Naraka
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Posts posted by Naraka
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On 7/18/2021 at 12:25 PM, SwitchFade said:
I guess some people are truly irked by any reduction in cluster-smashing. I couldn't care less what an energy blaster knocks about, it's neat to see. I can taunt, hop, blast, hold, teleport, or pull any knocked back MOB at will.
Barring peace bringer super stomp, KB in this game is fine. What ,exactly, is so terrible about it?
I have yet, since issue 3, encountered any real discontent with it. Rare, and I do mean rare, comments from a single person, perhaps once a year. So you're scrapping a boss that gets KBd? Hop over. So you're tanking foes that get KBd? Taunt em, hop and attack. So you're blasting foes that get KBd? Yeah, so? Blast more. So, you're controlling foes that get KBd? So? They're still under your thumb.
So your zergfest clear time slows down? Ah, now we see. I see no reason to meta-change a core apart of the game for the few reasons I see proffered, in all the time I have seen them. I'd welcome a restatement of factual reasons why KB is so terribly DooOOooOoommmMMmm. So we can discuss and I can argue counterpoint, refuting them.
Which is why I'll say again, KB is fine as is, no change vote.
The funny thing is, I understand why people get flustered about some KB and how it can hinder some battle strategies... But like you said, it hardly causes and stress beyond needing to use a couple of more clicks. In a game where players frequently complain that enemies die too fast and some people can't use their powers before slapping corpses, needing to use some more clicks is hardly an issue.
As much as I complain about power creep and the meta, I don't really want to remove it (although talking about removing it is entertainment for the whole family) but at the same time, you can't deny the meta is destructive and harms the game. Even a smoker knows their smoking habit has it's negative repercussions.
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14 hours ago, Bastille Boy said:
I have a meta-suggestion: I think it would be good for the devs to make their intentions concerning the proc system clear. There have been rumors about changes to proc mechanics for over a year. Is a major overhaul in the works? Or is the community reading too much into a few stray comments one of the devs has made?
I built two "proc monster" characters in 2020. I've avoided investing in more "proc monster" characters since last summer for fear that the nerf bat would soon be swung. I've thus avoided powersets that require procs to solo tolerably, by my standards (e.g. Electric Control). I play all my characters both solo and on teams.
I doubt I'm the only player who's anxious about these rumors and making speculative decisions based on them. I'd be grateful if the devs would either confirm these rumors or put them to bed.
I'm the opposite. I played my TW scrapper up to max before they changed it specifically because I wanted to experience it before it got changed. Same with Energy melee before it got buffed.
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2 hours ago, skoryy said:
So now the Controller is losing damage to Earth Control, unless they've slotted those for procs, but then how are those hitting and wait a second. APP end mods are nice, but they're not covering not having end mod enhancements, and chaining insps to keep your blue bar filled is some advanced high end macro button stuff that most players won't bother with.
If you're gonna go through all that silliness just to keep up in DPS, why not, y'know, just roll a blaster?
Oh darn, you're right!!
If only you could, you know...combine some or all of those options somehow...hmmm...
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47 minutes ago, skoryy said:
Accuracy: 55%? I guess Kismet and Tactics would give you some boost but...
Added: That's some spicy end usage as well and Trick Arrow doesn't come with an end mod booster. And you're probably going to avoid Carnies like a sewage plant regardless.
Basically, all that damage is coming at a cost just so you can keep up with a blaster.
Do I need to repost the meme I made? There are way too many options to cover Accuracy and Endurance usage. That Controller merely has to pair with Earth Control and the Acc problem is resolved. Slot out your Stamina and Health with uniques, pick up powers in epics that grant +End/recover, inspirations or merely use the remaining slots for END management/accuracy instead of recharge. If teamed, there's a high chance some sort of +recovery will be in play and if not, It's a simple tactic to fall back on other duties to conserve END.
Basically, there are far too many tools to overcome such costs to really be trying to pretend like it's a barrier to entry.
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Completely off topic:
Would a Lion Tamer boss mob added to the Carnie faction be off base? Psychicly controlled animals was actually a carnie concept character I created back on live and she was part of a trope that focused on animal telethapy coupled with mad labs running mutant gene manipulation on animals and you get a kind of PETA faction going around freeing mutant power creatures and then controlling them mentally.
My character went a step further though and ended up charming demons with her mask but overall, just a bit of a tangent...
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6 hours ago, Llewellyn Blackwell said:
I will just point out this thread and attitudes in it have had an impact, they have made me choose to remove all utility and support aspects from all of my builds. From now on even my support ATs will be played and built entirely with solo play in mind, and even when teaming will basically just treat every other team member in pugs as no more or less then my summoned pets.
If this was the kind of social change the OP and those who support trying to push Defenders and trollers back into a box of stay in the back shut up and support had been hoping to have, than mission accomplished. If your goal was to see more people offering support to others via build choices rather than focus on their own immediate needs for leveling and enjoying their own game play loop in their way, than I would have to say you have failed greatly at least where I am concerned.
Sometimes folks can be their own worst enemy, and trust me on this as I know that lesson well from personal experience.
Well since you specifically mentioned me, I'll ask you: what did Defenders and Controllers do before IOs or PPMs? Did they never do damage? Were Fire/kinetic controllers just flashy and that's why they were popular? Or how about just the era before PPM when procs had a base % chance, how did builds and procs fit together then?
I think you're way off base assuming offensive built support ATs is only now a thing thanks to procs. Maybe you are a new-ish player but maybe also you aren't and you just have forgotten where you came from. At the end of the day, I've attempted to adapt to the overall meta and keep a more based playstyle and I like all sorts of build strategies but at the same time, experiencing the game's power-coster shenanigans as it progresses cements why it should be considered carefully to buff things. Players forget where they came from and they feel entitled to power. They won't even consider an alternate timeline where a nerf would happen. Rather than entertaining a hypothetical change, they throw up their defensive-copium armor and lose sight of why people like to discuss ideas and see only attacks against their precious builds.
BTW, I'm not trying to take away your proc builds, I'd more like to expand on how you could make them. Also, I find it a bit narcissistic to assume another's success or failure upon your own personal conclusion. If you never decided to attempt to build an offensive Defender or Controller until today, that is your own failed creativity. Players have been doing that for years.
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On 7/17/2021 at 3:49 AM, nihilii said:
It is a little strange some arguments against procs are along the line of "but if I slot just this one power with procs then it becomes really good and I still have enough powers to make my bulid awesome with set bonuses".
Like... yes? Do you want procs to suck so universally there's never ever a rational reason to deviate from slotting full IO sets in everything?
And now that I write it out, I'm wondering if this is actually motivation for some people. Much like I've always struggled to understand "badge hunters" who gripped about some badges being a real challenge, perhaps there is an aspect of build making to some that is akin to collectionables, and 6 IOs of the same set are more satisfying psychologically than frankenslotting with procs?
Needless to say, while I could understand their perspective, I'd have to disagree with changing the game to fit that.
It's funny the discussion has now evolved to general overpoweredness. Because... I play Tankers these days. A lot. And my Tankers... die! A lot. Because I build them as proc monsters, and while this gives them fantastic damage, and their innate survivability still make them sturdy, they ARE softer than defensively-built characters filled with set bonuses. Tankers are overpowered, for sure. And yet my new baby Bio/Stone Tanker on full Incarnates dies much more often than my old(er) school MA/Shield Scrapper on just Alpha.
Maybe I *will* get on the Brutal Justice train to nerf defense to 40%, after all... Let's think about it. If some people slot some procs and softcapped defense and feel procs are OP, and if I slot all procs and no softcapped defense and feel I die a lot, doesn't that imply it's softcapped defense and not procs, that is truly OP? 😉 It's just that flooring enemy tohit has been taken for granted for so long, hardly anybody even thinks about it anymore.
Yet as far as the I6 rework of defense or whenever that came, defense started being silly good as the ability to reliably dodge most damage *coupled with* avoiding debuffs AND mezzes, just about any ill effect... cemented defense as the prime form of mitigation, especially with DDR or buffer values. Resist and regen folds like paper in comparison as they meet cascading failure just about anywhere, and the only reason the problem isn't as bad as it could be is thanks to the overpoweredness of luck insps themselves at +12.5% a pop, abundance of team defense buffs, +defense set bonuses.
I'm being half tongue in cheek playing devil's advocate here. But only half! NERF DEFENSE! Destroy my builds (because, yes, the reason I die "a lot" and not "ALL THE TIME" on proc builds is because I abuse luck insps too...)! Bring on the Apocalypse!
From my personal viewpoint with regards to procs, I have no qualms with proc builds and proc bombs. That, in and of itself, isn't the problem but rather the culminating stacking nature...and that can go for a lot of things in the game, from defense to stacking buffs, etc. You stack enough defenders on something and you break the game. You stack enough defense and you can wade through a lot more than if you stack resistance. I'm merely pointing out the observation that, stacking is the issue and to help alleviate that *without* straight up nerfing every proc, you merely strike at the stackable nature...which is why I proposed changing some procs into flat % based instead of all being PPM. At least then, you could have a decent lot putting that flat % proc in a damage/debuff/control aura, for example, and having it have a decent chance of proc'ing with the caveat being you're also not going to have 4+ choices of % procs to stack in said powers and you're not always going to have 5+ procs to slot in your PPM based powers.
As for the Tanker part of it, without bringing into the point of difficulty settings, it's hard to judge. If your Tanker is less durable with a proc build than with an IO bonus build, that means you've chosen offense over defense so you should lower your difficulty down a notch. If you can survive just as well at +3 as the IO bonus build at +4 but defeat things very noticeably faster, how much worse are you really?
17 hours ago, Luminara said:Ignoring imbalances doesn't make creep less of a problem. There is a lack of parity between how Resistance and Defense function with debuffs in play, as you noted, and that disparity should be dealt with in order to properly moderate creep. Nerfing Defense won't change that, unless you nerf it drastically (or add new mechanics which allow debuffs to bypass Defense), to the point of gutting entire power sets, such as Energy Aura and Super Reflexes. Defense will always be superior in that regard unless and until Resistance offers comparable mitigation. By addressing that imbalance, setting a baseline across the board, we can find a fairer and more reasonable solution to creep than crudely hammering things until they conform.
Why not give defense sets decreased resistances to debuffs then, outside of defense debuffs of course?
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3 minutes ago, Super Atom said:
It does though? It literally gets you killed when misused in lower levels if you are playing on a non-baby difficulty (which was my entire point)
So can a misused AoE (that doesn't have KB).
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1 minute ago, Super Atom said:
You started the conversation about low levels, I brought up things about low levels in response. Using strawman arguments like "lots of things get you killed not just KB" only makes you look more wrong btw
That's me trying to compromise a point. Saying KB gets you killed is just dumb, tho.
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5 minutes ago, Super Atom said:
So do you just get off on lying or
Did you say you weren't replying to me anymore.
I'll correct myself: you can thank Super Atom for directing the discussion to that tangent. Me mentioning that mitigation in the low levels may have sparked you to create the narrative that KB in the low levels gets you killed (I disagree...a lot of things can get you killed, not just KB but we're not going to remove those things). I only mentioned it because it's true, mitigation in the low levels can be on a premium and KB is mitigation.
It's interesting you decided to do what you accuse me of though. Very not-hypocritical of you lol
3 minutes ago, Koopak said:First. I got that and I didnt hate it on its face, I peraonally think the IO is fine as is. In theory we are on the same side I just cant stand your "way of arguing" its rude, dismissive, and completely unhelpful to the conversation.
Second. If you followed Sunsette and Super Atom's conversation to this point youd see their issues are predominantly with Energy Blast and those issues are justified, and while your suggestion MIGHT help, it wont make a real difference, so their disagreement is reasonable.
Lastly. You KEEP making false equialance arguments that wanting a better solution so an entire powerset is not forced to choose between optimal slottingin its ST attacks or not shoving an enemy out of range with any and all possible attack chains is the same as power creep demands for more damage. Wanting your powerset to keep pace with the others is not unreasonable, seriously. And youve been in the threads on Regen with me, you have seen me argue vehemently that the widely considered underpowered armor is not and doesnt need huge raw buffs even though mained the set since day one of this game. So I hope that lends some credence to my argument that wanting EB to suck a little less is a reasonable desire.
Firstly, I'm not even being that rude. The only reason 2 people here are snapping is because they seemingly have no tolerance for snark. Believe me, if I were being rude, I'd be moderated into oblivion like always. Even still it wouldn't warrant some of the replies I've received. At most, I have no issues with a heated discussion. And the only real dismissive points come from lack of acknowledgement of how the game's balance has been kept thus far.
The second and third part really do fall in line with what I'm talking about in the first in that, you say this isn't about power creep or asking for more damage...but you are. I know I've heard people put up that suggestion here too (just give Energy Blast a bump in damage) which is at least honest. Saying Energy Blast falls behind other sets I just do not agree with. Saying that the IO is a tax to catch up to other sets, I disagree with because if you value mitigating scatter for DPS, you are getting your value's worth and I do not feel you deserve more than maybe whatever the slot could get you in enhancements ontop of that. No more, no less.
Outside of that, rebalancing the set (and likely other sets), I'm mainly silent on because that is just an issue for another thread but I'd likely lean on wanting to keep damage buffs to a minimum, not dish them out because some people feel their favorite powerset is unfairly hindered.
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13 minutes ago, Koopak said:
Naraka who are you even talking to anymore? I feel like you are projecting ALOT of pent up frustration with the 'meta people' onto something just... Not even related.
The fact is energy blast is uniquely overloaded with KB and that KB as a mechanic is inconsistent due to how the games animations work. The set does not have any other benefits and Sunsette and Super Atom are highlighting that compared to other sets this is a performance issue, one made even worse by the negative side of KB being only mitigatable by an IO that deprives them of optimal slotting further pushing the set behind.
None of this thread is even related to low level content as IOs are not commonly slotted in low level characters. Even if they were I dont think its mad for people who love a set that underperforms to want to see improvement.
I outright oppose the OPs proposition, but thats because EBs issue SHOULD be resolved by a balance pass, not an enhancement change, and I believe @Sunsette and @Super Atom agree but really just want an improvement, any improvement, to their issue wbich is REASONABLE
I guess I'll reiterate my first point: Add enhancement values to the KB>KD IO (specifically Sudden Acceleration) and you solve that issue. Then, at worse, you don't get all the set bonuses if you decide to put in other sets but that is a choice.
[EDIT]The funny thing is, I didn't know Overwhelming Force was a unique until corrected on it....because I've never bothered using it. I still have a Peacebringer, FF/Energy, Energy/Plant and Grav/Energy but some would have you believe they cannot function without those IOs. So take that context into account as well.
As for low level content, I was not the one to bring up low level content. You can thank Super Atom for that tangent.
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1 minute ago, Sunsette said:
How is it not repeatedly when Power Push on Sentinels (and Doms, but they can mitigate this) is rotational?
Honestly, you might be trying to be open minded here, but I actually get along much better with most of the people who are hard disagreeing? I'm not sure what you think being close-minded looks like. I have more common ground with people who play the same powersets and have different views than this interaction has been.
I've actually already acknowledged team mitigation repeatedly in the form of immobs (half of which remove all of the KB mitigation entirely and yet are still often preferable) and tanking, so please don't tell me I'm disregarding those; this is just an issue that extends both to team and solo play.
Did I say someone is close-minded?
As far as Power Push....I guess I could rehash them: you got hover, you got wall, you got juggle, you got immobilize, you got tp, you got pull, you got IOs, you got other powersets, etc.
And the reason I said you were going to disregard various mitigation points is because you used the word "repeatedly". Maybe you just meant "at a higher frequency" but the way I read it, it was wait 2 seconds after every blast, which I feel is an exaggeration.
But I see a lot of exaggerating here primarily because, having played this game for so long, it's only gotten easier and I don't mean with just experience...I'm talking about everything. It basically gets to the point people are seemingly framing KB as the killer of noobs and DPS when, in reality, there are no DPS checks in this game and half the time, you can't die regardless of how many mistakes you make and even if you do, you can get right back up yourself...but somehow I'm to assume KB is so detrimental, we need to sacrifice what semblance of the early-to-mid game is left to appease the insatiable thirst for more DPS?
*MAYBE* add a 40+ Alpha slot that enhances damage and morphs all KB to KD but leave the early game alone.
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1 minute ago, Super Atom said:
This is the last reply you get and I'm not gonna be nice even if GM's keep telling me to be.
You called me a liar by saying the scenario is false, because apparently in your mind a low level team dealing with KB in a +2 TF couldn't possibly be killed. Spoilers bud, they can and do. If you don't grasp the concept of how knocking enemies all around can cause actual mitigation issues (the tank holding aggro and control patches/healing) and DPS issues (nobody properly using their AOE) then you must exclusively play on +0-1.
KB is not "good" mitigation. It's minor mitigation that can be effective if used on bosses (ST) early game. Knocking enemies away from melee and AoE is a direct DPS loss especially when it isn't needed. "Support" on a whole is already struggling in CoH due to power creep so at end game KB is actually a huge negative and is bad. Early game it can have its use but overall the misuse is bad and makes KB viewed poorly. Your narrative that you're pushing that KB is some magical form of support mitigation and damage increases is not only false, it's intentionally misleading and at worst a sad attempt at elitism by suggesting everyone else is just using it wrong, what's the saying? "Am i out of touch, no it's all the kids who are wrong."
I guess I'm supposed to take the "plays on +0-1" as an insult?
I play plenty of low level TFs and, like I said, what you're describing is *actual* fodder/standard fare and *at worst* it might cause slower kill speeds. People can and do die even without KB present so attributing these aspects to KB is just more fabrication of scenarios to highlight your narrative.
Please, don't reply back to me. The wicked talons of the meta have dug so deep into you, you'd only end up hurting yourself trying.
Just now, Sunsette said:Naraka, whether or not you're trying to, you're being consistently belittling in your responses. I'm taking the time to explain my points; I'd appreciate it if you didn't simply assert the opposite is true or that a point is moot or fabricated.
If you're in a situation where you actually need consistent mitigation or damage, yeah, wasting 2 seconds repeatedly is not an effective use of mitigation or damage, since that's also the time period that you've taken the enemy out. That's barely a net positive if you have teammates still up and can be a hard net negative if you're solo. Power Push being part of the Sentinel's main rotation means that it's poor mitigation and poor damage without the IO; the entire point of my response is to show that the design is poor and doesn't function intuitively without the KB to KD IO, which fits the general understanding of a build tax in game design. This goes double for the Nova response.
Taking Fold Space just to mitigate the usage of Nova is three powers and doesn't fit into most builds very well imx on Blaster, Sentinel, or Defender. Neat idea, didn't love the execution.
Well it wouldn't be wasting 2 seconds repeatedly, only occasionally unless you intentionally were trying to test how KB can absolutely extend a fight. Outside of the many (*beat the dead horse*) means of controlling KB for gain, you also have other team-oriented solutions that you're not going to acknowledge purely to assert your point.
At the end of the day, you're the one trying to convince players like me of your position. If you can't even convince someone who's trying to actually compromise with you and understand your arguments, I don't feel you'll get far with others. From the beginning, I would agree to mitigating as much of the drawback of the IOs but beyond that, you'd be asking for even more freebies just to bust the rest of the game....the part that actually is still decent.
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6 minutes ago, Sunsette said:
I want *consistency* and I want *choice*.
And you have it!
6 minutes ago, Sunsette said:Power Push on Sentinels is pushing an enemy out of your own short reach, forcing you to do movement or use Aim for a range boost, both of which are times you're not doing anything else.
Good lordy, you wasted 2.2 seconds!? The end is near!
6 minutes ago, Sunsette said:with a tank, if you don't either finish them or have some way to keep the scatter, the tank is going to be more upset with you than pleased short of a very well-timed wipe prevention, which I think I've seen like... once.
I could have somewhat been in agreement here as that could be somewhat inconvenient even if you controlled it....but we have the KB>KD IOs and a wide range Wormhole-like power available in pools for anyone to use so...
6 minutes ago, Super Atom said:See now you're just being rude because someone disagrees with you, that's where conversation breaks down. It's one thing to go "eh maybe you're adding on" it's entirely another to call it a lie or someone a liar. You also completely misused what i said to argue a point i did not make. ST "not being great" early game is a fact, you don't get your strong ST attacks until later. AoE is king of CoH end game meta it's all about how good your AoE is while ST is still important, having good AoE is more important (again see EM changes). Though since you were rude, I've lost most interest in talking to you.
I'm not being rude, I'm being pedantic because you're mostly just presenting exaggerated scenarios and playing off as if the game is so tight and structured that anything outside of your scope of performance is an actual detriment.
No one called you a liar, I said your scenario is fabricated. It's not like you named names or outlined a specific scenario. You just said x person could do y and z can happen. And I disagree with people for a living. Persuading someone to even listen to you in the first place requires you to understand them and get them to express their views frankly after which exposing their weak arguments is easier.
AoE is king is exactly why a KB>KD toggle shouldn't exist and why the IO itself was a mistake. Not having meta-level ST DPS in the early game does not support your narrative that KB is harmful as mitigation in the early game, wherever you can get it, is helpful and in cases where it's not needed, the likelyhood it will do the opposite and become harmful requires making up a scenario.
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Just now, Super Atom said:
Oh ho i wouldn't be throwing around the exaggeration claim, that's the primary defense tactic of people who hype up KB ever being used to save people.
Most people don't have great ST early game, be it the powers or slotting but ST is usually not great overall and neither is AOE but AOE is stronger than ST in current coh, even early AOE. I do a lot of TF's and I've seen early level people knock stuff around and because everyone spaces out aggro slips and often support can't aoe heal everyone and it falls apart quick (see posi part 1). Just as I've seen people knock enemies back into AoE's. It happens on both areas, idk why you'd claim it doesn't that's just not true.
You're not really making your point though. What is "great ST"? What metric is used to decide if you reach that benchmark? Because, AFAIK, focus firing on a hard target is the easiest way to take down STs and if you have a team, everyone will have a ST attack to use.
And ST is not great...that's just false. Otherwise, I'd be seeing people making DPS rotations using AoEs. By the teens, you're looking at having *at least* ONE staple ST attacks whether that's Blazing Arrow, Gambler's Cut, Smite, Suppressive Fire, etc. Having 2 or 3 team members with similarly decent ST attacks will get you through a lot. And slotting? Boy, do you even remember where you came from!? We have SOs at level 1. If we could survive on DOs up until the early 20s, how on Earth could what you say have been true for over 10 years?!
And your fabricated scenario merely sounds like standard fodder, not life or death. Half the time the exemplared folk have high-end IO bonuses to get them through anyway. Outside of the whole ST vs AoE argument, I'm not sure I can take you seriously...
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@Ghost, you need to be careful with targeted insults. You're gonna get your post deleted that way.
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1 minute ago, Super Atom said:
Putting a damage proc or any other kind of IO instead of a KB>KD is the issue. It's literally forcing you to because of the sets design being knockback the musical. As i've said before, I love energy blast so i just deal with it. However if you look at the set compared to other blaster sets it seemingly has a strong force of hand that the others don't. Now you could just not have those IO's and knock everything around like wild but we've been over that a thousand times. This is an issue at low level, maybe even more so because scattering enemies early game can be a death sentence if your team doesn't have good ST characters.
What team doesn't have good ST? I play almost exclusively early game and not having good ST has never been an issue. Not on MM, not on Blaster, not on even Defender and if you're a controller, you can proc a hold if you'd like.
In fact, I'd argue the complete opposite: KB early game is a saving grace since you likely suffer from weaker slotting and fewer people have massive high-powered AoEs except perhaps Blasters in the late 20s, early 30s. It's also a lot more likely control will actually do something, from stopping foes from killing you to...stopping your KB from scattering.
I think you're also committing some exaggeration. At best, it might be an inconvenience if groups of enemies are very close together AND you somehow aggro them by specifically knocking a toggle anchor into the other group.
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34 minutes ago, Sunsette said:
Yeah, okay, play an Energy Blast Sentinel to your 40s without the IO and tell me "this feels fun and intuitive"
I mean if you do and you genuinely feel that way, then more power to you, and I notice you have very different opinions.
But I don't think that's likely.
Going to further point out that the professional developers of the game certainly seem more likely to agree with me than you on this since every powerset designed after Energy Blast behaves at most like Energy Blast does with that IO, even the second set designed entirely around knocks, *and* gets additional benefits or damage on top of that. So you're spending an IO to get a weaker version of your own powerset. This is not comparable to how Storm Summoning or Bonfire change.
I'd say, there are other powersets to choose from then.
As for the last statement, that sounds like you've found your personal solution right there.
24 minutes ago, Super Atom said:It's not an advantage it's an even level to other blasters to be remotely competitive in damage output don't call it something it isn't.
Only if you do not value mitigation or the ability to spam abilities wantonly. So it's basically gotten to, if it doesn't do more damage, it's not an advantage and that mentality seems more prevalent the higher level you go. It's one reason I don't play in those ranges because of how out of whack it is...but people seem to keep wanting to push the *entire game* into the same loop.
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4 minutes ago, Sunsette said:
But I still don't feel great about a poorly designed powerset needing a specific IO to work.
GOOD NEWS!
It doesn't.
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I hate public polls. Your data is skewed from the beginning because people can see the results of the poll in real time...that's a no no.
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1 hour ago, Zewks said:
Refraining from making changes out of "Fear of people having issues with it" is not valid reasoning when people ALREADY have issues with things.
The key is to find which situation creates the least amount of issues.
Right now, players dont have a choice. If they (for example) play a Energy Blaster, they dont get invited to groups, or worse, get kicked from groups. This creates a HORRIBLE experience for that player, and its not based on anything they did wrong. Especially new characters. Especially those that dont have knowledge of the KB->KD IO.
While a global switch would still not do away with people refusing to use it and causing issues, it WOULD allow those who ARE willing to use it to not be shunned and kicked from group content.
You dont stop sending food to starving countries just because people still end up dying of starvation. If a change can help SOME of the problem its better than helping NONE of the problem.
They don't have a choice to what? What do they not have a choice in?
You're exaggerating to try and build a foundation for your argument. Most people don't kick in this game because most would rather just skim through the content for the reward rather than throw hissy fits. Even with completely horrendous KB use, you're looking at extending a TF/SF by maybe 5 min if they don't just outright skip as much of the content as possible to get the whole thing over with. Even if you get kicked, teams are a dime-a-dozen on blue.
I think the solution that is currently available is fine and I don't even ever use the KB/KD crutch.
2 minutes ago, Super Atom said:That's a 1 power unique IO (the enhanced damage would be lower than a proc as a side note). Energy blast features 8 abilities with knockback and if you're being nice, 3 with knockback that would cause frustration. So assuming you put the IO into 1, that's still 2 that have multiple enemy Knockback or have it changed to KB at the cost of damage.
1 minute ago, Sunsette said:- ...once. you can use it once.
- It's not as reliable as Sudden Acceleration (though that's a minor issue) because it has its own independent kd chance and two kds that fire at the same time have a multiplication effect.
- Damage capping within six slots isn't really the trick, it's doing that while grabbing good set bonuses and procs. Blast sets typically are optimally taken to five slot bonuses. While other blast sets that are better in other respects can five slot and spend the last on a useful proc, Energy Blast has to risk the slot machine on Torrent and Blast or get KB to KD just to get consistent performance. Nova in particular is absolutely unusable outside of PvP, KB neutering immobs, or very niche situations without KB to KD IO.
- As a result I will generally spend spend Overwhelming Force on Blast and proc it heavily since it's a very bad power otherwise, weigh skipping Torrent based on the build, and 5 slot the Very Rare in Nova with Sudden Acceleration just to get a slightly worse version of the DP T9. This gets even messier with Sentinels who are expected to use Mag 16 power push rotationally.
The the solution looks like it's putting an enhancement value into Sudden Acceleration...like I said in the beginning.
As for the point about procs and IO bonuses: moot. You are getting an advantage you're sacrificing a slot for just the same as if I take my Peace Bringer and put procs instead of KB>KD. You are not getting nothing for the slot and you'd be getting a bit more if, for example, Sudden Acceleration had some kind of enhancement added to it which is the easiest solution.
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2 hours ago, Sunsette said:
The big issue is damage-focused powers that carry knockback, which is primarily a blast set issue and especially an Energy Blast issue.
Overwhelming Force's KB>KD already enhances damage. So what is the problem?
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24 minutes ago, dnomad333 said:
Obviously there is a debate on it and at least two opposing opinions. So in the end. If we leave things as is. Powersets will be stagnant. Players will be harassed and people will complain. But that seems to be par for the course. So. What do WE do?
Well of course we're going to leave things as is, not because your suggestion is bad or divisive but rather it's not a priority issue thus if any change ever occurs, it will likely be further in the future.
That being said, I don't think your suggestion solves anything you're saying. Players will still be harassed (if they indeed are being *actually* harassed and not just mildly inconvenienced or kicked from a team...newsflash, the kick feature exists in MMOs to be used, not to write treaties of everlasting peace among every individual) and powersets will still be stagnant (whatever that's supposed to mean).
Beyond all that, as a person who likes to see things from the perspectives of others to better argue a point, I'd like you to at least be up front and explain why you specifically want the suggesting you're suggesting. Because, to me, you already have your solution...it was a solution that was fought for and eventually implemented. It was a solution that gives agency and choice in how your powers function and that comes with consequences for a clear advantage that you choose to obtain. Now tell me why you shouldn't have to pay for those advantages but instead should obtain them for free.
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32 minutes ago, ironjoe said:
There were multiple reasons I was recommending both options. During any beta testing phase we typically look at multiple powers and argue over the minutia of different numbers and their impact. I think you underestimate peoples willingness to argue over the specifics if we went down this route.
The problem is, people are always willing to set up options so long as their best interest is represented. It goes from being "more options are always best" to some sort of manipulative self-interested insert. Same with the whole teleportation changes that have made movement mostly delegated to mass team-TP/SG TP affairs that, while convenient, mostly invalidates a lot of the travel system to make the city even smaller than it is. Of course, you have the option of not using them but that option is likely never exercised or will get you thrown out or excluded from TF teams one way or another.
Sometimes, in real life, you need a kick in the teeth to get you on your toes or some crisis/revelation to shine light on the fact you're getting soft and weak. Same thing with the game, but the game really isn't going to force that circumstance so I'll just remind you that the situation you have now is what people clamored for before. You got what you wanted and now you should be satisfied you have it so good. The only thing your other option is is asking to have your cake after you already dug into the one you have.
So, no.
So, procs...
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