[Scrapper Regeneration -> Instant Healing]

Thinking about it, I wouldn't mind Instant Healing on a Scrapper being a toggle.  It would probably end up being highly depowered from the past toggle version, but I'm sure some scrappers out there enjoy their high recharge builds with situational use of IH as a click.

 

On a Stalker, I like it as a click.  I don't really want its recharge lowered (I don't really find myself just sitting in groups of enemies taking attacks...unless they use NB and he actually uses Provoke) but rather a higher amount of the +regen to be enhance-able.  I'd also like it to have a meta interaction with Dull Pain that, when you activate IH, it lowers the recharge (or just instantly recharges) DP so that powers helps in becoming another active heal and not just an Max HP cap tool.  Normally, I'd say give Stalker Regen some +recovery too but I've already dealt with the issue of +recovery and it is indeed manageable just like any other set.  In exchange for the recovery, just slightly better/more frequent clicks would be an equivalent exchange.

 

If Tankers get Regen, give them the old Moment of Glory.  And for Brute, maybe an alternate version of Quick Recovery that either boosts its fury gain in some way or something similar to Rad Armor that buffs Recovery normally but buffs Regen when HP is lower.

 

There, all armor ATs have a unique version of Regeneration.

[Would Dual Pistols benefit from a "Sniper Shot" attack?]

26 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

Sets without Snipes really got sort of left behind when quick snipes were added.  

 

They should get some sort of balancer to this.  

 

Or just dial back the quick-snipe a bit so it's not such a huge gap (if there is, indeed, a gap that leaves other sets behind).

 

Since the new quick-snipe wasn't a project of the live devs but rather the HC team, it shouldn't be a problem to dial it back some.

[Restrict Judgment powers during regular play.]

3 hours ago, Burnt Toast said:

Some of us have been playing since day one and frankly... running lower level content is boring and doesn't exactly make one feel all that heroic.

What is this weird post-level cap raise, trans-definitional neo-intentional term of "hero" people are throwing out these days?

 

To me, it's like some fake ad hominem (as if you don't agree then you're against people feeling like "heroes" and all connotation associated with that word!!!) that, when you actually consider the thought through, is more akin to advocating for using nukes against the equivalent of street thugs because they like the feeling of power.  That is *VILLAINOUS*, and as someone who likes their villains, I would nuke the equivalent of a mall cop because fuck you.

 

I would find it weird and inhumane for heroes to be pushing against a bill in congress that advocated for "heroes" to uphold the same ethics as law enforcement and the escalation of force on a situational basis (and taking into consideration their inherent unkillability into that determination).

[Scrapper Regeneration -> Instant Healing]

11 hours ago, Icecomet said:

Why would anybody want to see anything nerfed?  We all want to feel heroic and super in our builds.  I am not sure where some people proceed from this belief that something is overpowered.  The gaming companies really have people brainwashed into this model that they employ.  We have the power to make the changes that WE want to see.  This is just another change that would right a very old wrong of the game.

 

Icecomet

 

If everything your super hero faces are toddlers armed with binkies, it hardly feels heroic at all.

 

Villainous?  Maybe.  But I bet you're not the villain type.

[Would Dual Pistols benefit from a "Sniper Shot" attack?]

Dual Pistols isn't a sniper's set.  It's very flashy and showy, even Executioner's Shot has its flourishes in there.

 

Mechanical-wise, I don't think every set should abide by the same formula.  I think it's cool that Dual Pistols doesn't have a snipe and not having an aim means it likely has some other aspects that make the set unique (such as being able to turn KB on and off when I feel like it).  I think it'd be pretty dope if there was a new blast set that had more than one snipe-like attack or a set that had only a few blasts but various clicks and toggles to modify those blasts.

 

The only real reason to stick to a particular formula is merely familiarity.  A set can have differing mechanics and advantages/disadvantages and still be balanced to perform nearly the same as other sets.

[Spell Book]

10 hours ago, MTeague said:

Or maybe kinda like "Aura - Hands - Combat Only" kinda thing where if you choose it as part of costume customization you'd see it in combat. 

I like this option, just a combat aura where a tome or scroll opens and floats in front of you.  Kind of like the grimoires in Black Clover.

 

Another thought might be like a stance toggle where you play whatever animations for your attacks but goes back to a "holding book" stance when not executing an attack.

[Change +Max Health into Absorb (and add more Absorb powers)]

6 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

This is a whole lot of semantics. End of the day, Damage is Damage and Health is Health in-game.

There are mechanical differences between actually splitting up damage and just having more HP though. Yes, they do accomplish the same thing of "it takes longer / more attacks for me to be defeated", which can also be applied to More HP and More Defense, or more resistance, or even more offensive power / mez effects to stop incoming hits. The difference is in the details of how this is accomplished and how it directly effects incoming damage:

My arguments were solely about concept though. Not really talking about the mechanical effectiveness or uniqueness.  I realize they are different but if I were making a comparison, that difference is likely not so drastic to push for a change just to fit it into the set.

 

6 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Lets say you have 1000 hp base, and are going to take 500 damage at once. 

 

We have the option of applying a 50% HP boost, or a 50% "Damage Delay" over X seconds.

 

50% HP Boost:

• 1000 hp -> 1500 hp
• 1500 - 500 = 1000 left, or 33% damage dealt down from 50% damage you would have taken.
• You have reduced the incoming damage by about 17% by applying 50% more health in this scenario
• The damage was done instantly, leaving you with 67% of your health left to work with.
• Further hits will hurt just as much, but you have more hp to soak it than you did before

50% Damage Delay: 

• 500 damage -> 250 damage right now, and 250 damage later at some point, some how
• 1000 - 250 = 750 left, or 25% damage dealt down from the 50% you would have taken.
• You have reduced the incoming damage by about 25% 
• There is still more damage incoming in some way, but you have a bigger % of your HP left at the moment right now and have time to react to that.
• Worst case scenario is that the remaining 250 damage comes in full X seconds later, in the moment you still mitigating the 500 more effectively and you have bought time to deal with the threat or patch the damage via natural regeneration. Depending on the timing of the delay, and how it is parsed this could have huge implications to how you actually mitigate your damage over time

 

Again, the differences seem minute.  You say you have "more time to react" but in reality, that's not true.  You have exactly the same amount of time to react..in fact, you have a better chance to gauge what you need to do in the 1st scenario unless you have a giant indicator on screen telling you when the rest of the damage is incoming in the 2nd scenario.  The same goes for allies that have support being able to react without putting a giant indicator in their face as well.

 

Overall, it's not that much different.  It'd be an interesting mechanic to add into the game, but unnecessary to change an existing power unless said power needed help.

 

6 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

More HP is always good, but it doesn't actually mitigate the incoming damage. A Damage Delay mechanic scales with the incoming hits which makes it more variable, but vs big hits it becomes more valuable than just more raw HP in terms of immediate defense and how it can layer with other mechanics or actions.

 

 

 

 

Mind over Matter? The Absorb Layer is the mechanical representation of your boosted willpower to "Ignore damage" until you've hit your limit. Don't underestimate the power of imagination 😉

 

As has been explained already, +HPMax acts basically like resistance so it, in fact, does mitigate incoming damage.  It just has additional effects compared to straight resistance like not caring about damage typing and improving regenerated HP/sec.  It also synergizes with other sets that straight heal or increase regen.

 

As for the imagination part, I've went over it.  Over and over.  +HPMax *does* make sense to dull your pain.  +Absorb, of course you can imagine up some concept that forces it to fit, but that doesn't make +HPMax suddenly *not* fit for this power.

 

And you didn't reply to my previous point.  If replacing these +HPMax powers with +Absorb powers, wouldn't we then have fewer +HPMax powers than +Absorb especially considering the propensity to add +absorb to new powers/sets?  Are we trying to just phase out +HPMax and leave it to IO set bonuses?  Wouldn't that make sets all the more similar if we did that?

[Restrict Judgment powers during regular play.]

1 hour ago, oedipus_tex said:

A fix I personally, but maybe not the whole playerbase, would support is making all the incarnate powers slottable into "universal slots" instead of 1 per incarnate power type.  Maybe you get 1 slot at the start of the incarnate tree and the 2nd one unlocks at Hybrid.  You'd have to pick 2 incarnate powers slotted at a time, but not more than that. E.g. I could slot Alpha and Destiny, but then wouldn't get Lore, Judgement, Interface, and Hybrid. Interface is the weakest one so maybe that one is outside this rule. Maybe Alpha too.

 

1 hour ago, Galaxy Brain said:

The idea to restrict players to the choice of which (Destiny / Lore / Judgement) to take is an interesting one. Honestly that wouldn't be so bad as its more the snowball of *everyone* having all those options at once that trivializes a lot. For example, why take the Tank Hybrid option if you can cover your defenses with Destiny? That said, if you'd rather do for damage and get a Judgement Nuke then you may not want to go all damage and pick up more defensive or even support based Alpha/Interface/Hybrid slots. 

 

I also like this idea.  I'd probably go one step further and give you 2 slots, an inherent slot and a clicky slot.  The first slot you have to choose between Alpha, Interface or Hybrid, the 2nd slot, choose between Destiny, Lore and Judgement.  The 3rd and last slot unlocked would be a universal slot that you can pick any of the remaining incarnate types.  Personally speaking, for a character who isn't a *super* incarnate with orbital lasers and ghost pets running around, maybe they'd pick Alpha and Hybrid and leave the other slot blank.  For my deity-esque incarnates, maybe they'd have Destiny and Lore and whatever else fits.

 

As for my opinion of incarnates: the OP was expressing an idea that got completely ignored which is hilarious.  He was talking about creating a mechanic that drives your incarnate powers.  In and of itself, that is a kind of content.  It's not a story or a mission or raid, but it is content as it adds something to your combat that you then have to manage to improve your performance.  It did get sidelined by accusations of *REMOVING* Judgements which is a hilarious over exaggeration.  Like I said before, if the game had continued on live for long enough, I have a suspicion the devs would feel pressured to limit overall use of incarnate powers in some way and having an "incarnate meter" or something would have been the easiest option.  Setting it up so that things like Interface or Hybrid slightly slows down the incarnate meter (kind of like a toggle cost) and Judgement/Lore requiring a 90% bar (so you can't use both) and Destiny needs at least half a bar (with diminished effects...a full bar gives you the full effect) sounds fair and may require leagues to coordinate who uses what incarnate powers moreso than is needed in today's endgame TF content.

 

If I were personally waving a magic wand because I don't have the chops to actually make content, I'd probably make some kind of group or enemy type that "steals" or "seals" incarnate powers and you could randomly walk into a mission and all (or some) of your incarnate powers would be locked and secondary objectives within the mission or TF would be required to gain back the use of these powers.  This would be in regular content too.

 

Another separate idea I had thought of is the reverse of the above/the OP's idea to charge your incarnate powers: Any content you play while having incarnate powers would offer you a base amount of incarnate rewards (exp, threads, shards, etc) but it would be small.  Then you have your "Incarnate Power Multiplier" which is just something used to track how many times an incarnate power like Judgement, Lore, Destiny, etc is used by you or your team.   It would start at some high number like x10 (multiplying the base reward) and for every time you tap into that power, you spend some of that multiplier.  If you and your team accumulate too many uses, the multiplier goes to x0 and you get no incarnate rewards or exp.  Roll it into incarnate raids (although the multiplier would be even higher, like x65) and I'd be interested to see how that would play out.  

[Restrict Judgment powers during regular play.]

2 hours ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

First, ever on a team with a couple blasters with their nukes recharge at 30 seconds or so? Yeah next to that a team full of judgement isnt that impressive. Likewise lets see its only from 45-50 exemped incarnates get access to their powers. Most folks I know wont even try shadow shard TFs if at least a few full incarnates are not on the team to help speed it up. I cant even think of content that is drastically impacted by going incarnate, but I suspect that has to do with the way i build my toons.

 

IME people like the OP here are really QQing over nothing, because odds are they will be dead weight for most teams with competent builds and players behind those builds. Because lets face it, what the OP is really saying is he feels useless as a moderate DPS build, that offers no utility or support to the team, so they are pissy about feeling useless because they build to be a one trick pony, and then found out their pony wasnt the Black Stallion.

I think you've swung to the other extreme.

 

On one extreme, there's the QQing one-trick pony or limited concept build that is outplayed so wants to nerf everything and on the other is elitist power-gamers who boldly shove others' ineptitude in their faces.

 

The problem is, the game isn't hard to achieve anything in or to play so it's kind of like listening to a kid brag about how we aced a spelling bee, got straight A's in his 4th grade year and is the best basketball player on your kid's league team.  I'm happy you're proud of yourself and what you have accomplished in the game, but the goalposts have been artificially lowered and you're not competing for anything but participation trophies.  Calm down.

[Restrict Judgment powers during regular play.]

1 hour ago, MTeague said:

But I think that's really got to be the solution here. Not to take powers away from other people but just to use some judgement in which teams you join and which teams you pass on.

The thing is, this is likely already the case with many that like more "standard" balance.  It's just that, once you get to a certain level and set of content, it's harder to vet such teams to the point that such players just don't team in that level range at all or only to obtain certain rewards.  I mean, imagine starting a level 49 team and as the team leader dictating to everyone "don't use any incarnate powers or you're kicked".  It's pretty dickish and likely will get you unneeded drama.

 

To those that prefer the standard balance, it's like having a whole block of content just blocked off from playing.

 

A possible option might be to give the team lead the option of disabling specific post-50 abilities although having a kind of "charge" mechanic that exhausted some of your incarnate power when not facing worthy foes sounds like a mechanism that the live devs would have eventually sought to curb the creep as it would still allow the players to use these abilities just not at once, requiring more consideration before using them.

[POLL: Which Support sets need work?]

For Force Field, I think the most changes going into these sets should seek to keep it's relatively similar style and keep its effects conceptually sensical.  For example, +regen or -regen doesn't make sense for Force Field as a concept.  -Res also doesn't really make sense for Force Field.  Rather than patch up Force Field with pity effects, changes should embrace the set's concept and not cut corners.  So the changes I'd suggest:

 

Dispersion Bubble - [Add PBAoE +absorb over time]

Not much and keep it passive as the set's style is a more passive style of play.  Dispersion Bubble would slowly apply +absorb to all within its range.  Around every 8seconds, it'd give around 3% +absorb.  Might sound crappy but the duration of that absorb is long (like 3 min) and can stack upwards of 25%.  So in about 1 min, it will max out (and it applies to the user too) and with slotting, it'd max out faster.  It's not mean to be reactionary, but more aimed to aid the user with a bit of supplementary mitigation to those around them, i.e. this isn't meant to be a "game changer".  That's for the other abilities...

 

Anchoring Field - [Replaces Detention Field; same effect just as a toggle with AoE effects around the target]

Anchoring Field is a toggle target Untouchable that can be held for up to 15sec.  The target is untouchable and can only affect self and is immobilized.  Foes within 15ft of the target will be snared and be drawn to the target (vectored repel or vectored knock- if that is in the works).  If the pull effect isn't possible, an area of -movement and low mag immobilize for the duration of the toggle still works.  The only contention may be that current Detention Field lasts up to 30sec and this would half that which may rub some people the wrong way...perhaps if the toggle isn't deactivated after 15sec, the toggle will turn off after casting another untouchable effect that lasts an additional 15sec.

 

Repulsion Field - [Add short duration self +protection to knockback, -fly, repel, sleep, hold, immobilize, disorient and NOT confuse or fear upon turning on]

Similar to Faraday Cage, activating Repulsion Field can be done while mezzed thus breaking away from the effects.  The duration is short (around 15-20sec or so) but all other effects are the same.  The disadvantage of this is it might rub users the wrong way if they usually just keep Repulsion Field running.  Personally, I don't see the purpose of always running it.  I tend to turn it on when I want to do surgical positioning which would make it a perfect if I can get some short term mez protection for it.

 

Repulsion Bomb - [Throwback to old functionality: castable on allies, adds smashing damage to all their attacks]

Rather than a standard +damage power, I figure borrowing the concept of Electrical Affinity's Amp Up mechanic to give an ally the ability to unleash chain lightning with their attacks, Repulsion Bomb, when cast on an ally will instead form offensive energy shields for that ally and allies withing 15ft that will flare up every time their perform an attack.  It adds smashing damage to their attacks for a short time.  That damage is enhanceable by the target's damage bonuses...so it's a buff that will always add damage even if outside buffs cap that ally's damage.  The duration is very short (like 8 seconds).

 

Force Bubble - [Adds 3 temp powers, one to block, one to lock and one to incapacitate]

Similar to the Mystic Flight power that grants you an additional power while you have it toggled, Force Bubble would give access to 3 additional powers (2 toggles and a click) while its active.  Activating any of these powers *adds* and endurance cost to Force Bubble for its duration that cannot be reduced. It would be difficult to manage using these 3 powers and still using other toggles and clicks...basically, it requires your full concentration to manage...unless you have outside assistance to help fuel the energy consumption.

1. Frictionless Field: A click with a long range that puts down an Ice Slick-like patch, 15ft radius TAoE that lasts 30sec
2. Force Wall: A location toggle that erects a wall that cannot be attacked through by friend, foe or yourself.  Foes and allies can, however, walk through it.
3. Force Dome: A location toggle that erects a 15ft dome/sphere. Foes within the dome are completely locked in place (not even repeled by the Force Bubble...so granting them repel resistance and immobilize) but can still attack through the dome.

Personal Force Field - [minor QoL addition]

Simply allow this toggle to turn off the effects (and costs) of all other powers but keep them toggled on, i.e. one could turn force bubble on while PFF is activated, you can set up Force Wall and Force Dome, it have no effect at all until deactivation of PFF.  Everything else, like Anchoring Field or Frictionless Field wouldn't be able to activate until after PFF is deactivated.

[Energy Blast and Knockback]

On 3/24/2020 at 1:53 PM, Solarverse said:

Energy/Energy Blasters have been my main since day one of this game. My very first character was an Energy/Energy Blaster, and my first character on Homecoming was the same thing and still today remains my main to this day. Now that my "creds" are out of the way, I'll get to my point, lol.

 

First, Kudos for learning how to use Knock back to the team's advantage. Most players do not from my personal experience and often I have to ask myself, "Is this guy just trolling the team?" So any player who uses Knock Back well, gets no complaints from me. I can tell the difference from a well played knock back player and a player who uses knock back carelessly. So again, Kudos to you.

 

Prior to the KB to KD IO implementation, playing in that way was my ONLY option. I learned very quickly how to play my Energy/EM Blaster well on teams.  Back in those days you were kicked from teams for making so much as a single mistake. So I had to be on my A-Game every time I played and had to be careful to not so much as make a single mistake. Once KB to KD IO's came out it relieved that pressure, big time. Because of KB to KD IO I no longer have to take the time to maneuver my Blaster around a mob to line my attacks up against a wall. I no longer had to Hover above a mob (in the event no wall was nearby) and aim straight down so it knocks them down instead of back. I am grateful for KB to KD IO's because with the current speed that players kill mobs these days, I feel maneuvering around these mobs to carefully use an AoE or Cone is time wasted that could be better spent firing off my AoE's and Cones from any advantage point on the map that I just happen to be at. Now I no longer feel like I am wasting time carefully setting up my attacks, and honestly, it feels amazing!

 

So for me personally, I still prefer the KB to KD IO over the time spent maneuvering my Blaster around mobs so that my Knock Back doesn't negatively impact a team. I suspect you may eventually reach the same conclusion I have...and if not, I am still very grateful you are one of those players who know how to use KB.  🙂

So you're an Energy Blast vet, hm?

 

A bit suspect with the advice.  I say that namely because the obvious advice is absent.

 

So you don't like to position yourself to "use KB good" because it hampers your personal performance so KB>KD....

 

My advice would be...don't.  Don't reposition.  Just use situational awareness.  For example:

 

Scenario #1: Your team is efficiently grouping foes up and AoEing them down.  No other knowledge.

~~ Just use ST blasts.  If the team is already steamrolling through spawns, you don't need to add more AoE.  And anyone complaining that you're knocking back your target and killing them is obviously just complaining because they want to complain about something.  Alternatively, you can wait to use your AoEs after a lot of the other team members have saturated the spawn with damage.

 

Scenario #2: You have teammembers who use toggle debuffs.

~~Don't target the anchor.  Simple as that.

 

Scenario #3: A controller/dominator on the team is using AoE immobilizes.

~~You can use AoE KB so long as the immobilize has -KB in them.  The ones that don't are Gravity, Electric and Dark, I think (also Mind and Illusion don't have immobilize at all).  Also, the -KB only lasts for 15sec.

 

Scenario #4: Aggro management is limited and survival of the team is tough.

~~Use your KB more for mitigation.  Just be mindful to not KB foes into un-aggro'ed spawns, off platforms and such.  Use your KB to give the melee's breathing room. Use the KB to keep foes off of squishies.  Keep yourself guarded.

 

All of these circumstances don't require a wall or special positioning, just paying attention and adapting to the situation at hand...oh and self restraint.  That's probably like telling people to stay home so you don't spread disease.  Yes, even you can NOT click that button when it comes off of recharge because it's not needed.  I bet if it were possible, some would put all their powers on auto and just run around lol

[Change +Max Health into Absorb (and add more Absorb powers)]

Heh, this is actually a pretty funny reply because everything you're saying strengthens the concept of Dull Pain being +HPMax.

 

14 minutes ago, AgentForest said:

HP is the amount of DAMAGE one can sustain, not the amount of PAIN one can sustain.  Having more HP would mean it takes more hits to break your arm.  More intense heat to cause burns to your skin.  A bullet still hits you, but doesn't quite penetrate to vital organs.  If a passive ability increases your max HP, fine.  I have no issue with that.  You are just inherently more durable than other characters.  But that shouldn't really be fluid throughout a fight.  It doesn't make sense.

 

The word pain was used here because it's in the name of the power.  Conceptually, pain and damage are synonymous.  Having more HP doesn't mean it takes more "effect" to break your arm.  A Tanker with Super Reflexes will get their arm broken all the same as Tanker with Invulnerability if they have the same HP values.  The difference you are talking about is *resistance*.

 

More heat isn't required to cause a burn, only that the fire that caused it can ignite.  The difference you're talking about would be insulation or heat *resistance* which would then define the severity of the burn.  Whether a bullet hits, grazes, penetrates vital organs is a combination of defense, accuracy and resistance.

 

Anyone whose dealt with pain, injury and threatening situations can tell you that pain responses do indeed fluctuate and isn't always a constant.  Going through SERE training gives you the background to compose yourself while undergoing harsh conditions.  It's a switch.  It's not always on.

 

26 minutes ago, AgentForest said:

But pain is more mental than physical.  It has to do with perception of damage, not damage itself.  You can't literally take more damage without dying just because your pain response is dulled.  You can just ignore more of that damage, but will still succumb to the same injuries.  Sort of like illusory damage from Spectral Wounds, but backwards.  The very concept should be temporary and not "real" hitpoints.  Otherwise it isn't dulled pain, but bonus durability.  If I give someone morphine to dull their pain response, a gunshot will still go through them just the same.  They just won't notice right away.  This is why absorb is ideal for such a mechanic.

 

Like I said above, in a realm where someone can incapacitate an opponent with their mind or by ripping out a part of their soul, pain and damage are synonymous.

 

And why can't my characters take more damage without dying by dulling their pain responses?  That is literally a super power and explanation of what some revive powers do.

 

And just ignoring more of the damage but will still succumb to the same injuries?  Sounds exactly like Dull Pain when that "morphine" effect starts to wear off.

 

30 minutes ago, AgentForest said:

Get hit with a 100 damage attack, but only take 50 damage, while the remaining 50 comes in over the next 10 seconds, buying time for regen and healing to take effect.  

 

You literally just described Dull Pain.

 

Instead of concocting a new mechanic of delayed damage application, having that 100 damage attack "dealt with" over a larger HP pool accomplishes the same thing.

 

Conceptual-wise, you don't suddenly take 50 damage by dulling your pain and then 50 damage later, you take it all...it just hurts less because you can withstand more pain (i.e. damage) than usual.

 

And you still haven't made a cohesive argument why +absorb, which is conceptually described as a *barrier* of material or energy makes sense at all for someone concentrating their mind and body to not fall over from taking too many hits.  I repeat: +absorb is a BARRIER.

 

The funny part, though, is all you had to do is concede to my point...and then turn around and point to Hoarfrost and Earth's Embrace instead.  I have no idea why you kept going though lol

 

[Change +Max Health into Absorb (and add more Absorb powers)]

1 hour ago, AgentForest said:

Not exactly.  To dull pain is to blunt it.  To shrug it off.  You are essentially numbing yourself to a blow.  If a portion of that blow just didn't happen, that's an absorb.  You aren't increasing your health.  You're just ignoring the pain of a hit.

 

1 hour ago, AgentForest said:

You use the absorb to soak up the hits, and the regeneration tops you off while the shield buys you time to regenerate.

 

See the 2nd quote.  That's not "numbing" the pain, that's "soaking up" the pain.

 

Current Dull Pain does exactly that: blunt the pain because now you have a higher threshold of pain (i.e. more HP).  You might say dulling pain isn't giving yourself more HP but I'd argue that HP is literally how much pain you can withstand before falling over dead/unconscious so having more means pain will affect you less just like a Tanker capable of withstanding more pain than a Dominator.

[Change +Max Health into Absorb (and add more Absorb powers)]

2 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

@Joshex, I like that breakdown but I think attributing reason to how or why certain powers were implemented will forever be a guessing game as the game was axed very soon after the first bit of absorb went live. We simply do not know if there were intentions to explore the mechanic even further either by tweaking it or adding it to more sets.

 

That said, I wanna touch on the benefits of absorb compared to HP.

 

Firstly, Absorb gets much more useful the closer you are to max HP anyways, since it let's you actually go beyond the max even if temporarily. An invuln tank with Dull Pain running + hp bonuses will get a huge amount of mileage out of an absorb layer cast on them that stacks with all their defenses. 

 

Secondly, the handful of powers which do have a regenerating absorb shield act as a very unique "Negation" layer. For example, a character with an absorb layer of 120 every 3 seconds effectively has a barrier of 40dps in order to actually hurt them at all.

A unique argument then:

 

I believe it's been demonstrated that having both +absorb and +HPMax is more beneficial than either alone.  Considering the push to have new sets or underperforming sets to have +absorb, wouldn't it be better to uphold the current differences so that there remains more variety and scales of effectiveness when powers interact rather than shift more things to have just +absorb?  Someone mentioned Frostworks should change to +absorb, but should it?  Don't you think +absorb would fit better on Force Fields?  If both sets have +absorb (on top of other new sets or other self-buff powers) wouldn't have hit a point of diminishing returns far faster?  And having FF with +absorb and Cold Domination with +HPMax would have some level of compliment there considering they both already step on each others' toes with +def.

 

And it's far more likely when new powers or sets are changed in the future, you will see even more +absorb because it's the new cool fad that everyone wants...is it really wise to retroactively change all these other powers?

 

2 hours ago, AgentForest said:

Joshex, your argument doesn't really make sense.  You seem to be the one saying the tides control the moon here.  I'm simply looking at the development process as it has played out.

New mechanics were added, and in their addition, old mechanics that did similar things just sorta stopped being used.  +HP was implemented before the game had the ability to add temporary HP to a character through absorb barriers.  It was the same idea, but more awkward because those temporary HP were capable of being healed, which doesn't actually make logical sense.  If I dull the pain I'm receiving, I'm not actually increasing my hit points.  I'm merely shrugging off more of the damage.  I'm ignoring some of it.  Like a barrier would provide.  But the game engine didn't allow for temporary barriers until years later.  Nearly a decade later.  WoW came out within a year of CoH, and this mechanic was known from its beta, so I doubt the CoH team hadn't heard of it.  But their engine didn't allow for shields like that.  So they made due with a work-around.  The weird part of this work-around was that it meant that "shield" could be healed and regenerated.  It also had some collateral of causing a regen boost because regeneration in this engine is based on max HP.

The fact that when the game finally DID incorporate Absorb shields, they almost entirely stopped providing +HP powers says something.  You may not want to admit it, but it's true.  They fixed the issue with the engine, and had finally worked out a way to do what those powers used to provide more clumsily through +HP.

 

Arguing on a conceptual level, creating an ablative barrier that takes damage in your stead isn't dulling pain, it's negating it.  Dull Pain does exactly what it says: damage to *you* (you are your HP) of the same amount  has a % less effect on you, i.e. the effect is duller.  It's effectively the same as resistance too but then you aren't *dulling* the pain, you are *resisting* the pain.  Also on a conceptual level, defense used to be for deflecting, dodging or absorbing (taking a blow but it having no effect) but now that we have a mechanic that actually absorbs, that is sort of a null concept.

 

And they certainly have been using +HPMax powers still, even in sets that have +absorb.  If you really see +HPMax as some sort of mistake, then I think that takes changing any powers off the table here.  You'd have to discuss what effects that each individual effect lacks or excels in and surmise what exchanging one effect for another has on the balance of powers and sets.  Like mentioned above, I really don't see a reason to fix something that isn't broken when the devs have already demonstrated they are willing to create new powers with new effects.  This mostly seems like a push for change for parity but soon, +HPMax will be the rarer effect here.