Dismiss
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I just bid 70 mln on a stack of 10 enhancement converters. And I clicked twice. 1.4 bln gone. I hope someone enjoys it.
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I posted about a pylon simulator that I am coding here:
I'm trying to check for accuracy right now, so if anyone has a lot of time for a given build (hopefully 10+) please give the post a read and get in touch with me.
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Before anyone gets too excited, I'd say this is at an alpha level stage. I have a lot going on in my personal life right now, so I doubt this will be ready any time soon.
I'm trying to make a pylon simulator to make testing ideas easier. It's a lot easier to draw a solid conclusion with 3000 actual runs than a couple times that are subject to a lot of variance. Basically the program right now lets you set up the skills you're using (only care about anything with offensive ability here as I don't model incoming damage), define how you prioritize your attach chain, and then runs a sim to graph a PDF and CDF of the Monte Carlo run.
Where I've gotten so far is thanks to @modest, @Bopper and @RubyRed.
I think I have most of the basic sets working okay for the melee classes, but don't have data to test yet. By basic I mean ones without power redirect (like Titan Weapons with different animation times) or psuedo pets. I have handled some specific cases of these, but want to rework how I'm doing that to hopefully make it more generic and save me time in the future. I think it's possible basic sets for ranged classes would work fine too.
There is something I would love help with to know I'm headed the right direction: data.
Specifically, I need actual pylon times for some more sets. I don't have a lot of time to do the coding, so it would be very helpful to farm that out.
So far, with Modest's help, we have lined out a Rad/claws tanker (in the gif), Fire/shield scrapper and savage melee/energy aura Stalker.
What I'm looking for is this:
- data from melee ATs (and possibly blaster/defender too)
- the mids file for the build
- 10+ pylon times are really needed for me to judge if my results look good or not
- the only Destiny I have modeled right now is Ageless T4, although I could model lower tiers. If you are using clarion +special for shenanigans, that will have to come later.
- nothing other than assault hybrid. I strongly prefer if it's left on passive for the runs, because I haven't modeled active Assault yet, but if you already have a set of times with it active, it could be done.
If you have the above, you can post it here or I'm happy to talk you on discord at Dismiss#5787.
If there is someone interested in helping code this, I'm open to it since it's a lot for one person, but you'd need to be familiar with JavaScript. Warning: I am not a programmer by trade, so if you are and want to help.... I'm sorry, I'm sure there is stuff that is not proper.
@UberGuy I've also heard you've updated Ruby's API for the latest versions for your cityofdata site, so I'd love to talk to you about that too.
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On 5/27/2020 at 5:44 PM, Werner said:
Yeah, personal test only. I made my own AVs with no resistances or debuff resistances. They did accidentally have to-hit debuffs, and I'd initially used Nictus Romulus, so they had Cimerorans with them so there were defense debuffs as well, but I didn't bother tweaking further. I put it together quickly for me personally and specifically for my Katana/Dark Brute. I probably spent 40+ hours trying to find the best combination of attacks, the order in which to make those attacks, how best to slot and proc those attacks, which incarnate powers to use, and so on. Then once I finished the respec on live, I switched to my DM/SR Brute and have been playing him instead mostly, trying to finish up his incarnates.
Yes, please! I'd tell it 100 billion hit points, no regeneration, no resistance, and see how many years that took. Convert to sustained DPS. Emphasis on sustained. 😉
I'm the one coding the simulation. My ideal outcome in the end is that you can basically specify exactly what the target is and simulate against that. That's probably a long way off as my initial goal for a beta is to just get the melee classes in against a pylon. It's a crazy amount of stuff to code and I'm the only one doing the coding (although Bopper understates his help). Without him, @modest and @RubyRed's help I would have given up a while ago. I can't make any promises as to timelines, but I'm doing what I can as I get time to work.
Right now I need to iron out some weird things happening with debuffs (I think), code in psi melee, street justice, dual blades and titan weapon special mechanics, brute's fury and then... basically the whole UI. So it's not going to be soon....
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To add to the fun:
Rad/claws tanker.
T4 Reactive Radial
T4 Ageless Radial
T4 Assault - not clicked
Recovery serum was used. Chain was Follow Up, Slash, Gloom, Focus. Interject Radiation Therapy when cooled down.
3:16
I think I got lucky with some procs on this one.
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Question on if I'm just stupid or if the information isn't there. I'm trying to figure out the details of the interface incarnate procs, but I see no damage/frequency when I look through the data. Am I missing it or is it somewhere else? I'm thinking I'm just dumb and I'm missing something. I found the duration, but that's all.
Appreciate this info, super useful for the project I'm working on.
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2 hours ago, Maxzero said:
As a MM I can still cobble together an attacking chain from Patron Pools, Anc Pools and the odd MM attack. All while pets are putting put a solid 200+ DPS independently from me.
Honestly a Demon/Storm or Thug/Storm can cross a 1000 DPS on a pylon fairly easily. I have just been too busy with other games to make a video and now I can't.
Honestly it's not even close on ST DPS anymore anything MM/Storm is number 1.
At work but I will post my latest setup that uses Burnout for a double Gang War, Lightning Storm and Tornado start. Could probably drop a pylon in 30 seconds.
How does pets accuracy play into this? I'm not familiar with MMs. Do the pets get a level shift? I know pylons con at +2, so are they as effective against +4 targets?
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I've built the basics of a Monte Carlo simulation of Pylon runs due to wanting to get some practice with Object Oriented Programming and JavaScript.
It currently handles dynamically calculated buffs (e.g. hastens impact on cooldowns and impact of any down time), Pylon's regeneration, buff procs (e.g. Critical Strikes), damage procs and hit calculations. It takes a defined attack chain with the user inputting the enhancement values in each power and defined set of other buffs to cast (e.g. Hasten, build up) and runs 5k iterations to generate a probability density function like so:
I'm debating if there's enough interest for me to finish this, since there's still a significant amount of work to do (handling debuffs, handling sets that have special mechanics like Street Justice, adding incarnate powers (ageless is of particular importance and the entire UI). I know I would find it useful for testing different builds I come up with to see the impact on P10,50,90 outcomes and compare means and standard deviations. I'm thinking about some way to save and overlay runs so you can visually compare.
Would people be interested in this?
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3 minutes ago, molten_dragon said:
What's your ST attack chain? GFS > Incinerate > Cremate? Does that still work even when hasten is down?
Kind of surprised that's sustainable END-wise, I remember that attack chain being a real END hog, but if it is kudos.
Yes. It has a short gap (.686 seconds) while hasten is down, but 9 seconds of downtime isn't a big deal there.
Fire is not very intense on end.
The build has 3.72 end per use from Incinerate, 5.38 from Cremate, and 8.01 from GFS. That's a total of 17.11 end over a cast time of 6.072 seconds with Aracanatime factored in.
So, ~2.82 end/sec from the attack chain. The build uses 1.19/sec in toggles giving you a total drain of 4.01end/sec. Panacea and Performance shifter procs are worth .6875 end/sec with Atlas Medallion and Portal Jockey (I usually count these because they are so easy to get - although in this case I think you may be okay without them too) giving the build a total recovery of 4.09 end/sec. Should be good to go. The end discount bonuses on some of the new sets (in this build 5 piece Reactive Defenses) should not be overlooked.
Sure, you can solve the end problem with ageless destiny, but I had enough recharge and this lets me take Rebirth Radial for healing and regen which is something shield lacks.
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Here's my fire/shield build. It can run the single target attack chain indefinitely. Hasten has 9 second downtime, but that's not a big deal. I also took Mu for more AOE. You will burn through endurance AOE, but you can always use that serum temp power.
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Reborn to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1535;714;1428;HEX;| |78DA6594496F525114C7EF1B10A18CA52D1D053ADBDA57E8601C625C586B3A90342| |17167EA2BDCC2B38412C04497266AA2EEDCB834C6951B3F801FC1A9267E05176E3A| |C421D568C5C3FB1F90C84BC9EFDCFFBDE7DC73CEBDB7C95B0B9E9757EE5C148AEF5| |2DE2C97D753E992592CCA92236966ADB4A87D4EFAF5D6F5F5A4CC4B692C5AB2741B| |76A431B5203765A12C8D54CE92F94C7D185C2AE46449162A46DD70AF6D6FE78D545| |1CA8CC73657A559B40A59AF3D58B4B2B90A8DFCF5A98C2C957356317CB968A58D54| |C5CC6FD5D2B8B99E34CB15CAA29BD29BA4DF5DA7E0AF4A7FF409B797068AADE8224| |CC6802ED4434D8804F107A87F677E03EF5114053E0E45EAB6762C031EBFCE3441F7| |06330D0E91AF860C14CDA5C2D7097A281707C775EC62AFC067B07D5E01E7C08E383| |3010E525C277C1567ADD4844B04985E8AEBE239176B5D369DA28BFCDA30A7B67522| |56F791B0FB10ED50EC356DE4EFE51E79794DD70AF2EA5E027B1799CBA08F7CFC769| |3AAC21FC39E0F68AF206A77042FA0E6FE33E089B3CC73CCF360744FB573F153BC10| |721021CE41A1789D7C9A9DF6696AA484B14A0BF3E945F9F4623F997C8A0F696D0F6| |7D3B325703A3790E9D026330B7D38C7B4A0DF27DF3EF86A7D4FB9921760EC1938FC| |1CD469ED00776FE02BF61EFD028EED31F7C1E903CDEEF823F289706E911D5EF31E3| |CF99AF986F9169C780706A95383EC3B2878EE177299A882A77E338F987FC04FB47C| |04BEEAC80E6A1EFDC0FC081E7A8418C71A7DFC34FCA6E69933CC59707A0E0C523D9| |3DC83493EBDE90E3011608698ED7CD3A90E834FD798E1D7405A9C6F419CE3F4EBFF| |BFE988DE78D3D58996D9788B926851665B94B91665B54559D3795B52145B71051AA| |FBDBAEB6EFCD710CA147AB9FF4F5395ABA8C71343AD9E651A8FE962AFD96F1C7E07| |CD7E4FD063DF63D5BE9BBE28EEE886BBF6DEB1B7D9645F6BB2D79AEC577469129CE| |B4A886CD6FF0299AAFF26| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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Cytoskeletons don't boost the DDR from Active Defense anymore. I'm not sure if that was an i24 or i25 change though.
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1 hour ago, Kruunch said:
Just a point of clarification, if you run Hasten you only need one recharge in Active Defense (and make sure Active Defense is on auto-toggle).
Active Defense stacks with itself. That's not a big deal for the mez portion, but the extra DDR from 2 stacks of Active Defense can be very good. With double stack and ageless you can get close to 100% DDR with shield
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On a similar note, True Grit - resistance or heal sets?
I typically do 2 piece Preventive Medicine (Heal and Heal/End) for the s/l bonus and +5 each of them. The other 4 go to resistance set. It's not the most health you could squeeze out of it, but shield can get good resists if you push it, and True Grit is one source of that.
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I would add that adding a bit of defense benefits a resist set a lot more than adding a bit of resist does to a defense set.
The problem with this claim is it ignores the extreme amounts of defense debuff that are in the game. 20% defense might as well be 0% in high level content. On the other hand, the defense capped character is dodging all the debuffs. That's one thing most people tend to ignore in this comparison.
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Yes, a set that is capped to defense with higher resist obviously is tougher than one with lower resist. I don't have a problem with this claim.
The post I had a problem with was this one:
What are you giving up to reach softcap defense? Especially when you don't have to work as hard to use IO sets to reach your resist caps, that leaves a lot of room for extra defense set bonuses. I'm not sure what you're getting at, what is your example of this or is it just a 'feeling' you have?That implies you can get everything with a resist set. I showed you must give something up like recharge, because you demanded an example. That's my only point. There are trade offs. I'm not saying one is better than the other. I will say my preference is for a hybrid defense set because I prefer as aggressive attack chains as possible. A hybrid set makes this possible. I can't achieve my personal goals (I solo a lot) of s/l/e/n defense 45% on a set like electric armor on a primary that requires aggressive (or even moderate in a lot of cases) recharge. Maybe I just suck at making builds, but I don't think that's the case.
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The optimal attack chain on War Mace if you have sufficient recharge is Clobber, Shatter, Jawbreaker. As Stara says, put the Fury of the Gladiator -res proc in Shatter for this chain.
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You definitely have a point on a brute or tanker, but I think this is much less true on scrapper, where resists caps at 75%. Getting to 45% defense is just far, far more valuable than 75% resist. A hybrid set like shield or invuln will do both easily. Shield probably won't hit resist cap, but it has the DDR to actually maintain its defense under fire unlike most resist sets.
Pure resist sets must give up something on a scrapper to achieve high defense levels. This may match someones preferences, but I don't think pure toughness is why most people are playing scrapper (see the number of TW/Bio's running around). Preference on how to build is definitely a matter of opinion, but it's not correct to say you can everything without any trade offs in another part of the build.
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Thanks for the build. I like it, but I think it highlights what I'm talking about. There are always trade offs. The claim I had a problem with was that resist armors could do everything.
You even highlight the trade off you made, e/n defense. (due to the amount of non-positional psi, I don't consider that positional defense has a huge advantage there). Energy defense is a lot bigger deal than it used to be with the increasing amount of praetorian content. The shield build I posted will take far less damage from energy attacks. The 120s duration -def debuff from ageless is also only 21.25%. I think most of the pure energy damage in praetorian content is also ranged, so melee doesn't help much there.
Stara implied resists sets could achieve defense caps without any attack chain trade offs. My position was that there would be a trade off. Here if we consider s/l/e/n capped as equivalent to capped positional, there is still clearly a trade off. That doesn't make one wrong or right. It depends on personal preference and what you want to do. This is good game design.
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Does anyone have a recommendation for the hybrid incarnate slot on illusion/dark?
Does assault buff my pets (other than Phantom army)? I'm not seeing anything that stands out right away. Surviving is not a problem at all, even against exotic damage types. If Assault only buffs me, it doesn't seem like it would really be that much of a damage increase.
Thanks for the help.
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I really don't get why we need examples. If there were no tradeoffs, everyone would be using resist armors, but that's not what happens.
Here's an example anyway:
Here's my fire shield scrapper. It runs Cremate, Incinerate, GFS with no gaps. It has 45% to all positions.
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Reborn to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1535;707;1414;HEX;| |78DA65944B6F125114C7EFC020427996B6F485409F08760A7D181F312EAC357D903| |4217167700AB73096500298E8D2444DD49D1B97C6B872E3DAF8117CD5C4AFE0C24D| |5BE323D568C5D3F91F90C884C9EFDCFFBDE7DC73EEB943FAC682EBF9A55BE785E2B| |950D26BB56C2657D52B1559B5A5F5829113878F9DDEC1A69E4DCB9294DAA221AB37| |61875B530B7243966B52CB140D59CA3787FEA572515665B9AE350DE7DAD65649CB5| |4A4CCBB4C7355EA15A35C709B8345A350ACD3C8DB9CCACB6AAD685482172B464ECB| |D4F5D2E6611AD7B369BD56A72CFA29BD04BDB7ED829F06FDE8114E370D145351459| |08C902A2CFB562152C41FA0FA9DF90DBC435114F8D814A99ADA913C78F42A53079D| |EBCC1C384ABE5664A0581D16F8DA4117E562E3B8B61DECE5FB0476CF2BE01CD8936| |4A6C0118A6B87AF623F2C35E5103EA69BE23A78CEC15A5F93E4D785394B572F62F5| |1F08F31C223D187791BF9BCFC8CD6BFA569057FF1238B8C85C063DE4E3350FA921B| |C51EC758FF6F2A3769BFF1C6A1E3E051E3BCD3CC33C0B4604E279295E00398800E7| |A050BC5EEE66AFD94D2B2941ACB206B97B11EE5EF42793BB789FD60E7036039B02D| |DB9864C47379805E86345A601FD2EF90EC1D73AF4982B7906469F80634F4195D686| |38A7D057EC3DF1059CDC65EE810F686D98730A6FF3DC3BF0F82BE66BE61B30FE16F| |4D3098DB0EF089F5AFC17728837C013BF9907CC3FE0475A3E0E5FCBF8366A9D78CF| |FC00EEBB848871FCD849F84DCD336798B3E0F41CF3057CFD5457826F5082BB37CDB| |72BE5630698DD7CD3A91E8DBBABCDF0D7405A926F4192E30CABFF7FD361B5F54D37| |E21DB3C90E25D5A1CC7628731DCA6A87B2A6F2B6A428A6E2F0B5BEF6C68EB3F5AF2| |194299CCBDE3FCDA25C463DAE286A752DD3785215BBED7E31F87D6EF77B84B3F63C| |B49877D313C11D5D779A99997BEB6DF695367BADCD7E499727C5F64A806C3EC1BFF| |470FE0A| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
This is an electric armor. I used that to give it a good shot of running the attack chain due to inherent recharge, but it still has a gap in the Cremate, Incinerate, GFS chain and should probably add fire sword or scorch to maximize damage, but I haven't done the math (the last two slots could do there to boost that attacks accuracy if so).
This build has to use barrier to get to 45% s/l and, unfortunately, only 40% e/n defense. Unfortunately, we also had to drop ball lightning since it wasn't able to help fill the e/n defense needs.
Anyway, the point is, the build obviously has trade-offs. That's not to say it is worse or better, it's that you can't get everything with any given build. That's by design and it's good design! It would be boring if you could and we would all be using the same build.
If you can figure out a way to s/l/e/n cap this build without a gap in Cremate, Incinerate, GFS please let me know, I'd welcome the input. It would be great if ball lightning was still available too.
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Reborn to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1525;715;1430;HEX;| |78DA65944D6F12511486EF0C830885165A5A0A6DA1403F686BA7A06E8D31B635DA3| |64149DC993A9DDE96510432B0D0A5899AA85113372E6BE3CA8D3FC09FE0E74FD0A5| |B19F5AB78AA773DE521226C07338F79CF7BC7798CBD2DD59FFBB4BF7CF0BA5F362C| |9A8D5960BA66D54ABD2762F19EB96290E2F0FBD6347F9E5255992529FB7A47D8FE3| |44736956AEC9724DEA732569D66DCB5CBE60DFA9D8A1CBE5A2B465B9AE1F05BE7CA| |552D20B552957FD4EB8288DAA555E0F385FE6ADF5629DBE751D2DAD4ABB56B4AAD1| |B9AA65EA85BA51BA7D68C330257DD4EAE4A39F0C4ED1FB8147E06AA8E2834B889C2| |64E7C66767E616E076859716A3411A16048136A8A384E8C33B52498603E245D857B| |DC8AD458779579F22668307D2BA0C94C53AF8B3D0997577572BBE4C1CD7A2E37660| |6E1A11BB3BB313B45FD1EAE553C879BCC794510DC231D2F74BCE8EF835E0C3A31E8| |F4914E07D7AA1DBD8AE3A3FFAF70F63FBDC0F76687F402A809ECA8BCB6CD9CD962E| |E534D17667661661833C39895C3ECC73433C47B7787A03708BD38F4E20DBE27F17F| |CCE173CC5F34A707737AB6D95FFF1673E62733F783A9D09C5E9EE3EACD13529A387| |515BC0616982EAA8D403702FFC3F09F84EF24F6F1846AA3F01F856E1ABA69E8A6A1| |3B724B385E462CE623EA1D80A7810DDED3E05B66729339F286A951ED103C0DE1B71| |9DBE5BD8DEF8107CCA7549B605D2DF1156B9F98131F4178995C631ED0BD4C390F7D| |434D3DE399932FC0E7CC6FD43A8AB333BAC97D63AFC10DE677AAC9A026839A09AC4| |DA33644FEA6F00C4D612F3361662EC8FC437E749C09FD347BFE4DB92CF789EC346B| |0D6ACDF34C2FBA44426B9EDEC664DB6AB62D936BCB9C69CB9C6DCB2CB665F21AC65| |2467132DE60F35C37767CCDFF07A1C0FBDE714E55AEF3BEFD49DEABFF0A3F5FBBAD| |7D19EEDB3FCE29CA2BFE6D3A5FAACE795FF1398E9C99464B7CA325CEB7C4EF53D48| |678A18762DCB9FF3D0FFA59| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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Recharge to enable a more optimal attack chain.
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This decision shouldn't be made in a vacuum.
Certainly you could take electric armor and try to cap s/l/e/n defense, but you will be trading off a LOT to do so. Especially for scrappers where resist cap is 75%, pure resist sets generally come with a big trade off to get to defense caps. Scrappers tend to prefer hybrid type ones if you are min maxing. By that I mean something like Shield or Invuln, where you can more easily hit defense caps (Invuln starts at 8.3% defense s/l/e/n without weave or maneuvers) and still maintain high levels of resist while keeping a good attack chain and damage, which is the most important part for a scrapper. If you only care about defensive ability, play a tanker!
This also tends to be the logic behind sets like super reflexes. Yes, you can get unlucky and die, but, especially with the built in recharge bonus, it lets you be very aggressive offensively, because so few slots are needed to dedicate to defense.
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If you're asking about my build, no. This is a pretty min max build. Maneuvers can be dropped, but you'll have to drop a lot of recharge for it, or drop musculature for agility. That comes at the cost of damage.
If you want a cheap, easy to cap SD, you can use maneuvers and agility to easily hit defense caps. You should still do fine damage, but don't expect to be getting the fastest plyon kill time ever or solo things with great speed. Musculature is a pretty good boost in damage.
That said, you can also run a sub-optimal attack chain (in fire's case it means you add in fire sword) and then your recharge requirement drops a lot. All you really need on shield is to keep active defense from dropping.
This is a long winded way of saying: you can make cheap /SD builds. I didn't take that route.
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I hope most people know this, but I've seen some bad advice a few times, so I want to post just in case.
I have seen a few instances of people telling others to attune sets that max out below 50 to increase their bonuses. I know why they suggest this, because if you attune the IO, the numbers go up.
However, if you look at the power, or the combat attributes, there is no actual gain beyond the max level the set can normally go to.
You can verify this yourself on the beta server easily by tracking say, s/l resist. Add a level 40 reactive armor set and note the s/l resist. Then, attune the reactive armor set. Your characters total s/l resist will stay the same.
Please be aware that the number on the IO itself is misleading. If you attune it, it goes up, but it is NOT actually providing the increased benefit.
Focused Feedback: Epic / Ancillary Power Pools
in [Open Beta] Focused Feedback
Posted
You can have a thematic and good character. Just like I can always play builds that do +4/x8 with ease without ruining anyone's fun. Let's not pretend you can tell in a 8 player ITF that someone has min-maxed their build.
The direction Homecoming has taken the game between the various 'fixes' and balancing makes me not want to play. That's not a good outcome since they could have kept players like me interested and kept people who are more into thematic builds. There's room for both in CoX.