonic def would be a wild ride

[MoonSheep]

11 hours ago, Lhanis said:

I put this together to give it a run and see how I feel about it. My power picks/slotting won't be to everyone's taste of course, I take a lot of powers for "flavor" over minmax (see Dark Embrace), but I figured it's at least worth sharing so people can yell at me for my poor choice of pool powers 🥲

 

Notes:

- Shout and Scream slotting is interchangable. I could make better use of the ATO by splitting it, especially since I'm forgoing Hasten, but it's probably not that important and the free global acc and bit of AoE Def is nice.

- The 4piece LotGs are much of the same. I could probably get better slotting on Stealth and Maneuvers, but Transfusion and Shockwave could use the help as far as acc and the HP is nice.

- Power Boost likely isn't doing much for me here but I've always found it makes a nice +Def button on Def/Corr, and the fact that it bumps up the +End on Speedboost is nice (it also entertains me that it boosts runspeed as well, for those who forgot/didn't disable it at Null). Bonus: I get to occasionally use @MoonSheep's signature Power Boosted Veng!

- Stealth IO should probably be in Sprint over taking up a slot on Hover, but I see it as QoL as I am lazy and don't like flicking Sprint on and off. Kin likely won't care about the extra toggle cost and I could just leave it running, but... eh.

 

I'll take it to 50 and see how I feel, maybe tweak things here and there. But this should be good enough for now. And if all else fails and I'm not satisfied with it, I can strip it for a Kin/Sonic Def just to have for party play. Ya'll are wonderful people, and your advice was lovely as always!

 

Edit: I realized when browsing my enhancement tables that I forgot Amplify - dropped Infiltration and slotted Gaussian proc into it. Even a weak BU is still free damage for Wail! Oops!

Corruptor - Sonic Kin wip.mbd 42.31 kB · 3 downloads

 

some thoughts, many are personal taste:

- hover is an awful choice for a kin which is a really active and movement heavy set. you'll frequently be jumping into combat for fulcrum shift, jumping away for cones etc. it will make you a sitting duck

- intertial reduction is one of the best travel powers in the game. unlike regular travel powers it doesn't suffer from the temporary movement debuff after attacking, very liberating!

- if you have combat TP and teleport you mayaswel get fold space, it's useful for fulcrum shift at times. i'd drop increase density for it

- i know people like building for defense, but speed boost is overslotted and a poor use of slots. put some more into siphon speed and fulcrum shift would be my choice, it's useful at low levels and handy for AVs that like to run, esp with power boost. make sure your generic IO's are +5'd too

- why the chance for +heal in sirens song? you have transfusion

- pick an accurate healing IO set for transfusion. it needs accuracy and you will experience situations where a heal is the difference between life and death, missing once can be fatal!

- no siphon power? sad noises. it's great for low levels and stacks nicely with fulcrum shift when you're fighting AVs

- yeah, definitely get amplify

- incarnate choice could be more optimum, i'd go with spiritual core for the +45% recharge and +33% heal

[Lhanis]

1 hour ago, MoonSheep said:

- hover is an awful choice for a kin which is a really active and movement heavy set. you'll frequently be jumping into combat for fulcrum shift, jumping away for cones etc. it will make you a sitting duck

 

Hover is there both for theme and because I've played so long with it I don't think I could go without. I get lost in battles easily, and being able to sit above the chaos helps me keep track of where I am and need to be. It also makes cones much easier to deal with, in my experience. Siphon Speed keeps it moving more than fast enough for me to dip in and out of proper ranges, even if it's slower than more experienced players would like.

 

1 hour ago, MoonSheep said:

- intertial reduction is one of the best travel powers in the game. unlike regular travel powers it doesn't suffer from the temporary movement debuff after attacking, very liberating!

 

See above. Hover's not something I'm willing to drop, and I like Tele as travel. I also frequently run with a dear friend who is... directionally challenged, and a bit spoiled - hence Tele Target. On top of all of that... IR just bugs the hell out of me lol. I've never been a Jumper in CoH, and the floaty air movement is something I could never get the hang of. 

 

1 hour ago, MoonSheep said:

- if you have combat TP and teleport you mayaswel get fold space, it's useful for fulcrum shift at times. i'd drop increase density for it

 

Agreed, and the only reason it isn't there is simply because I thought extra LotG mules might be more important. Will probably drop Infiltration for it on the next pass. I like Density just because it's an easy and early place to put Res Set uniques, and the bit of +Res it does give helps some low level groups out. I'll probably keep it just on the grounds that it's another skill that doesn't really need slot investment.

 

1 hour ago, MoonSheep said:

- i know people like building for defense, but speed boost is overslotted and a poor use of slots. put some more into siphon speed and fulcrum shift would be my choice, it's useful at low levels and handy for AVs that like to run, esp with power boost. make sure your generic IO's are +5'd too

 

Generics are +5, even if I forgot to do so in mids. The slotting on SB and Transference is mostly just because I wasn't really sure what to do with them and it seemed like a good set bonus. Playing this combo for a bit though, I'm learning real fast that chasing RDef is not nearly as valuable as I expected with the amount of time I'm in the middle of things. I'm just not sure what is good here.

 

1 hour ago, MoonSheep said:

- why the chance for +heal in sirens song? you have transfusion

 

No joke, it's there because I forgot Transfusion doesn't deal damage that would break Siren's sleep. I had it in my head for some reason that I'd be needing to use CC to make it safe enough for me to get in for FS/Trans, which... isn't realistic, tbh. Will be removing it. Probably for Posi proc, as not much else will go there.

 

1 hour ago, MoonSheep said:

- pick an accurate healing IO set for transfusion. it needs accuracy and you will experience situations where a heal is the difference between life and death, missing once can be fatal!

 

This is something I struggle with on my Dark Def as well, PM is such a fantastic overall set that makes me want to slot it there, but being a to-hit check heal means constant suffering if I do. But where Twilight Grasp generally doesn't feel worth pressing for anyone but myself due to the need for melee range and slow cast time, I'm getting a lot of work out of Transfusion and I do think I'll be changing it's set. Doing so would make me a little more comfortable changing up the slotting in Stealth and Maneuvers to something more useful as well.

 

1 hour ago, MoonSheep said:

- no siphon power? sad noises. it's great for low levels and stacks nicely with fulcrum shift when you're fighting AVs

 

Siphon Power is simply a victim of the power pick limit. It's a nice-to-have, but one I felt I could live without in order to fit what else I wanted. I'm also already plenty busy, and It'd be losing out on Sonic's -Res stacks trying to maintain copies of it.

 

1 hour ago, MoonSheep said:

- yeah, definitely get amplify

 

I'm actually second guessing this. Generally I take Build Up/Aim late, and leave it to line up with my nuke. But Amplify is a weaker BU, and I'm already getting a ton of value out of FS in the same level ranges I'd have it if I did take it... so I'm wondering if it's even necessary. 

 

1 hour ago, MoonSheep said:

- incarnate choice could be more optimum, i'd go with spiritual core for the +45% recharge and +33% heal

 

I went Intuition Radial for one specific reason - Musculature is only providing me Damage and Endmod, and I don't see having more Endmod being useful to me. Intuition trades that for Range, which helps wonders for the cones as Sonic has short ones already (plus, even longer teleports is never bad, I've spent the past few weeks being a mobile taxi for all the shadow shard TFs). Spiritual Core would tank my PPM on the proc'd skills, and I feel like I have more than enough Global +Rech that it just isn't needed. All that'd do would push me to FS to damage cap a bit faster, and that could just as easily happen with a single extra recharge in FS. I'd also prefer a +damage alpha, simply because Sonic needs all the help it can get with my intent to make this a solo-capable beast.

 

 

[Lhanis]

I had the day off and I did end up taking this to 50 over the course of it (Double-Double xp is hilarious, ToT took me to mid 20s, Moonfire got me to mid 30s, took a break for Patron arc, and then ITFx2 to 50. Almost made it in my first 8 hours of START vender xp boost). And... I'm in love, to be frank. I know Kinetics is doing a lot of the heavy lifting, but Sonic turned out to really be my jam - I'm very fond of the control-heavy blast sets after all the time I've spent in my abusive relationship with Dark Blast. It's keeping me safe enough to figure out how to Kin properly, with minimal faceplanting.

 

While durability might be an issue solo, raw power is keeping me moving a lot faster than I expected and it's just been outright fun to play. I do believe Corruptor was the right choice for me though, as once Kinetics gets into it's rhythm you have a surprising amount of time to blast It also gave me my full suite of AoEs very early (I exemplar a lot, this was important to me) even if I do have to wait longer for FS because of it.

 

It needs some tweaking, but it is absolutely going into my permanent roster. I already have plans to take a crack at maybe Ice or Energy/Kin, but that is a problem for later me - right now I'm just having a grand ol' time getting it settled in with incarnates.

[Uun]

5 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

are you excelsior? that combined with my kin/sonic def would be a wild ride

That toon is (I'm about 2/3 excelsior and 1/3 torchbearer).

[kelika2]

the combo is nice but you wont be as strong as you think its ganna be, -res and +dmg are additive and not multiplicative

 

and, sadly, in practice you wont have time to stack -resist to any meaningful amount.  when you fulcrum shift others they turn into killing machines and for high priority targets lore pets get dropped on said target.

[Lhanis]

4 hours ago, kelika2 said:

the combo is nice but you wont be as strong as you think its ganna be, -res and +dmg are additive and not multiplicative

 

and, sadly, in practice you wont have time to stack -resist to any meaningful amount.  when you fulcrum shift others they turn into killing machines and for high priority targets lore pets get dropped on said target.

 

I don't think the combo is strong, it's Kinetics that is. As noted above, this was largely an exercise in seeing what I can do to make up for Sonic's shortcomings and hopefully make it into something I can comfortably solo with. And with the help of the folks in this thread, I'd say it was an overall success.

 

Fulcrum Shift was always going to be the breadwinner here, and that's perfectly fine - that's just how it goes with Kinetics. Besides, in content where people have access to lore pets, 90% of peoples builds hardly matter in the first place, and that's not unique to this scenario. The focus on Sonic's -res is purely for my own benefit when I'm not in a party.