[New Archetype Idea: The Engager]

7 hours ago, Rudra said:

And here is where that analogy comparison breaks down. Tankers and Brutes ice up. They manifest a personal power. Defenders, Controllers, and Corruptors project their abilities at a single target, icing them up for protection. Your proposal is an AoE effect that somehow only benefits your character. It isn't an innately a personally manifested defense like Tankers and Brutes. It isn't a single target projected ability protecting allies. It is an ice storm affecting an area but only benefitting you. That logic fails.

 

Ice Shields and Thermal shields are applied to the entire group (not even just team members but league mates) at the same time.   Well...ALMOST the entire group.  You can get everyone but yourself.  Because...reasons.   Ice Sentinels can CLEARLY create ice constructs outside of their immediate skin, since they create piercing icicles constantly around them, patches of ice one the ground,  bursts of ice in the air, and can even encase a foe in ice so thick they completely held from a distance.  Yet they can't seem make an ice shield for you.  Life's weird, you know? So yes. When Engagers summon Gun Drone, the Kevlar Nano-burst only affects themselves- maybe it's because they have magnetic stitching that attracts it. Who knows.  And when they summon a Frozen Fissure at their feet, the opening of the fissure encases only them in a layer of frost and ice. Maybe it's because they know only they would be immune to getting frostbite.  When they call down an Infernal Rain they gather up the accompanying ash as a temporary protection for just themselves. Maybe there isn't enough ash for more than one person, or maybe the ash is still damned hot and putting it on someone who isn't innately immune to fire would burn the hell out of them.  Who knows. It's "reasons" that make the powers work this way.  The same reason a kinetic can increase the mass of everyone around them for protection, but can't seem to it to themselves, but they CAN lower their own inertia alongside everyone else and jump super far.   
 
So again, there is nothing "weird" about having powers that are limited in who they affect for reasons we don't quite understand. The game is literally filled with them.  

 

Edit:  I went back and edited the initial descriptions of the HP/Absorb granting powers to reflect this line of thinking.  

[New Archetype Idea: The Engager]

11 hours ago, Rudra said:

 

Gun Drone: You set up a gun drone turret at your location. While immobile, the drone rapid fires at targets within its engagement range.

   If the gun drone sets up a shield, then you are talking about a force field. Which should also benefit any allies that get behind it. Hello. combined FFG and gun drone.

 

Pulsing Orb: You create a plasma orb at your location that repels targets, inflicting minor energy damage as it does.

   If the orb can boost your health, then why can't it also boost the health of your allies?

 

So your pitch is either armor that for some reason the character chooses not to maintain, which would require dedicated armor powers or an armor set, or an effect that in actuality boost every ally in the effect area, or an effect that hinders enemies rather than boosting the character. Do you see the problem I ahve with this element of the AT? If you can armor up, then why aren't you maintaining the armor while you fight? If the benefit is a field or a shield, then why aren't your allies also benefitting from it? If the effect affects your enemies and hinders them, then it is an effect that attacks and hinders your enemies.

 

 

I thought about this again, I just want to point out: 

 

Defenders, Corruptors, and Controllers ALL have access to Cold Domination, which allows them to master ice to the point of being able to cover their allies with ice shields that deflect damage, and layers of frost that absorb damage,  yet for some reason in the game they can't apply these same effects to themselves.  Meanwhile Tankers can cover themselves ice shields, etc. but can't do that to others.   There is also Thermal for defenders, which allows them to control fire and grant firey shields around friends, give them status resistance by thawing them out, or even boost their damage and accuracy, but for some reason in the game they can't apply these effects to themselves. Fire tankers can do it to themselves but not others.   Sonic users can create sound barriers for every single person around them, but for some reason not themselves.   Storm defenders can control the wind to oxygenate an ally, healing them and giving them status protection, but they can't seem to figure out how to send that wind to themselves.

This game has a long history of some powers working differently depending on the archetype of the user even if, in theory, they should be able to apply to others (or themselves).   And as I showed, with a simple tweak of the power description you can easily explain why if you really felt like you needed to for immersion. 

 

 

[New Archetype Idea: The Engager]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

Personally, I think your proposed AT works better as a specific blast set available to ranged ATs rather than as an AT. Certain power effects are conducive to what you are trying for while others are not.

What about an Epic Archetype, with some branching options for pets? So you always have attacks that also heal, and melee that also gives +end, but  you can select from like 4 single pets that offer different minor supplements like listed above?  Maybe one offers mez protection, but another offers +Rech, etc.  when in the guard mode?  

[New Archetype Idea: The Engager]

17 minutes ago, Rudra said:

So here is an AT with ranged attacks, auto-heals and/or damage mitigation built into every ranged attack, debuffs built into several attacks, melee attacks, mez protection, buffs, and a pet. Seriously, look at what you made and tell me it doesn't do all of that. You have the support type covered. You have the pet type covered, even if only a single upgradeable pet, which is better than MMs get since 5 of their 6 pets degrade as they level up. You have the melee type covered between the melee attacks and the built in damage mitigation or reduction plus mez protection. You have the ranged type covered. What does your AT not do?!

 

Adjust the primary powers to either grant a minor heal when used, grant minor absorb when used, or grant a debuff effect. Not all of the above. Make the AT not do everything under the sun.

 It does only the SECONDARY EFFECTS that already exist for any given powerset, and since those powersets' damage levels are built around those secondaries, you can't just get rid of Ice's slows, or electric's -end, or sonics' -res without increasing the damage like fire has.  And no, it doesn't have buffs.  The only "buff" I can see is one Aim power in its primary, which is standard for blast sets, and one tier 9 AoE mez power that boosts spd and jump as an "escape" power.  And I'll need you to explain "ou have the pet type covered, even if only a single upgradeable pet, which is better than MMs get since 5 of their 6 pets degrade as they level up" because Mastermind pets actually get TWO Pet increases as they level, which gives each of their pets MULTIPLE new attacks.  Again, the pet in this secondary does about the kind of damage that a single tier 1 Mastermind pet does, and then has the ability to be WEAKENED in exchange for saving the player from mez when needed.  
 
Sentinels got "full armor sets, full blast sets, full mez protection, secondary damage mitigation or debuffs built into the secondaries of each attack, and buffs" by this logic.  Except they really didn't. They got the standard blast sets that include the standard effects of blast power, they got the typical armor sets that give mez protection as well, and they got some added effects on some powers with their inherent that make them either more survivable or more damaging.  It's about the balance of those mechanics.  The same would be with this archetype.  The heals offered by the single target attacks and absorb from pets would be enough that, if used effectively, can keep you alive as long as you keep attacking and don't miss too much.   The secondary attacks keep your end up and give you moments to break briefly if you miss too much or recharge isn't enough to keep you attacking and healing enough.  That's it.  

[New Archetype Idea: The Engager]

3 minutes ago, Rudra said:

 

Look, having a blast set that heals you (very slightly) with all of its attacks would be a novel concept. No argument there. However, the heals would have to be limited in scope. They should not be strong enough to make the set feel like a regen' scrapper blaster as a single power set. I trust the devs to figure that out if they decide to tackle it. Absorb is an amazingly effective mechanic. A single absorb proc' has saved my brutes on many occasions when their armors were rendered worthless. So the absorb component would also have to be very slight or you would effectively have a better than armor armor set integrated into all your primary attacks. Or the absorb component could be unaffected by enhancements. Gaining increases to your max HP is also a highly effective mechanic. It not only gives you more HP for the mobs to have to whittle down, it also increases your regeneration rate automatically since your regeneration is derived from your max HP. If you want to include any of these mechanics into the primary sets' attacks? Then that should be the only secondary effect of any of the attacks. And only one of those three effects should be allowed for any one attack. I have no problems with any of that.

 

This I complete agree with, and think this is actually constructive feedback and discussion. Thank you.  

[New Archetype Idea: The Engager]

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

 

Gun Drone: You set up a gun drone turret at your location. While immobile, the drone rapid fires at targets within its engagement range.

   If the gun drone sets up a shield, then you are talking about a force field. Which should also benefit any allies that get behind it. Hello. combined FFG and gun drone.

 

Pulsing Orb: You create a plasma orb at your location that repels targets, inflicting minor energy damage as it does.

   If the orb can boost your health, then why can't it also boost the health of your allies?

 

Here is what I actually wrote for Gun Drone: "You launch a short lived Gun Drone on the ground at your feet.  This drone remains stationary, but will attack any foes within range with rapid fire projectiles.  Activating this drone releases a small cloud of Kevlar nano-particles that cling to your skin, absorbing a moderate amount of incoming damage."  It doesn't "set up a shield."  It releases a one time cloud of nano-bots that attach to you.   That doesn't help anyone but you.  If you really feel like you need a detailed breakdown of the mechanics, you are wearing a specialized magnetic clothing that attracts them, and you just couldn't afford to make enough for everybody.  I'll send you the schematics via mail. 

As for the Orb: I dunno. Maybe my body which is somehow able to generate and create energy blasts, etc. is uniquely able to ALSO be charged from them in a way yours isn't.  I'm special, you know?   Just like the MANY powers in this game that only affect self but, I mean, really, should be affecting others if we had any actual control over that kind of power. 

 

 

These are the kinds of answers, given the way powers work in this game in a MILLION creative ways, that suggest you're less interested in actually discussing this as a possibility and how it would work and more interested in point out why it can't, but without giving any real thought.  I mean, no one has YET to explain to me how someone can literally COVER me in Ice sheets cold enough or flames hot enough to stop incoming bullets and hammers and swords but NOT give me frostbite or burn my hair off. It's called suspension of disbelief.  This game is filled with it.  But somehow your using your powers in a way that can protect you but not others is where you draw the line and must criticize.  Which is fine...if that somehow is beneficial or entertaining for you.  But do you remember all those years people asked for a blast/armor set and were told "you just want the best of everything"?  Or when they said they wanted a kinetic mastermind and were told "You just want the best of everything and it would be easy mode"?  Your complains so far seem more like that to me than genuinely though about concerns about how this archetype would function and whether that might be appealing to part of the player base. 

 

[New Archetype Idea: The Engager]

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

Then you are talking about the character being able to armor up. And if the character can armor up, then why doesn't the character just maintain the armor?

 

Frozen Fissure: You open a fissure in the earth at your location that spews forth freezing air. The freezing air slows targets in its area or the freezing air chills targets causing them to be less accurate as they shiver or other effect.

   If the fissure can encase you in ice that absorbs damage, then you are talking about an armor and the character should be able to maintain it. That is an armor power.

 

Infernal Fire: You summon a rain of blazing fire at your location that burns foes and slows them.

   If the rain can encase you in ash that absorbs damage, then you are talking about an armor and the character should be able to maintain it. That is an armor power.

 

Gun Drone: You set up a gun drone turret at your location. While immobile, the drone rapid fires at targets within its engagement range.

   If the gun drone sets up a shield, then you are talking about a force field. Which should also benefit any allies that get behind it. Hello. combined FFG and gun drone.

 

Pulsing Orb: You create a plasma orb at your location that repels targets, inflicting minor energy damage as it does.

   If the orb can boost your health, then why can't it also boost the health of your allies?

 

So your pitch is either armor that for some reason the character chooses not to maintain, which would require dedicated armor powers or an armor set, or an effect that in actuality boost every ally in the effect area, or an effect that hinders enemies rather than boosting the character. Do you see the problem I ahve with this element of the AT? If you can armor up, then why aren't you maintaining the armor while you fight? If the benefit is a field or a shield, then why aren't your allies also benefitting from it? If the effect affects your enemies and hinders them, then it is an effect that attacks and hinders your enemies.

 

Here is a power set, not AT, that can work the way you are describing. Not surprisingly, it is a Dark set.

T1: Absorbing Blast: Attempts to absorb the life energy of the target, using that energy to fortify your own life.

T2: Draining Blast: Attempts to absorb the life energy of the target, using that energy to fortify your own life.

T3: Area Drain: Attempts to absorb the life energy of targets in the area, using that energy to fortify your own life.

T4-T9, see above.

 

In order for you to gain benefit personally from attacking or hindering a foe without it benefitting any allies with you, the attack has to be of an absorption style. Your character using his/her ability to steal energy from others and use it to benefit himself/herself like the Blue Ink Men from the Tsoo. That limits your power sets to a kinetics or a darkness approach. Fire burns. Ice freezes. Bullets tear and shred. If they are going to drain the target, then they need an added element to make that make sense. Hellfire can both burn and drain, but is also both fire and dark.

 

Edit: I am starting to think I should oppose the proposed AT. You are talking about combining armors with your attacks while maintaining buffs and picking up a at least semi-commandable pet. This AT is starting to look like the "I want everything" AT.

 

Edit again: Here is a big issue I have with your pitch now that I've had a chance to eat something. If all your primary powers grant you an armor effect, then you have taken the Sentinel AT and made it a power set instead. It doesn't matter if those armor effects expire after 30 seconds, 10 seconds, or even 5 seconds after you stop attacking. You have a free armor set built into the ranged attack set. That you can still pair with a combined support + MM-style pet in your secondary. So the proposed AT is a Sentinel-Mastermind with slightly reduced capabilities on both aspects.

The absorb mechanic is not an armor power. Blasters have absorbs in many of their secondaries, which don't get armors.  They aren't armors. Absorbs don't take armor enhancements like resist and defense sets, they take healing enhancements.   It feels like you're arguing about semantics instead of genuinely trying to entertain the idea or even find a way to make it work.  Which is fine, that's you're right. It's not super constructive though.   

For example, you made the statement "If all your primary powers grant you an armor effect, then you have taken the Sentinel AT and made it a power set instead. It doesn't matter if those armor effects expire after 30 seconds, 10 seconds, or even 5 seconds after you stop attacking. You have a free armor set built into the ranged attack set. That you can still pair with a combined support + MM-style pet in your secondary."  All your primary powers don't grant you an [absorb]. Exactly 3 of the 9 grant either an absorb OR a boost to HP. So it gets, at most, TWO more than current blaster sets like Ice and Plant.  As I said, absorbs aren't armors. Even if they were, though,  this set still doesn't have "a free armor set."  It has a blast set that offers self healing in some attacks and either some absorb or some bonus HP in a few others. So we're talking, with all pets deployed, maybe 200-300 HP of protection.   You then have your other attacks to try and keep the healing going after the alpha, or until you can relay another trap.  It gets no defense, no +res, etc. It may get some secondary mitigation like all powers, but that comes at the expense of raw damage, just like all sets.   Unlike Sentinels, it can't withstand alphas easily, and will struggle with prolonged AV fights with heavy hits, etc. unless it starts dealing out damage via a trap immediately.   Likewise it doesn't get "support" powers in its secondary; it has melee attacks, just like blasters, and has an uncontrollable pet that basically only offers a few minor or moderate attacks, or can be used as a status effect protection power (which a solo player often will need)  by losing its best attacks.  This comes in place of Build Up, and the control power it gets is only similar in strength to blasters, but comes at tier 9.    I can't think of another Achetype in the game whose survivability is entirely dependent on them continuing to stay in the fight attacking constantly, and having played that now, I think there's real potential for fun with it here.  It's a fun balance of trying to dish out damage while watching your health bar actually move up and down, which is far more interactive and exciting than the way armor sets in this game largely work, which tend to be "set and forget". 

     

[New Archetype Idea: The Engager]

29 minutes ago, Rudra said:

If you launch an attack, and that attack causes your enemies' attacks to be less powerful or less effective, then it affects their ability to affect anyone. Not just your character. That is a -damage effect, -accuracy effect, or both. Because it affects their ability to fight. Not yours.

 

Edit: The effect of it being a trap that affects the targets is a prime example of a power that afflicts the enemy, not enhances you.

 

Edit again: And if the trap is an ice storm and it casts a small layer of frost protection? It will grant that small layer of frost protection to the targets within the confines of the ice storm. Storms affect the area they are in. They don't provide direct enhancements to areas outside their area. And if your gun drone is providing you kevlar protection, then it is a very articulated gun drone and you would still be better off just putting the kevlar on instead of hoping your gun puts it on for you.

Frozen Fissure: You open a fissure in the earth at your feet that spews forth freezing air blasts at your foes periodically.  Opening this fissure encases you in a layer of frost and ice that absorbs a moderate amount of incoming damage.  (basically imagine the animation from Volcanic Gasses, but spewing icy blasts cold into the air around it).   Location based AoE, moderate cold damage over time, self +moderate base HP/absorb.
 

Infernal Fire: Summons a rain of blazing fire around your location, burning foes and reducing their movement speed.  Casting this rain encases you in a layer of solid ash, absorbing a moderate amount of damage.  Location based AoE, minor fire damage over time, Self +moderate base HP/absorb. 

Gun Drone: You launch a short lived Gun Drone on the ground at your feet.  This drone remains stationary, but will attack any foes within range with rapid fire projectiles.  Activating this drone releases a small cloud of Kevlar nano-particles that cling to your skin, absorbing a moderate amount of incoming damage. Location based AoE, moderate smashing/lethal. Self +moderate Absorb

 

Pulsing orb:  You create an orb of plasma energy at your location. This orb sends out waves of energy at nearby foes in a cone in front of you, knocking  them down and doing minor energy damage over time.  The orb's energy also supercharges your cells, boosting your maximum HP temporarily. Location based AoE, minor energy damage, Foe Knockdown, Self +HP.  


 

[New Archetype Idea: The Engager]

On 4/4/2023 at 9:47 AM, Rudra said:

The chaos from the attack causing your foes to be less effective would be a -damage effect, -accuracy effect, or both applied to the targets since it would not just benefit your character, but all characters those enemies may be attacking.

Maybe, but I think If it said "the chaos from the attacks causes your enemies attacks to be less power" or something, then that would inherently mean -dmg, and if it said "less accurate" this would be -acc. but "less effective" is sort of in between. It just doesn't damage you as much. 

As I said, you could easily say "Casting <trap> also creates a barrier of <cold/heat/energy/nano-particles> around you, absorbing a moderate amount of damage"  if that sits better with you.   So  dropping ice storm also casts a small layer of frost protection, a thermal trap like "Thermal Eruption" casts a layer of ash protection, a weapons cast like Gun Drone casts a layer of Kevlar nano-particle protection, etc.  

 

The great thing about this game is it plays fast and loose enough with physics you can basically explain any desired effect of a power and stay within the game's existing mechanics.  

[New Archetype Idea: The Engager]

52 minutes ago, Rudra said:

You made a ranged power set. Ranged power sets get Aim, not Build Up. Melee power sets get Build Up. Minor point.

 

I thought ToHit was capped at 95%? Or am I confusing things? I know my chances to hit a target are capped at 95% no matter what. (Edit: Also, why is this snipe working differently than the other snipes in the game for when it is fast cast or slow cast?)

 

I'm also trying to figure out how all those attacks grant the character +HP/absorb. I can see a dark set siphoning life from a target, but not a distantly placed patch of ice or hurled bolt of ice.

 

I otherwise don't have any real opinion on the set or AT. Just those three questions/comments.

Actually, you're partly right about snipes.  I forgot about the changes made on this server to snipes being in/out of combat fast snipes, but the 97% now triggers increased damage when fast.  

As for your question about how they trigger +HP/Absorb, it's explain in the power descriptions.  For example, with Ice Strorm, "The chaos from this attack cause your foes' attacks to be less effective, giving you added protection from the damage. "  If this doesn't sit right with you, you could easily say "The falling ice particles also absorb some income damage, boosting your own survivability."   Basically the traps absorb some of the enemy fire indirectly (not via taunt).   With the +end from the secondary, it's that the thrill of battle excites you and motivates you to continue fighting tirelessly.   

 

By the way, thanks for the catch on Build Up.  I swapped it in the description, and it now does +To Hit, some minor +Dmg, and offers a boost to healing.  

[New Archetype Idea: The Engager]

9 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

I'm pretty sure this is called a Peacebringer. 

 I'm curious in what way?  How do you see similarities? 

[New Archetype Idea: The Engager]

2 hours ago, biostem said:

I think this proposed AT has too much going on, and the reliance on either placing the AoE or attacking in order to survive means they couldn't really take the alpha strike.

Actually, placing an AoE immediately grants you a buff to your max HP and an absorb shield precisely for the alphas.  This more than a blaster has.  This archetype has less going on than a Defender, Corruptor, or controller if you think about it.  Those involve balancing team buffs, self heals and debuffs or controls, and then also trying to attack.  With the Engager, It's basically just entirely attack, attack, attack and that covers the self healing and buffing.    

 

Oh, it should be pointed out I think the AoEs should be dropped point blank (similar to Storm's lighting cloud, as opposed to how Sleet is placed, etc) except in powers that simply wouldn't work that way.  This would maintain the fast paced attacking feel.  That's how I play my blasters via macros, anyway, and it's much more efficient than having to drop them via a mouse in the heat of a battle. 

[New Archetype Idea: The Engager]

15 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

There are a few IO's that allow you to build a character that plays in this manner. The "entropic chaos" set works great for single target ranged damage and there is "power transfer" for your endurance modification powers and of course there are a ton of regen IO's in the health set that will aid you in this endeavor. water powers have a drain life skill or elec ranged will allow you to also siphon endurance + health when set up in this manner. Check out the Storm secondary set for corrupters the psuedo pets help with the damage with very few buffs or heals. In essence this playstyle is already available with a little inf and a lot of imagination 

 

 

I have to disagree in one key aspect: this playstyle IS available for certain specific powers in some powersets in certain archetypes, but nothing like this exists for an entire archetype. And honestly, if we start throwing in IOs as a way to do things, then we might as well scrap archetypes altogether, since IOs can make any archetype a fully armored, full damage dealing, high regen and end recovering monster. 

 

I say this as someone who has played hundreds of blasters, corruptors, and defenders to incarnate level.  While this playstyle is available to blasters or corruptors to some degree via IOs and specific powersets, so is tanking, frankly, but  that doesn't really "feel" the same as an archetype DESIGNED to function that way.  

 

[New Archetype Idea: The Engager]

So I have been playing a game with a unique combat system that rewards you for staying out of cover by healing you as you fight.  It created a frantic, incredibly fun play style.  I thought what a great way that would be to implement Guardians (or Sentinels, if they weren't already here), but since that is such an old, argued topic, I came up with my own archetype built around the idea.  This archetype is the kind of character in comics you'd see that thrives on battle, not mindlessly like a brute, but heroically and tactically.   That guy who charges head first in, inspiring others to follow, but who has the experience and know-how to fight intelligently. 

 

Archetype: The Engager.  The Engager is a master at battle, directly engaging with both their enemies and their allies to control any situation.  Engagers thrive in a conflict, and the more they battle the more exhilarated they become.  Engagers are at their best when they are in the fight directly, and their boldness can inspire their teammates to do the same.  Natural leaders, Engagers have a loyal companion who join them in battle. 

 

Inherent: Galvanize:  The Engager's battle expertise gives those around them a boost to damage and accuracy, and they've learned to use their own attacks to boost their health in various ways. 

 

 

*The Engager is like a brute version of a ranged character: the more action they're in, the more likely they are to survive.  They rely on a mix of ranged/ melee, and placed AoE attacks, but instead of relying on either defensive buffs from teammates or resistance and defense armors themselves, they survive via "healing" themselves through their own attacks.  Each -successful- single target ranged attack instantly heals them for a small portion of their hit points, while their placed AOE attack pets offer protection in the form of absorb shields and and increases in their base HP. Successful melee attacks motivate them and grant them endurance.  In short, the more traps they lay and the more they're attacking, the harder they are to kill.  Engagers also have one loyal companion as a key part of their secondary that offers additional attacks and buffs. 

 

Base HP:  1170.9-1306.6 (just above Corruptor/defender level at rest to Scrapper level when fighting).

 

Damage modifier:  ranged .85 (falling between a Kheld and a  Dominator), Melee 1.00 (blaster level).  Max damage boost is 400%, so lower than a blaster.  They do get an Aim- like power in their primary. 

 

Max healing- 500%. 

 

Companions: 

The companions are somewhere between a controller's pet and a mastermind's tier 1-2 pet.   At tier 1 they  have 1 minor ranged attack, 1 moderate AoE attack, and offer a small form of protection for the player in the form of added accuracy (which increases the likelihood of successful attacks that heal).  At tier 2 they offer an additional 1 high dmg attack and 1 AoE debuff or buff/minor damage attack.  They are largely uncontrollable, like controller pets, but share one direct control to help the player survive like a Mastermind's. When Battlefield Coordination is active, the pet moves close to the player, and the AoE attack and Debuff are swapped for Status Effect protection and a minor heal over time effect. Basically it lets you sacrifice damage for  status effect protection and healing in tough moments. 

 

**The secondary sets would be more limited in selection, at least at first, due to their diverse and unique playstyle, to make sure balancing is done correctly.  

 

Primary Powerset =  Combat
Tier 1:  Ranged, moderate damage , Single.  Self + minor hp
Tier 2:  Ranged, minor damage, foe immob or stun, self +minor hp
Tier 3:  Location based AoE pet, moderate damage over time, self +moderate base HP/absorb
Tier 4:  Ranged Targeted AoE, moderate damage, self +minor HP
Tier 5:  Locked In- Self +to hit, +DMG, +healing (5% for)
Tier 6:  Location based pet, single target damage over time, Self +moderate base HP/absorb
Tier 7:  Sniper- Extreme damage, self +absorb/ Heal over time
Tier 8:  Ranged, single target, superior damage, self
Tier 9:  Location based pet, AoE, DoT, Foe Status effect, Self +HP/Absorb.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Secondary Powerset:  Deployment **

Tier 1:  Melee Single target minor DMG,  foe status (immob or stun).  Self +end

Tier 2  Melee Single target Moderate DMG, Self +end

Tier 3  Companion (tier 1):  Various *

Tier 4  Melee single target High DMG,

Tier 5  Battlefield Coordination- Toggle Companion and Self +Status effect protection.

Tier 6  Direct  Companion:  unlocks Companion tier 2 powers, various.

Tier 7  melee AOE- High Damage, self +Recovery

Tier 8  Inspiration - PBAoE Heal/buff depending on powerset

Tier 9  Tactical Retreat- PBAoE Foe debuff (Mag 3), Self +SPD/JMP.

 

 

 

So here is what it would look like in actual theory: 

 

 

Primary Powerset =  Ice Combat
Tier 1: Bolt of Ice-  Ranged, moderate cold damage, Foe -rech.  Self + minor hp
Tier 2:  Chillbain Ranged, minor cold damage, foe immob or stun, self +minor hp
Tier 3:  Frozen Fissure: You open a fissure in the earth that spews forth freezing air blasts at your foes periodically.  Opening this fissure coats you in a layer of ice and frost, giving you added protection from damage.  (basically imagine the animation from Volcanic Gasses, but spewing icy blasts cold into the air around it).   Location based AoE, moderate cold damage over time, self +moderate absorb.
Tier 4:  Ice Ball:    You gather moisture in the air into a heavy ball of solid ice, hurling it at your enemies.  It explodes on impact, damaging nearby foes and slowing them.   (imagine the animation from Repulsing Torrent, only as you whirl your hands ice gathers that you launch at foes).  Ranged Targeted AoE, moderate cold damage, self +minor HP.
Tier 5:  Battle Focus- Self +To Hit, +DMG, Healing increase (+5 %)  (Build up)
Tier 6:  Ice storm:   You summon a bitterly cold rain of ice down around you. The ice is thick, damaging your foes, and clings to your icy skin, covering you in a layer of ice that boosts your total Hit Points.  Location based AoE, minor cold damage over time, Self +base HP.
Tier 7:  Focused Freeze-  A focused, long range shot that has high accuracy.  The brief exhilaration of a successful attack lets you ignore incoming damage.  If you have more than 97% to-hit, this attack becomes instant-cast.  Sniper, Extreme damage, foe -spd/recharge, self +absorb
Tier 8:  Bitter Ice Blast.  Ranged, single target, superior damage cold/smash, self +HP.
Tier 9:  Icy Refuge -  You encompass a large area in icy shards that immediately knock all but the strongest foes down.  These shards do cold and lethal damage to foes in the area, and foes have a good chance of continuing to slip and fall as they try to escape the afflicted area.  Your naturally cold body also collects ice from  the shards, protecting you from incoming damage.  (imagine a larger Sleet patch with ice shard animations added in, that removes the -res and -def in exchange for guaranteed knockdown on initial cast and strong chance of knockdown for the duration.) Location based pet, AoE, DoT cold, Foe Status effect, Self +HP/Absorb.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Secondary Powerset:  Ordinance Deployment

Tier 1:  Stun Glove. You strike at your foe briefly with an electrically charged glove.  The charge from the glove briefly stuns your target and does Melee Single target minor DMG electric/smashing,  foe stun.  Self +end

Tier 2  Baton Strike: You hit your foe with a retractable steel baton, dealing moderate smashing damage giving a short adrenal burst to yourself. Self +end

Tier 3  Companion (tier 1) Combat Drone:  You release a combat drone. This drone is finely tuned to your fighting style, and its AI is designed to aid you in several ways.   Tier 1 attacks: Stun Gun (Taser from Devices),  Static burst (Ball lighting from Electric Blast), and +accuracy.

Tier 4  Steel Toed Boots:  You strike at a foe's shins with steel toed boots, doing high damage and reduced their movement and attack speeds briefly.  This momentary respite lets you regain some endurance.  Melee single target High DMG, foe -spd, -rch,  self +end.

Tier 5  Battlefield Coordination- Toggle: Companion -attacks, Self +Status effect protection, healing over time.  You place your Combat Drone in Defensive coordination mode.  The drone reduces its attacks and focuses on protecting you by releasing a cloud of close stimulants around you.  You have strong resistance to status effects and some minor healing over time while Battlefield Coordination is active.

Tier 6  Advanced Mode:  You place your drone in Advanced mode, giving it greater capabilities.   This unlocks Companion tier 2 powers:  Laser Burst: single target Foe Heavy Damage energy, -res (10%); and Cloaking Field: AoE foe -To Hit, ally +Stealth.

Tier 7  :  Charged Suit:   You are wearing a specialized conductive material that generates energy as you move.  When needed, you release it in a burst of highly damaging force around you.  Some of that stored energy is released back to you boosting your recovery.  Melee AOE- High Damage energy, self +Recovery

Tier 8  Inspiration -  You strengthen your resolve, briefly inspiring your allies to do the same.  This allows you to briefly ignore your own pain and focus more clearly, increasing your to-hit.   (click PBAoE +Dmg, +HP)

Tier 9  Tactical Retreat- A good warrior knows when they may be overwhelmed.  When you find yourself in a dangerous situation, you release a grenade at your feet that releases toxins that you and your allies have been vaccinated against. The smoke momentarily blinds your foes, and then leaves all but the toughest foes sick momentarily.   PBAoE Foe -perception, vomit, (Mag 3), Self +SPD/JMP.

 

 

Some other secondary sets could include Infernal deployment with a fiery Orb or single Demon or Oni companion,  Darkness Deployment with a Litch or - Haunt-like companion,  Electric Deployment with a ball lightning  or Gremlin-like companion, Psionic deployment with a manifestation-like companion, etc.  

 

The general idea is a corruptor/blaster playstyle that REALLY incentivizes movement and action instead of cover, downtime, or relying on buffs from others.   You survive by attacking.  You do less damage than a blaster overall, but more than a Corruptor because you aren't stopping to buff and heal, and with the aid of a companion.  You have the benefits of sustain powers from blasters being built into the use of other powers. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Arcane Mastery New powerset for Blasters, Defenders, Corruptors and Sentinels]

16 hours ago, Rudra said:

Necromancy is the raising of the dead. Generally understood to be magic, but not limited to it. Raising the dead has been cast as a virus, as technological implants, and even as mutation.

 

Devices have always been a blanket tool for everyone regardless of what they are. Be the user a mutant (a la Cable), a natural (a la pick your favorite movie/TV show), science (a la pick your favorite movie/TV show), or technology (pick your favorite movie/TV show). Same thing for pick your choice of weapon.

 

Demon summoning is the summoning and binding of demons. Like with necromancy, it is generally understood to be magic, but it is not limited to it. You can build combat drones that look like demons (tech), make them in a lab (science), have a deal with demons that agree to aid you (for a price later) (natural), or manifest them from your psyche (mutation), as well as summon and bind them (magic). The summoning animation? Is simply how they arrive.

 

Mystic and arcane are magic. The whole purpose of the proposed power set is specifically magic.

 

Also? Wanda Maximoff's mutant ability is energy manipulation. She was taught to use it as if it was sorcery because she had no control over it as a child.

Robotics is the creation of Robots: technological humanoid machines.

  

It's clearly a technologically originating powerset.  Now, can a player make a "magic" origin Robotics mastermind? Sure!  Get creative. Just like Martial Arts and Dual Pistols are natural and tech origins but you could still add secondaries, etc that make them another origin.    

 

 

And using your own logic, someone could say their character's "magical blast" is the use of mystic energy as an attack. Generally understood to be pure true magic, but not limited to it.  It could be technology that allows you to focus and unleash mystic energy, or even a mutation that allows you access it without the use of spells or training. 

 

And yes...Scarlet witch is a mutant with a natural hex power access.  She was then not only taught to ACTUAL sorcery and magic, because of her mutant ability to access it naturally, but we learn she was actually altered at birth by the Demon Chthon to become the Scarlet Witch due to her natural mutant ability to tap into the power. 

 

So she's a mutant, who happens to be able to become incredibly powerful as a magical wielder due to her mutation and the interference of other magical beings.   

 

So if the title of this were instead "mystic blast" you'd be in EXACTLY the same situation as you are with Robotics, Devices, Martial Arts, Assault Rifle, Dual Pistols, or street fighting, etc.   You have primary AND secondary powersets, and so having any of the above does not "lock you into" any one specific origin.  You could have a psionic mutant who uses their psychic ability to be a kick ass street fighter.  You could have a bionic technology user who has built in dual pistols and a targeting system, or you could have a natural old human who has found access to a mysterious, hidden stash of devices including a crystal which allows him to unleash mystic waves of energy.   

 

So at most, I'd say the OP can keep the set just as it is, change the name to "mystical blast" and then all the criticism fades away.  That's what I did with the mystic empowerment buff set I made for defenders/controllers/corruptors.  

 

[Arcane Mastery New powerset for Blasters, Defenders, Corruptors and Sentinels]

4 hours ago, KingCeddd03 said:

Is it too much to ask to just make it? @rundragon1

Elemental blast and arcane are two different things. would it be too much to ask to just make it for fun? we need something new 

As you pointed out, we have "devices" but also "necromancy", Dark Miasma which literally references calling souls, etc, Demon summoning, dual pistols, martial arts, and Assault Rifle.  All of those are leaning toward specific origins, though a player could creatively get around it by their explanation of their origin.  Mystic and Arcane are no more "directly" linked to magic than Demon summoning or Assault rifle.  Maybe you're a mutant who taps into mystic energies ala Wanda Maximoff, or maybe you're a scientist who created a device that lets you control mystic universal energies.  If you can have a magic wielding person with an assault rifle and claim that doesn't require a specific origin, you can have a tech based "arcane energy" blaster or a mutant "mystic empowerment" defender.   

 

[Sins of the Devs are visited upon the players]

On 9/15/2022 at 7:00 PM, ivanhedgehog said:

No argument about that. I think most of us have gone a little too far at times. or typed that perfect reply that will really zing...waited with it up for a while and quietly deleted it.

 

And GM Kal is a nice person. probably nicer than we deserve at times.

I still say giving Merc MMs the "Swap Ammo" feature would completely fix Merc's major issues.  It's a super easy fix and would instantly make them a much more enjoyable set. 

[Sins of the Devs are visited upon the players]

6 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I used to play Dungeons & Dragons when I was a young man. Have you ever played it? I still remember one of my favorite modules:

 

 

 

 

So, if you want to farm then farm. I don't care. But please stop with the "but farming is just beating up the bad guys too, hur dur hur duuuuuurp." Farming is not like intended game play. You know it isn't. I know it isn't. Please stop trying to insult my intelligence by making these ridiculous comparisons.

 

 

First, clearly you do care, as evidenced by your posts in this thread.  Secondly...

You DO realize that you're doing the exact same thing, right?  You're constantly replaying the same content, over and over, for 15 years.  
 
Unless you play EVERY SINGLE CONTACT in EVERY SINGLE ZONE before you repeat, you're basically doing the exact same thing.  You're playing the content you enjoy on an endless loop.  Please quit acting like somehow your playstyle is the real one, and others' isn't.  It isn't a very comely look.  

Need I remind you that the Devs created an ENTIRE END GAME that REQUIRES you farming a very small set of content in order to progress to max levels and rewards?  And they offer weekly strike targets that incentivize you to re-run content for extra rewards?  

[Sins of the Devs are visited upon the players]

On 9/6/2022 at 6:51 PM, PeregrineFalcon said:

This is a Super Hero game. Not a farm simulator. Can we all just admit that the primary purpose behind this game is to be a Super Hero and fight bad guys?

 

Now, that being said, I am glad that there are other things to do in CoH other than just beat up bad guys 24/7. But since farming is still the fastest and easiest way to make money in this game it's hard to take any complaints about the devs making farming difficult seriously.

Is farming, like...literally beating up bad guys at a faster rate for better influence or levels? 

 

[Sins of the Devs are visited upon the players]

On 9/2/2022 at 11:12 AM, Astralock said:

 

Prior to Page 2, there was literally no reason to have a Controller on the team.  A Mind Dom or Plant Dom, sure.  A Controller?  No.  Why would they when Blaster's controls were nearly as good, and they do a ton more damage?  I've also literally seen multiple Advanced Difficulty ASF leaders state that Controllers were a "carry" slot only on their respective teams because their controls were considered useless and they didn't do enough damage compared to Blasters and Dominators.

What was asked for was a change that required respecing (or even shelving in the case of plant manip) characters afterward.  You were given one. Whether you think that was a justified change is a secondary issue.

 

 And as someone who has been playing the game non-stop for years I have NEVER not seen plenty of controllers running around the city.  The idea that somehow they were useless is ridiculous. ESPECIALLY on task forces, where blasters controls weren't even close to being able to handle the mob sizes and AVs.  Sure, you have some idiots who might think so, but I promise you the changes made to blasters didn't suddenly make them want controllers, because those teams are likely steamrolling anyway and controllers just don't help with that no matter what.  

On 9/2/2022 at 1:17 PM, Ukase said:

 I'm just a guest here, but if they'd asked me, I'd have told them there were better things to pay attention to. It wasn't broken, so there was no need to fix it.
 

You most certainly aren't, and from my extensive interaction with the Devs, I don't believe they view it that way either. This server is run by a bunch of US who volunteer, and who actually pay the bills to keep it running.  It's a community effort.   The owners of this actual game are long gone.  

 

Your opinion matters exactly as much as anyone else's.   

[Sins of the Devs are visited upon the players]

3 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

 

can you give an example of a recent change which required a complete character re-work or having to materially change how you play 1-50 content?

The changes to blasters a bit back is one that drove me to really start exploring other servers.  They were completely unnecessary changes, IMO.  Interestingly, they were drive by the same weird desire to make control archetypes "more useful" by the Devs that some of issue 4 content was driven by.  It's a flawed approach to an overstated problem, IMO.  But there's one example.   

[Sins of the Devs are visited upon the players]

On 8/31/2022 at 9:33 AM, Luminara said:

 

Change is painful at times.  Not knowing what's coming, not knowing how or if we can adapt, it's unpleasant.  Routine is comfortable, and comforting.  Uncertainty is terrifying.

 

But change is also growth, and routine, that's just another word for stagnation.  Change is necessary.  It makes us sharper, forces us to develop new skills and refine existing ones, and drives us to be more than we were.  It helps us become better, not just as players, but as people.  And that makes it worthwhile, worth enduring, worth adapting.

This, of course, ignores that sometimes, changes are BAD changes coming from a flawed assumption or understanding. 

 

Those changes don't make things better. They make them worse.  

[Focused Feedback: Repeatable Cimerora Incarnate Missions]

20 hours ago, The Caretaker said:

 

 

That's a miss on my part. I'll own that. I thought the DA missions ran at 54 because they were incarnate content. I scaled them up, and now I realize that was a mistake so I will scale them back.

 

On that note though, I see no reason to flatline them to 50. If this in Incarnate content, There should not be an option to run them at 49, level shift-less or powered up. So I will reduce the minimum level to 52, so that a "new" incarnate will still function without a level shift.

 

 

Holdover logic from when these were upscaled from Marcus Valerius. Rarely does a timer cause a mission fail, so I'm going to leave them there.

 

 

What you have to try and see, from a certain point of view, is that the subjective impression left from Live is that "In order to make our content harder, enemies just got more HP, one or two annoying extra powers, and rip apart Defense with enhanced ToHit". It was an unsustainable path forward. We want to give you guys something fun, different, fresh, and engaging without simply wasting your time in a fight (More HP) or undoing the benefits granted from a system (+ToHit to unravel the softcap builds) or badly implemented mechanics that just frustrate (Avoid this, ya Green Stuff 😠 )

 

In order to give the players even a modicum of interesting new mechanics, we first have to change the expectation that all content is explicitly soloable. To make everything soloable means a LOT of very fun, interesting, or otherwise experimental mechanics leveraged against that playstyle are impossible to implement. And before I take my place on the stake to be burned, just understand that:

1. I'm trying my very best to find the line here. I'm already making and have been making changes based on feedback, including the most recent posts above yours.
2. Not every AT can solo. So I'll mention once again that the argument for solo play limits the arguments to "typical" cases of ATs designed for the task. I cannot accommodate a Petless Mastermind's ability to solo, even if that's a hyperbolic statement. Mind/Empathy would also not be a super-fun time solo in Incarnate Content. (and that's not a knock against either build - but rather if you're making it work, then you're far better at the game than most, and your situation is unique.) Then again, a soloplay experience can be completely overrun by a single AT with the right IOs. If I were to design for soloability, I'd have to pick some metric for my baseline, which will automatically exclude some at one end of the spectrum and then cause others at the other end to complain that the game is too easy. HOWEVER, the game is designed as an MMO, and that Mind/Emp inviting a single other person suddenly changes the ENTIRE dynamic. Unless they invite the Petless MM, which could make things in fact even harder than if the Petless MM never came along. The moving parts are really interesting like that.
3. The ITF became a benchmark for a real problem: The way Cimerorans were designed gave average run of the mill Controllers a maybe-shot at being effective with help from their secondaries, while Dominators had a straight-up miserable time in many configurations. So we're looking, aggressively, at trying to design enemies and experiences that have opportunities for everyone to shine, and to bring an acceptable amount of risk. (To date, we designed a few of these things before we had solid data of how they'd be received. Ravenna Conclave's design is inferior to [********* **********] coming in the near future.)
4. The future looks bright, but in City of Lone Wolves we're still balancing the sheets. We need to test, implement, and design engaging content that allows a wide variety of team compositions to have epic experiences against a future world-threatening apocalyptic fight for their lives. We are a City of Heroes (and Villains... and Displaced Bizarro Dystopians), and it needs its heroes to work well solo or as a group. We want to bring sexy back team dynamics back to the forefront and remind people of the incredible interactions and force multiplication shenanigans that come with it.

TL;DR: I'm adding a patch to the pipe that will make the tasks Minimum Level 52, not forced to 54.

I hear what you're saying but I just need to state, on the record, how strongly I disagree with you.  

  

First, I can't name a single archetype I have played in this game (and I've played them all, including some not even available on this server) that I haven't been able to solo with.  Some powersets, sure, but not a single archetype. For you to say some can't solo is just...well...wrong. I'm sorry but it demonstrably is. By the way, I have a few single pet Masterminds I'd LOVE to show you, because, while they aren't the best thing ever, they do damn well and didn't need anything designed specifically for them and their playstyle.   

 

Second, you have to understand that many people solo out of necessity, so you really need to get over this idea that people just do it because it's somehow easier.  When you create content that is by design not really meant to be soloable by the general player, you are intentionally excluding the people who CAN'T reliably team because it doesn't fit their lifestyle.  Your attitude toward "City of Lone Wolves" is dismissive and honestly, I think you're way off base.  

Third, if you feel some archetypes aren't performing as shiny on teams, the answer isn't to suddenly start making enemies and missions specifically tailored to them, especially if it makes others suffer without them.  We all know how annoying it became when you still needed various specific archetypes for Barracuda once the novelty wore off.  It didn't increase the playability for your players, it lowered it (until iPowers made that issue obsolete).   

 

Instead, a much better approach is what was done with Defenders.  Change them to better help a team AND better solo.  This is still the approach I wish you all had taken with tankers instead of just making them AoE brutes 2.0.   This actually would increase the amount of people willing to play them because suddenly they CAN solo and yet, when they team, they can still contribute. There are a ton of ways to do this that I think are relatively easy if you ever want to discuss it. Especially for Controllers, Dominators, and Masterminds.  

 

No one here is saying that you should design content that every POWERSET COMBO on every archetype can solo.  But like the changes to defense, you all seem to be taking some pretty big right turns that are moving the game in a direction that appears to be penalizing a lot of players, for reasons that I think boil down to a playstyle you're pushing that is both out of date with most modern games AND one CoH had and moved away from for very good reasons. 

 

You will drive people to other servers, or to just finally walk away from a 15+ year old game.  Tread carefully.

 

[Focused Feedback: Repeatable Cimerora Incarnate Missions]

On 8/2/2022 at 7:49 AM, The Caretaker said:

 

Definitely don't want to be misinterpreted here, so know I mean this with a smile - this group is hard to solo and that's OK - its another step towards preparing players for target prioritization, situational awareness, and team composition. As for their CC, one of the goals with Hard Mode ITF was that Cimerorans were nigh-impervious to control and making control archetypes have a purpose was very high on the list. This change to Cimerorans trickled back to regular enemies as well, if I'm not mistaken, to make control useful even in the regular ITF. Try bringing a controller or dominator along and see if there's an appreciable difference.

  

 

 

Can you elaborate on the "team composition" idea here?

 

Are the devs moving in a direction where we return to needing (or at least desiring) specific types of team makeups to run future content casually? 

 

That would suddenly make a LOT of the changes being proposed make more sense.  It would also concern me greatly.   As does the comment that "all content is team content".  That is not and never has been the design of CoH.  As was pointed out, SOME content was designed specifically as team content, and if all content were expected to be team content, that would not have been necessary.  CoH has always allowed soloing by default, save very clearly defined exceptions, and always should. 
 
Also, +1 to the "restricting it to level 54" is a bad move.  It's actually wasting resources, putting all of this effort into testing and developing the content just to have a very small percentage of the player characters have access to it.  Not even just incarnates, but T4 incarnates.   If this game were being developed at a pace that could do that and develop much more, it would make more sense. But it isn't.   So I'll ask...what is the perceived BENEFIT of restricting it to 54s, that outweighs the advantages of having another way for non-fully incarnated toons to progress toward their incarnate powers, and have a larger pool of players enjoy it?  Maybe there is some that we just haven't though of but you have.

 

It seems weird that at the same time we're trying to get people out of the AE to get their incarnate powers we're limiting content that they could use to get them outside of AE.  I can tell you that if this drops with content restricted to t4 incarnates, you'll be motivating more people to do the AE shortcut to get there just so they can run it and see what it's like, since many are starved for new content.  

 

*shrug*

[The Pretty Good AE Debate]

14 minutes ago, Shadeknight said:

A badge for participating in testing? Eh. That'd cause its own uproar I feel.

There's no real inner circle from my view. It's devs and then the rest of us. There's a wide swathe of testers, and it's just a matter of either perfecting (or nearly perfecting) the idea or walking it back to the drawing board. Obviously, some ideas get scrapped or attacked from a new angle entirely. The whole inner circle stuff screams "EVERYONE IS OUT TO GET ME!" level of wild. Sure, some people have maybe built up a rapport with the devs but it's not like there's some super secret cabal influencing where HC goes. 

 

Polls, to me, are one of the worst ideas. I just do not see any good in allowing a community to drive a private server that much. I think using them to gauge opinions is fine, but full blown "where should we put our resources." is not what should be done for a volunteer team. If we were paying them I might agree, but we don't. Now, weighing community voices vs dev's goals? Sure, that works.

A roadmap isn't...the greatest idea because there's things that get scrapped all the time. Prior pages had some stuff scrapped and even this one had a Major Change walked back. It's not really something they should commit to if some ideas get pushed back or need more time on the drawing board. Otherwise, an idea might not work out entirely no matter how its approached.

These aren't inherently bad ideas, but they just would not work in this environment in my opinion.

EDIT towards Arcane; There's a few people vocal about nuking the AE, but people tend to forget how split down the middle this whole debate/debacle is.

The badge is for participating in the poll not testing. 

  

As for "no secret cabal influencing where HC goes...I mean technically  the Devs ARE a secret cabal.  We dont have elections to those positions.   But again, that's just how things work.   

 

As for the polling...I don't understand.  These volunteers are trying to make the server as positive and successful as they can.  How would the community having a clear say in what they think that would entail be a BAD thing?  Remember that things don't come to testing until a TON of work has already gone into them.   At that point a Dev has committed to it, and its HARD mentally and emotionally to change course.   It would make MUCH more sense if they had a roadmap that the player base had input on so they knew that at the very least, the direction they headed when they bring it to testing is one people are expecting and generally support. 

I work in education. I have for 20 years.  Ive worked for administrators who get things in their own head, work to come up with directions on things to "make the institution better" and then spring it on the staff to hammer out after the fact, only to find their entire approach or direction was either flawed, unneeded, or would actually make the staff and students LESS happy.    I've also worked with administrators who instead ask the staff and students and families AHEAD of time what the issues are, where they'd like to see change etc and then build plans based on that.  And I can say that in my anecdotal experience, that is ALWAYS more successful both in creation AND in outcomes.