page 3 [FOCUSED FEEDBACK] Demon Summoning Adjustments

[The Curator]

Demon Summoning

• Corruption
  • Recharge reduced from 4s to 3s.
  • Endurance cost reduced from 6.5 to 4.368.
  • Damage has not been changed, the power had higher recharge than intended.
  • Toxic DoT should properly display its percentage chance in the power window
• Lash
  • Recharge reduced from 8s to 5s.
  • Endurance cost reduced from 10.66 to 6.032.
  • Damage has not been changed, the power had higher recharge than intended.
  • Toxic DoT should properly display its percentage chance in the power window
• Crack Whip
  • Recharge reduced from 15s to 11s.
  • Endurance cost reduced from 17.94 to 11.024.
  • Damage has not been changed, the power had higher recharge than intended.
  • Toxic DoT should properly display its percentage chance in the power window

• Summon Demons

  • This power no longer accepts Heal enhancements or sets

  • This power no longer accepts Resist enhancements or sets

• Enchant Demons

  • Now takes Resistance enhancement and Sets

  • No longer has a recharge time

  • No longer grants Abyssal Mending to the Ember Demon

  • Resist enhancements in this power should improve Ember Demon's Ember Shield

• Abyssal Empowerment

  • Now takes Healing Enhancements and Sets

  • No longer has a recharge time

  • Now grants Abyssal Mending to the Ember Demon

  • Healing enhancements in this power should improve Ember Demon's Abyssal Mending and Abyssal Reconstruction

[BRADICAL]

I've been saying it a lot in Discord already, but these are straight nerfs to the whip attacks. I get that the changes were made to ensure they respect the damage formula since the DoT ignores it, but as it stands these are only going to impact proc chances and divorce Demons from the design logic that all of the other MM primary attacks use. The lower recharge values will otherwise have zero real impact on a finished build with enough global recharge to have a proper attack chain.

 

The easy solution is to just do the following:

• Restore the recharge numbers and end costs back to what they were, increase the base damage to match the damage formula, and remove the % chance toxic DoT from the attacks.
• Move the -res, potentially at a lower value like -7.5%, to the 30 second logic that all the other MM attacks use, and have each whip attack apply a unique non-stacking version up to a maximum of -22.5%. The ceiling comes down from -28.14%, but the higher overall uptime should balance out without affecting overall DPS too much since maintaining a third stack 100% of the time wasn't always happening with all the other higher priority attacks in a rotation.
• Shuffle in a minor, mostly for flavor 30 second toxic DoT onto the -res effects.

Whips are unnerfed, the core design functionality of all MM attacks is maintained without adversely affecting any one type of player, and pretty much everyone is happy. Even though I'm not a fan of Crack Whip and skip it on my current build, I'd take it over Elec Fences with anything resembling the changes outlined above, since making the -res application overall less spammy is a gameplay improvement.

 

There's a discussion to be had over all of the MM primary attacks following similar design logic of 4/8/16s recharge values since there are a handful that are outright terrible (Ninjas, Thugs) and could see improvements to be used in an actual attack rotation instead of outsourcing damage to pool powers. The whips were already a very desirable attack chain, though, and should be brought back and given the same coat of polish all the other MM attacks have gotten as far as their design logic goes, for consistency reasons if nothing else.

[Thraxen]

I think it’s great. They are end hogs as is. I personally hate damage proc and wish they were one per power. But that is what it is at this point. 

[BRADICAL]

7 hours ago, Thraxen said:

I think it’s great. They are end hogs as is. I personally hate damage proc and wish they were one per power. But that is what it is at this point. 

If you were already slotting them for sets, these changes are even less likely to affect you in any meaningful way, since slotted endurance reduction and recharge are superfluous with how easy it is to solve both of those issues on a global scale and have a viable attack chain using global recharge alone.

 

It's not like MMs can't just go for a better power like Cross Punch or any number of things from the epic pools to make up for the loss, but intentionally dialing back the whips from being the strong part of an attack chain doesn't feel good at all. Procs still exist and are an important part of MMs staying competitive with other ATs, so this has a noticeable impact on performance with zero positive gain for any finished build.

 

And in the end, it still looks weird that Demons isn't following the same design logic of all the other MM primaries, when there's an easy solution for that right here.

[Eirei07]

What does Enchant Demons actually grants to Ember Demon now? Just Fire Breath? It seems to list Fire Shield in the power info, but the Summon Demons info still have Fire Shield on the list of Ember Demon basic power? Also, the numbers of Fire Shield Owner doesn't seem right.

 

Will post more as I continue testing.

 

[Maelwys]

2 hours ago, Eirei07 said:

What does Enchant Demons actually grants to Ember Demon now? Just Fire Breath? It seems to list Fire Shield in the power info, but the Summon Demons info still have Fire Shield on the list of Ember Demon basic power? Also, the numbers of Fire Shield Owner doesn't seem right.

 

Will post more as I continue testing.

 

IIRC the T1 Upgrade powers should allow the inherent pet resistances to be enhanceable.
The T2 is giving the Ember Demon a separate buff power ('Ember Shield'; along with its counterpart 'Ember Shield Owner').

Try checking the stats of Ember Shield Owner whenever your toon is actually being buffed by it - it wouldn't be the first time the preview info was using the wrong scalars.
 

[Eirei07]

I notice the base healing value for both Abyssal Mending and Abyssal Reconstruction got reduced. Why is this? I don't believe this was communicated in the patch notes.

 

Live:

Abyssal Mending: 209.9 heal

Abyssal Reconstruction: 107.9 heal

Test:

Abyssal Mending: 188.36 heal

Abyssal Reconstruction: 96.1 heal

Edited Thursday at 11:28 AM by Eirei07

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

It might be due to HP changes on some pets.  Can you check the HP on the thing(s) you healed on live/test and the HP of the caster as well?

[Eirei07]

37 minutes ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

It might be due to HP changes on some pets.  Can you check the HP on the thing(s) you healed on live/test and the HP of the caster as well?

 

T1 and T2 pet hp definitely changed. The caster is one of the T2 pets (Ember Demon). T3 is unchanged, though.

 

T1 hp

Live: 574

Test: 448

T2 hp

Live: 768

Test: 645

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

Those are the numbers listed in the complete, big patch notes:

 

Quote

• Tier 1 henchmen max HP decreased from 574 to 448
• Tier 2 henchmen max HP decreased from 768 to 654

 

But  . . . hmmm . . . CoD lists the formula for Abyssal Mending as [Heal (1.96 * Ranged_Heal) points of damage] and Abyssal Reconstruction as [Heal (1.0 * Ranged_Heal)] points of damage.  The Ranged_Heal table for a level 50 MM in 107.0897, which gives you precisely the live numbers you listed.  CoD is not listing any change in live vs beta, but it doesn't always keep up with the changes.

 

I've asked a dev for more info.

 

Thanks for testing!

[Captain Powerhouse]

On 11/12/2025 at 7:12 AM, Eirei07 said:

What does Enchant Demons actually grants to Ember Demon now? Just Fire Breath? It seems to list Fire Shield in the power info, but the Summon Demons info still have Fire Shield on the list of Ember Demon basic power? Also, the numbers of Fire Shield Owner doesn't seem right.

 

 

Enchant Demons grants Ember Fire Breath, it also revokes their current Shield of Hellfire and replaces it with an enhanceable version.

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

Captain Powerhouse broke something when moving furniture, but it's fixed in a build coming soon!

 

[Eirei07]

Rechecked the base healing value for Abyssal Mending & Abyssal Reconstruction after the recent update. Looks like it's fixed now. Good work!

Edited yesterday at 12:58 PM by Eirei07

[BRADICAL]

Just another point to illustrate something that isn't in the patch notes, aside from the whip nerfs: left image is Live, right is Beta.

 

The numbers tuning definitely hit Demons harder than the other sets (cuts by as much as 50% even on the T2s, and a lot of % chance DoTs being lowered or even added like here), which helps to explain why my +4 clear times aren't any better—I'm pretty sure the goal was to bring the set closer in line with the other primaries, but it's worth mentioning that the tuning on Demons was a definitive nerf across the board for people who might go into it with expectations that they'll be seeing performance improvements at +3 and higher. And the hit to even con is pretty enormous compared to Live, obviously.

[ScarySai]

Stealth nerfs? Really?

 

I had some suspicions after comparing how the thugs were doing relative to the demon mm.

 

Disappointing, but hardly surprising at this point.

Edited yesterday at 04:04 PM by ScarySai
Grammar

[BRADICAL]

With the pet powers fixed, the post-update testing results are showing at least a modest improvement compared to Live now, although not as big as the improvements the other primaries are seeing (with the -res and whip nerfs being the most likely causes). This is at least a good foundational point since it isn't a sidegrade for DPS, Demons remain on top in MM terms and survivability is improved the same way as all the other MMs. New times clocked:

• Pylon: 40s
• +4 dummy: 79s
• +4x8 clear: 315s

The petty little devil on my shoulder is still whispering that I wish these initiatives to balance out the status quo were more consistent across the various iterations of all the other ATs (in other words, that the top performing MM was tuned downwards with simple number tweaks, but things like Fire and Ice Blast have gone untouched for ages in spite of being the literal meta). But I recognize that bringing Demons down a little makes sense for the balance of the AT as a whole—I just wish it didn't come at the cost of the whips.