Naraka

lol Poison Defender slapping their **** on the table. I'd say, if you're in a group that's mostly self-sufficient like a Tanker + Scrapper, keeping your own self-sufficiency in mind would be smart. Dialing the debuffs back to Corruptor or Controller/Mastermind would make you able to hold your own. But if you're going full support with any buffs to boost your team too...I guess it's up to you.

You have a bad habit of making strawman arguments. The "foolish outlook" part was in regards to the "This is a distinction without a difference" statement. I'm not talking about balancing anything, I'm talking about making powers distinct not by just what powerset it's in but who's using it. You just chose to divorce my whole post from talking about the differences between certain powers across ATs to some ridiculous tangent you made up because you need to save face. Not that I actually care, but since you seem to love nitpicking, I'll show you how to do it correctly. No, 100% of Bio Armor characters have a taunt and a damage aura. Stalkers and Sents exist. Also you have to actually select both the taunt and damage aura on a character to *have* them and since Genetic Contamination is at earliest a level 22 skill, leveling Bios won't have it until then. And don't think you get off by using a "~", if 2/5 of the Bio users don't have a taunt and damage aura, that isn't anywhere near 100%. That's easy. Scrappers were designed to be less capable tanks than Brute and Tankers. Just like their regular attacks don't taunt, neither do their damage auras. It *IS* a design principle. I never made any argument about an absence of taunt on Scrappers therefore we are not in agreement unless you're attempting to concede your argument against what I initially said. Try again. Are you sure about that?

I appreciate you backing my point. Although the prospect that the taunt portion is autohit escapes me, I never said the damage taunts. I will quote myself *again* because in all your years of playing CoH, you don't see to want to read: "Scrappers give up a slight ST advantage to get higher overall DPS via AoE and strong ST with crits but it doesn't get taunt in its damage auras + it has less defensiveness to be able to stick around in hoards of enemies to do the AoEs." "I know that Scrappers have buff/debuff auras that have a taunt element...that's why my initial post specifically said "damage auras". The post was describing the differences between the ATs' sets, i.e. why Tankers get some extra range on their AoEs." "They are. I literally just described the distinguishing factors between them." "They designed it so that Scrapper's aptitude for aggro is less than either Brute or Tanker. It's reflected in lack of punchvoke, weaker taunt in buff/debuff auras, single target Confront vs AoE Taunt and no taunt in damage auras." "It's just a fact, just like it's a fact that Scrapper damage auras just do more base damage. Exceptions can also exist while a fact is true, like damage auras cannot crit, the exception is Quills but that doesn't alter the fact that damage auras aren't designed to crit...or taunt for Scrappers." Couple that with your post just now that "Brute/tank damage auras also require a tohit check for the damage component. The taunt component is autohit", that's literally describing what my original post said as I re-quoted for you because you can't read. So not only do Tanker get taunt in their damage auras while Scrappers do not, but apparently the taunt is also auto-hit. As for laser focusing on the ToHit part, I mostly brought that up to indicate damage (the first part of the damage aura), not specifically that damage taunts. We all know that powers in CoH are compartmentalized for the individual effects, so for a power to taunt, it has to have taunt in the power, same for if it buffs the user, it has to have that component in the power or if it interacts with an inherent ability, it has to have the inherent ability *IN* the power. The statement said "damage auras for Scrappers don't taunt" because the devs designed it not to and that is the literal statement I made AND outlined BECAUSE I'm pointing to the DIFFERENCES that were DESIGNED into the powers. Do you honestly think you're going to swat your ruler on the white-board of how many raids you've done and that matters? The only reason I mentioned having the discussion about Gauntlet Changes in the past is because it's actually relevant to the discussion.

FYI, the main reason I even responded to the OP is because it brought back memories of long debates about needed differences between the melee ATs. While I was making the argument (back then before the new Gauntlet changes) to help Tankers, all these aspects (range, number of targets, survivability, ST and AoE DPS, role, power fantasy, etc etc) were all things I argued and compared and explained many many times while debating the other suggested changes. Basically, I've had these statements and points already. I'm not uninformed about stuff like Bio has a damage aura *and* a taunt aura or that Quills is a melee set. So far, you're not really informing me of anything I don't already know. If I said something incorrect, I don't mind being corrected, but if all this is some torrid attempt at one-upsmanship, just say so so I don't have to reply to this thread again. That, or at least point to something I actually got wrong so that I can at least get that clarified and move on.

That's a foolish outlook. Especially considering many powers cross ATs outside of powersets. But go ahead and save face. Quote what I said that was wrong. I'll wait. Also, no one was making the statement that tanks get taunt and not confront. Agreed with who? I repeat, quote where I'm misrepresenting how something was designed. No, you decided to correct something that I didn't say and I was correcting you of what I *actually* said and the intent and context of what I said. I don't really mind you adding more information or context to the discussion, but I'd appreciate you not putting words in my mouth or attributing things to what I said or meant when I in fact did not. There's a term for that, I believe it's called a Strawman. I just double checked; no where in my initial post did I say "armor set" or even "sets" at all. I only spoke of damage auras in the context that they aren't aggro tools for Scrappers. Perhaps you still don't really grasp why I brought up damage auras in the first place? To describe it again, the basic function of them is just free damage that doesn't require a cast time that constantly ticks while you use other attacks. Since the topic revolves around AoE radius of attacks, damage auras are effectively attacks in that regards and a good way to deal max damage with AoEs is some means of control to pull them in and keep them in (i.e. taunt). While my original post did talk about survivability in the context of staying inside a crowd of foes, the focus was on saturating AoEs as a boon for Tankers (because their AoEs are slightly bigger). 1. I know, but Quills functions as a damage aura. 2. Reading comprehension. Damage powers require a ToHit check, which damage auras are damaging powers, thus they don't voke naturally.

You keep saying "Besides Bio". Did I miss some change? Genetic Contamination is the toxic PBAoE damage aura and it does not have taunt in it for Scrapper. Evolving Armor does have a taunt but it does no damage. Parasitic Aura is a unique power compared to other sets and as far as I recall, it doesn't taunt for any AT. Bio falls within the same conventions for damage auras. I'm not even sure why any of you are so laser focused on that particular statement. It's just a fact, just like it's a fact that Scrapper damage auras just do more base damage. Exceptions can also exist while a fact is true, like damage auras cannot crit, the exception is Quills but that doesn't alter the fact that damage auras aren't designed to crit...or taunt for Scrappers. Ultimately, highlighting the differences of these similar sets across ATs goes hand-in-hand with why Tankers' sets get a boost in AoE range for some attacks, because they are designed to be different for the ATs that use them. I said buff/debuff auras. Even if I failed to put both in some of my sentences, it behooves you to not nitpick and give posters the benefit of the doubt, especially if they're repeating themselves. There could be various design reasons why the buff/debuff auras that Scrapper has gets taunt in them. The overarching convention, however, is if it requires a ToHit check, it probably won't voke for Scrapper. This isn't the case for Tankers and Brutes. I'd agree, it helps the non-damage auras do their jobs to scale with enemies, but I'm personally not making the point of why Scrappers get taunt in those, I'm moreso talking about why they don't get them in damage auras.

It's not a coincidence, it's by design. They designed it so that Scrapper's aptitude for aggro is less than either Brute or Tanker. It's reflected in lack of punchvoke, weaker taunt in buff/debuff auras, single target Confront vs AoE Taunt and no taunt in damage auras. The reason I even mentioned taunt in damage auras is primarily for the stickiness of the effect so you can capitalize on those AoEs. In solo play, it's not as big of a deal, but in team play, this can make it harder to fully saturate AoEs in various team set-ups, which is the crux of the point: aggro-hogs can get better use of certain AoEs and Tanker gets range on said AoEs. Some might call that "synergy". It's a synergistic buff to Tanker damage that doesn't step on the toes of other melee AT's niche.

They are. I literally just described the distinguishing factors between them.

I know that Scrappers have buff/debuff auras that have a taunt element...that's why my initial post specifically said "damage auras". The post was describing the differences between the ATs' sets, i.e. why Tankers get some extra range on their AoEs.

Are those taunt auras also damage auras?

Ah man, I remember discussing buffs for Tankers to make them relevant way before the gauntlet changes. The reason I suggested giving Tankers bigger AoEs was so they could skip picking up taunt (if they wanted to) and just use their AoEs as well as giving them the benefit of not needing to reposition once they got that aggro. It's an indirect damage buff to AoEs *IF* you hit more foes. Another point I outlined is it's a scale of AoE to ST effectiveness. It goes Tanker >> Brute >> Scrapper >> Stalker. Stalkers often get the short end of the stick by outright lacking AoEs in their offensive and defensive pools but they get a boost in ST damage thanks to the effectiveness of Assassin's Strike + Assassin's Focus. Scrappers give up a slight ST advantage to get higher overall DPS via AoE and strong ST with crits but it doesn't get taunt in its damage auras + it has less defensiveness to be able to stick around in hoards of enemies to do the AoEs. Brutes are next, putting conditions on their peak damage and giving them high caps + taunt meaning they can stick around in hoards easier and get benefit for more damage but the build-up and drop off of fury when you're only dealing with 1 foe means the ramp up will always hinder burst. Finally, Tanker has the lowest damage, both ST and AoE, but they gain a simple advantage with slightly higher AoE DPS and ease of attracting and staying in crowds. Once those crowds are gone and you're dealing with a single strong foe, you've only got the -res and defense. Ultimately, the buff was multifaceted, but I always argued it was to help differentiate each melee AT's melee powerset. Stalker's sets vary and have their strengths and weaknesses but that's what makes Stalker fun. Same with all the other AT's sets. Embrace those differences and select which you want to use with those differences in mind.

Complaining about LotG is like complaining about soft-capped defense. It's all old news. Players gonna min/max, even if it makes the game play the same. No point in fixating on what others do. Imposing challenges or limitations on yourself is another option over just aiming to max out the notoriety of the missions.

That's pretty much covered in the 1st paragraph of the OP. It's mostly for challenge and personal enjoyment. After building your 327th def capped character, a nice dose of variety is often the only thing that keeps the game interesting.

You could also do a sapper using Ice or Electric armor and Mu and focus on draining END bars instead of HP. Make it a game to sap their endurance before the team can finish them off. With the melee, you can kinda pick whatever like picking up psi or ice to hinder foe rech more, stone, mace or SS if you want to control, etc.

I would have said Kinetic Melee/Fiery. We all know the racecar noises from Kinetic Melee would be perfect.