Argentae

Ok. That's a huge change, totally makes sense now. Anyone know if the debuffs from Seekers stack with each other? So if both Seekers hit it's -(2*5=10) tohit, - (2*20=40) damage and the two stuns can stack to mag 4?

First time through on both of these sets. Random thought: Arsenal/Dark is probably nigh unkillable. Just picked up Trip mine and getting used to it. Love it. Went back to compare it with Time Bomb in Mids... I'll get to start playing with it soon, but, um, it looks worse than Trip mine in every way except radius. Trip mine does substantially more damage (12' radius) and recharges in 20 seconds. Time Bomb does substantially less (20' radius) and recharges in 360 seconds. The large radius is nothing to sneeze at, but at 13 TIMES the recharge, it seems very Meh. What am I missing? On both it looks like I can slot a FF + Rech, so on my Arsenal/Traps it looks like I can slot 3 FF (Nitro, Trip Mine, Time Bomb) which will be nice. Overall loving Arsenal/Traps. Been going through large spawns since the teens. At 29 it's really picking up some serious clear speed. I thought I'd be able to throw together a build by now, but I still have potentially key powers to play with (Poison Trap, Time Bomb, and last and probably least Seeker drones) so I find I'm reserving judgement on what really deserves the precious slots. Appreciate any tips/thoughts from my fellow Controller aficionados! 🙂

Still working my Arsenal/Traps up, work has been under busy doing audit preps. echoing Vince above, it’s a pretty high damage set. Sleep grenade (5 Posi blast), if you toss in Flash bang first does very good AOE dmg. Nitrogen (both 5 PosiBlast) does put out some decent dmg slotted up, but might do better with procs. I just hit 29 tonight, with about + 41 global Rech and Tricannon finally 4 slotted so I’m seeing the dmg potential. Solid. And with 80% resist, one +10 pet resist IO will put cannon at the resist cap and cut incoming dmg in half. Excellent tank, with good taunt and pairs well with Triage beacon and FF bot. AOE dmg wise I’m pretty much blowing through +1/+2 X 8 spawns with 2 5 packs of Posi blast, 1 6 pack of Malaise in Smoke canister, and I think 3 LotG + Rech global and Panacea unique in health. Rest are SOs. I think I will eventually add 3 FF + Rech in Nitro and the two bombs, global Rech really transforms this build. Surprisingly high damage primary and a great pet.

Looks like a pretty good build. Haven’t been on the forums for a while, things got busy irl… I have a couple builds to get back too. Really need to spend some time with my original main Mind/Kin now that the patch is live… Started a new alt to play with two sets I haven’t tried, Arsenal/Traps. It’s an obvious thematic and functional pairing, and so far (only about to hit 22) it’s a lot of fun. I’m still learning the sets, but I like them both so far. Shield drone rocks. 🙂 I have no idea how well the various AOE powers that pulse proc. Each set has quirks and pseudo pets sometimes do weird things. I get most of what you’re doing, and pretty sure you can up your recharge a bit, maybe your def (Coercive Pers instead of WotC in Smoke Canister maybe? If you can fit SWotC somewhere else?) and definitely increase your ST damage. on my phone so can’t really look at it in depth yet. Played Arsenal/Traps this weekend a bit, so I have at least a rough idea. I’ll throw together a build tomorrow or Tuesday and post it. Will probably have better suggestions then, appreciate your posting your build! You said you want to add TP and up def and Rech? Can you describe how your Attack chain runs, AOE primarily? Im a big believer in Posi Blast on the way up and if you can’t slot a purple set, I’m guessing the Artillery set is for Def? maybe shift a couple slots to BazGase to pick up the +7.5 Rech? What is your global Rech now? you have several powers Frankenstein slotted that could take sets that might help you. ST you should absolutely consider proccing out Cryo, the ST hold. It will hit a LOT harder. Look at the hold procs, there are a lot to choose with ranged damage procs added in. if you want some self healing (which would make you a lot tougher) consider picking up the ST sleep as a blast and give it an extra slot for the Sandman self heal. If it’s part of your attack chain it will go off a Lot. Decent ST damage for good endurance and the sleep lasts forever without slotting. Great for sleeping a boss just outside your patches, stopping runners etc. i underslotted Sleep grenade on the way up, its a great AOE damage attack, can’t wait to see it slotted.

Sounds interesting! I haven't been on my computer with Mids installed today, and tonight is the night we take the whole family over to Grandma's for dinner, so probably won't have much time to look at anything later this evening, I definitely look forward to seeing what you did in proc loading Plant/Storm! Slotting SoC for damage is absolutely NOT what I was thinking when I was playing this build heavily. Pretty sure it got a 6 pack of Coercive Persuasion for the +Def Ranged and Contagious Confusion. As I recall Veridicane's build was pretty conventional, more set bonus focused instead of shoe horning in procs. When I did Plant/Dark I added in the ST immob for better A/V imobilization, so I agree you're on the right track there, it's just useful. I've been thinking about revisiting Plant/Storm, but I'm working up an Illusion/Storm/Lev atm as the sheer number of pet/pseudopets sounds like fun. 🙂

That's fair, but the end cost should have been reduced when they dropped it from 16 to 5. And instantly holding 16 mobs is a pretty major exaggeration. It was often made quite difficult by the small AOE and the spread effect as they moved away from you. With practice you could sweep them up, but it's not like it was a push-button-I-win kind of power. I agree about the change though. 🙂

I figured out what was happening there, the "Automatic field of view" setting in graphics was causing things to look WAY closer outside than in the warehouse on my ultra wide curved monitor. With that setting corrected it seemed like it was working correctly. The reaction time to my moving is still a bit delayed, I think a faster pulse would probably make it more responsive. I played around with it more on the beach, and I really do like it as a mob sweeping function, flying around and gathering up the mobs. I LIKE the mechanics of the new TK as a spawn clumping tool, the only other negative repel I can think of is Singularity. I think it could be a fun and useful positioning tool with much lower end cost and cooldown. Seriously, 2 minutes cooldown is just way too much. Good point about the -kb and Levitate, though it would do the damage anyway. Pretty sure Entangling arrow applies a massive -KB (resistance?) and Levitate still works fine. Actually has a great FX as it looks like the mob stretches the net way up and then SLAMS back into the ground. 😛

Pre-ED it was a signature power. Not reducing the massive end cost when dropping it to 5 targets made it much more situational. It was still useful in the right circumstances, and unique. I like the idea of the new version, but as mentioned above, it needs some major tweaking. I don’t think TK is many people’s favorite power anymore, but the new version as it stands is a substantial change for the worse. The idea of the change seems good though. If you reduced the cool down a lot, dropped the end cost substantially and gave it -kb like FireCages or Root I think it could be useful. It’s also worth noting that if you’re putting it in the same class of power as other AOE immob powers, then doing zero damage is already a big downgrade from the standard. A 2 minute cooldown and massive end cost just isn’t at all justified for what it currently does. I do love the clumping effect, that’s useful and unique. Maybe make it a click power that does that, does no damage, and has a reasonable end cost and immob duration with -kb, and give it a cooldown twice the immob duration so it can be perma with three SO Rech equivalent. The utility of clumping is balanced by zero damage and longer cooldown. It would be a useful but not game breaking power that would be unique to Mind while fixing some imbalances. With a long recharge you would have to be careful about what sets can be slotted, as it is you can’t slot ANY sets iirc.

Thanks! I dug up the focused feedback thread, and copied it there, you're totally right, that's where it should be.

Actually posted the original in the Controller forum thread, then expanded and posted in patch release notes then finally copied to here as the appropriate location. Sorry for the duplication! I've been playing around a bit with the new TK on test on a Mind/Storm build. No IO sets or enh, purely SO. No incarnate powers/slots. For context, I LOVED the original pre-ED TK. It was one of the few powers that was balanced by player SKILL. You could do amazing things with it, but it took real practice, and you had to do pretty much nothing else given the end cost. Initial reaction: The new TK has some potential, I like the way it looks. The reverse repel is excellent. If I could effectively maneuver the spawn around to pull together stray mobs it could be really useful/cool. As it exists though, it's a VERY poor swap for the existing TK. I can understand why they want to give Mind/ an immob, not having a durable containment setting power like almost every other Control primary (Except Illusion as mentioned below) is really unfair given everything being balanced around Containment. The new TK could fill that slot, but the recharge being set to 2 minutes and the end cost still being 3.12 end per second makes it useless as an every spawn power. Another problem is it does NOT apply a -kb. It also doesn't last anywhere near 30 seconds. I was testing as a lvl 50 in PI against lvl 43 mobs and it barely lasted 20 seconds and then went into a 2-minute cool down. So first pass synopsis, obviously very subjective, maybe it gets better with a lot of practice, but I'm pretty good with Mind/ and used to use TK a lot back in the day. It went from auto hit to needing to slot accuracy. -- usefulness It is no longer a hold it's only an immob. - usefulness though having an immob in mind would be useful The target cap has gone back to 16 + usefulness Cool down is still 2 minutes -- usefulness given it's now being a every spawn kind of power, rather than a situational power Endurance cost is still 3.12 PER SECOND which has been broken ever since the target cap was dropped to 5. -- usefulness Having the TK immob lack a -kb component reduces the utility substantially compared to most other Controller Primary immobs. Which is absurd considering the huge recharge and massive endurance cost - usefulness The ability to use it as a positioning power is really only largely theoretical. I had the from-the-caster repel reverse and pull them towards me on some (con -5) DE mobs on a beach in PI. I clumped up some even level Council in a warehouse mission, fast hovered to the other side to push them out of a corridor and it didn't really work. The repel from the caster seems to be on too slow a pulse to be very useful. I threw a Tornado at spawns and watched the spawn explode like bowling pins. In summary, a power that has been broken since ED (end cost was never adjusted when target cap was gutted to 5) but was still situationally useful, has been replaced by a power that while it has some potential, is currently worse in almost every way. This is literally the point of having a beta test though! 🙂 This change has potential, but IMO needs MAJOR tweaks as it stands. I want to repeat though, I think it's great that someone is looking at TK and Mind/. Mind/ is at a substantial disadvantage against pretty much all other Control primaries (except Illusion, and they get PA which more than balances it out) in not being able to readily use containment (which the AT is balanced around) for AOE damage. I think TK is probably the right place to put a solution, and conceptually it makes some sense. As it stands though, it has made a situational, borderline skip-it power so much worse, which I'm sure is not the intent.

Cross posted and expanded upon from the thread in the Controller forum as this is where feedback is currently.: I've been playing around a bit with the new TK on test on a Mind/Storm build. No IO sets or enh, purely SO. No incarnate powers/slots. For context, I LOVED the original pre-ED TK. It was one of the few powers that was balanced by player SKILL. You could do amazing things with it, but it took real practice, and you had to do pretty much nothing else given the end cost. Initial reaction: The new TK has some potential, I like the way it looks. The reverse repel is excellent. If I could effectively maneuver the spawn around to pull together stray mobs it could be really useful/cool. As it exists though, it's a VERY poor swap for the existing TK. I can understand why they want to give Mind/ an immob, not having a durable containment setting power like almost every other Control primary (Except Illusion as mentioned below) is really unfair given everything being balanced around Containment. The new TK could fill that slot, but the recharge being set to 2 minutes and the end cost still being 3.12 end per second makes it useless as an every spawn power. Another problem is it does NOT apply a -kb. It also doesn't last anywhere near 30 seconds. I was testing as a lvl 50 in PI against lvl 43 mobs and it barely lasted 20 seconds and then went into a 2-minute cool down. So first pass synopsis, obviously very subjective, maybe it gets better with a lot of practice, but I'm pretty good with Mind/ and used to use TK a lot back in the day. It went from auto hit to needing to slot accuracy. -- usefulness It is no longer a hold it's only an immob. - usefulness though having an immob in mind would be useful The target cap has gone back to 16 + usefulness Cool down is still 2 minutes -- usefulness given it's now being a every spawn kind of power, rather than a situational power Endurance cost is still 3.12 PER SECOND which has been broken ever since the target cap was dropped to 5. -- usefulness Having the TK immob lack a -kb component reduces the utility substantially compared to most other Controller Primary immobs. Which is absurd considering the huge recharge and massive endurance cost - usefulness The ability to use it as a positioning power is really only largely theoretical. I had the from-the-caster repel reverse and pull them towards me on some (con -5) DE mobs on a beach in PI. I clumped up some even level Council in a warehouse mission, fast hovered to the other side to push them out of a corridor and it didn't really work. The repel from the caster seems to be on too slow a pulse to be very useful. I threw a Tornado at spawns and watched the spawn explode like bowling pins. In summary, a power that has been broken since ED (end cost was never adjusted when target cap was gutted to 5) but was still situationally useful, has been replaced by a power that while it has some potential, is currently worse in almost every way. This is literally the point of having a beta test though! 🙂 This change has potential, but IMO needs MAJOR tweaks as it stands. I want to repeat though, I think it's great that someone is looking at TK and Mind/. Mind/ is at a substantial disadvantage against pretty much all other Control primaries (except Illusion, and they get PA which more than balances it out) in not being able to readily use containment (which the AT is balanced around) for AOE damage. I think TK is probably the right place to put a solution, and conceptually it makes some sense. As it stands though, it has made a situational, borderline skip-it power so much worse, which I'm sure is not the intent.

I've been playing around a bit with the new TK on test on a Mind/Storm build. Initial reaction: It has some potential, I like the way it looks. The reverse repel is excellent. As it exists though it's a VERY poor swap for the existing TK. I can understand why they want to give Mind/ an immob, not having a durable containment setting power like every other Control primary is really unfair given everything being balanced around Containment. The new TK could fill that slot, but the recharge being set to 2 minutes and the end cost still being 3.12 end per second makes it useless as an every spawn power. Another problem is it does NOT apply a -kb. It also doesn't last anywhere near 30 seconds. I was testing as a lvl 50 in PI against lvl 43 mobs and it barely lasted 20 seconds and then went into a 2-minute cool down. So first pass synopsis, obviously very subjective, maybe it gets better with a lot of practice, but I'm pretty good with Mind/ and used to use TK a lot back in the day. It went from auto hit to needing to slot accuracy. -- usefulness It is no longer a hold it's only an immob. - usefulness though having an immob in mind would be useful The target cap has gone back to 16 + usefulness Cool down is still 2 minutes -- usefulness given it's now being a every spawn kind of power, rather than a situational power Endurance cost is still 3.12 PER SECOND which has been broken ever since the target cap was dropped to 5. -- usefulness Having the TK immob lack a -kb component reduces the utility substantially compared to most other Controller Primary immobs. Which is absurd considering the huge recharge and massive endurance cost - usefulness The ability to use it as a positioning power is really only largely theoretical. I had the repel reverse and pull them towards me on some DE mobs on a beach in PI. I threw a Tornado at the spawn and watched the spawn explode like bowling pins. In summary, a power that has been broken since ED (end cost was never adjusted when target cap was gutted to 5) but was still situationally useful, has been replaced by a power that while it has some potential, is currently worse in almost every way. This is literally the point of having a beta test though! 🙂 This change has potential, but needs MAJOR tweaks as it stands.

My god... it's full of stars. 🙂 Sooo many updates. I'll need to play with the new Telekinesis. IMO TK has been broken since the target cap was crippled to 5 in ED but the EXTREME end cost was never adjusted to reflect the changed utility. The new version is a completely different power, but providing a clumping and immob function, and it sounds like you can push the resulting clump around by moving? Need to play with it and see how it works in play. VERY happy that someone is looking at TK though! I appreciate the massive amount of effort that has gone into this update, you all ROCK!

There is an entire new primary set for Controller/Dominators and matching secondary for Dominators: Arsenal Control and Arsenal Assault. Striga is now villain Co-Op bunch of new arcs and content on Striga. HUGE number of tweaks. Including Telekinesis, something that's been needed for a long time in my personal opinion, the target cap dropping to 5 without changing the end cost has made it kinda broken ever since ED hit. The new Telekinesis is completely different: Mind Control/Telekinesis: No longer holds Now Immobilizes Target cap increased to 16 Radius increased to 20' Will now keep the targets between 40 and 60 feet from the player Will group enemies close to the main target (i.e. "reverse repel" or "pull towards"). Toggle now lasts a max of 30s before auto-shutdown I'm not exactly sure how I feel about the change yet, but as it pulls mobs together into a clump and provides an immob effect it and maintains distance? Umm. That sounds interesting. And would give mind a unique positioning control +immob. Need to see how it plays, if it's still the same end cost. I don't know. It sounds like you can sort of move the clumped up spawn? Anyway, a LOT to read through and discuss! Feel free to post things you flagged on in the patch notes below. I haven't finished reading it myself, just got to the TK change...

🙂 it’s like a tiny little Christmas when you suddenly have an extra slot in a super tight build! What do you think of swapping Gale out for O2 Boost to hold Pev Med +absorb? Do you use Gale at all? Not sure if it’s useful or not, maybe as a quick counter to Pet KB effects. I’m guessing not that, as you have KB - KD slotted to prevent most of Pet KB. And of course casting Lightning Storm up high helps there if needed. I often use it to help watch my back for the odd boss that hovers at the edge of Hurricane (if it’s running). Endurance use is the main thing I would worry about. So many pet/pseudo pet summons with all that recharge. I assume the +5 End from Atlas is a must…

After playing Illusion/Dark for a bit I'm thinking more and more about Illusion/Storm. Seems like a really good pairing. Psyonico, I pulled up your Havok Crier build, as I kind of agree that Waterspout is just a natural fit. I really like the build. 🙂 Kneejerk reaction, I wanted to proc out Blind for more ST damage that I control directly, but that's not compatible with Spiritual Alpha. Took me a sec, but I see the point. One question I had with Waterspout slotting though: You have a Sudden Accel KB -> KD. Waterspout doesn't really need it in my experience, as it just does knock up? Am I missing something like I almost did on Blind? I'm not an Illusion specialist, and haven't really played with Group Invis. I love the non-suppressing nature of Superior Invis, does Group Invis do the same? Anyway, the idea of Illusion/Storm is growing on me, appreciate all the recent discussion about it!

Can't wait! Gratz to all! 🙂

And yes, clumping them up together magnifies the damage considerably. This is why I always corner pull into a slow/-res patch whenever possible then lock them in place with AOE immob. Plant Storm can use Snowstorm on a front mob from quite a distance away and pull them into Freezing Rain. Use herdicaning techniques to pack them in even tighter after you Root them in place. 🙂

So I created both. Ice/Dark: Mab Air and Darkness <- couldn’t fit QUEEN of Air and Datkness And Illusion/Dark: Carnival ReforMage Got Mab to 10, generic controller feel. Arctic Air may make it feel unique once it matures. Got CR to 19. absurdly OP doing +2/+3 x1 spawns. Superior invis NOT suppressing is insanely powerful with Deceive. I don’t think I have died even once. 5 LotGs will be stupidly easy with Superior Invis + Fade + Shadowfall + Hover + Evasive Maneuvers. Not sure what the final build will look like, but don’t need that many powers to be OP. Great single target attack chain with Flash, Spectral Wounds, and Arcane Blast.

Plant/Storm rocks. Veridicane is in every list of effective builds for me. Sooooo many pseudopets! I still remember the first time I got blinded by a Night Widow and just sort of shrugged and kept on throwing out pseudo pets until I could see again. "The end issue is strong with this one" though as mentioned above. Great fun to play and gets very strong once you start getting the storm damage pseudopets. Goes really well with hibernate (as Carnifax mentioned), I kind of like grabbing ALL the aggro, then turtling up in hibernate while my "pets" tears the spawn apart and the mobs waste attacks on my BLOCK of ICE.

I do the same filling in the attack chain in the early levels, except without the Taser, never tried it, I suppose maybe I should. 🙂 I'm trying to branch out more, and playing Fire/TA/Stone has bit of a tanky feel, kind of a fast paced somewhat squishy resistance based Tank experience. Dark/Dark can feel a bit like a def based tanker set once you start getting sets in place. I'm guessing at the experience based on playing sets with a lot of pseudo pets. I can completely see the durability overkill, now that you all mentioned it. I hadn't really thought about it that way though, so I greatly appreciate the perspective! I suppose it might be interesting just from a sort of exploring the spectrum kind of way. I imagine fights with Carnies can get visually complex with all the Illusion pets flying around. I'd probably be tempted towards Ill/Dark/Soul both for thematic purposes and AOE damage options. Plus I like Fortunata most of the patron pet options. I suppose I'd probably need to build Howling Twilight with a -regen focus as A/Vs seem like a potential end game occupation. Ill/Rad is still effective at that I imagine. I think my last Ice/ was a Dominator? It's been a REALLY long time. I'm sort of interested to see how well all the -Rech works as soft control.

Fortunata has a good AI and power set compliment, she hangs back and snipes to watch your back. If you can help her with recovery she gets much better. Soul Drain is excellent for certain builds and almost all the powers have a damage component so they can be excellent dmg proc holders. I think the armor covers 4 damage types resistance wise. It’s decent, and gives a place to slot the +def uniques. Coralax is ok if you have the mitigation to keep him alive. Waterspout is EXCELLENT (5 pack of Posi Blast and a FF +rech on the way up) , Hibernate is great for builds with lots of pets/pseudo pets or endurance issues, Armor is decent and pairs well with purple sets to give you strong smash lethal and Cold resistance IIRC.

I'm still having plenty of fun with my Fire/TA, and will likely continue on with it for quite some time, but I know my altitis will inevitably flare up again. What do you all think of Illusion/Dark vs Cold/Dark for a next alt? I'm probably going to do those primaries next, and I have good rough character conceptions for both. Both primaries are classic sets that I haven't played to any meaningful extent in decades. I heard Ice/ got buffed? What changed? Anyway, just post audit week weekend wonderings. 🙂

This. Perfectly phrased. Fire is an AOE specialist. Enough control to fill the basic requirements, but with AOE damage as a "soft" control. In a build, I feel you should always play to the particular strengths of the power sets, though there are generally more and less subtle strengths depending on the set. In soloing, the game HEAVILY rewards large spawn sizes. It is possible to go too far towards pure damage, as you need strong mitigation to survive those large spawns, as any Blaster knows. 🙂But in addition to the mitigation requirement is the inescapable need to do enough AOE damage to take down the spawn at a reasonable speed. Fire comes with the latter out of the box. Plant does too, with the advantage that the damage from confusion scales with the spawn.