scottocamp

Wednesday at 12:03 AM

I would also love to know what the remaining Incarnate powers were going to be.

Thank you for the best game ever designed!

February 28

Here is a data chunk for my Symphony / Sonic controller. I ended up using a lot of procs as that seemed to work well for Symphony. I do use the Sonic Barrier and Sonic Haven shields on the Reverberant pet and they seem to help. But I often forget to refresh. I'm not sure the Disruption Field is all that impactful on the Reverberant. And I can't say I really understand what the Reverberant pet is doing to help me but I certainly do better with the pet than without. No clue if my slotting on the Reverberant is any good. I mostly just hover at a distance and spam cone attacks after laying down Liquefy. The cones are all quite good but there are clear advantages to using the cones in a particular order. Like Liquefy, then some sort of containment then Confounding Chant and then mopping up with Energy Torrent or Dreadful Discord is a good progression. Liquefy is now up much faster than Mids is indicating. For single target, Hymn of Dissonance and Impassioned Serenade are both solid but the set seems ultimately better at AOE. Not great defense but there is a ton of controls which largely keep you safe. And a lot of -tohit in Liquefy. I skipped Sonic Siphon just because I never seemed to use it. The two powersets seem to go well together in the sense that Symphony needs a lot of slots and Sonic hardly needs any. Power Boost seems helpful. Increasing your range is exceptionally helpful.

Bottom line - not my most elegant build but it has worked well for me. Just ran a couple of missions against the newly refurbished Council at +4/8 and the build did very well. But again - you can't just leap right in. You need to stay back and run your cones in a specific order to be most effective. And I'm basically only using two Sonic powers while solo (Liquefy and Sonic Dispersion) which is kind of odd. It is an unusual toon for me to play as it creates a lot of perceived chaos while still doing quite a bit of damage.

Hope this helps!!

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February 14

On 2/8/2024 at 9:28 AM, The Curator said:

This should create more diverse and viable build options available to players instead of them feeling funneled towards the “best” ones even if it is against their chosen theme.

With regard to the Epic Power Pool adjustments - I believe your philosophy and intent are absolutely correct. But the solution being implemented (lengthening recharge times, increasing endurance costs, etc.) will only serve to push players more strongly toward already established secondary options like Hasten, Tough, Weave, (Kick or Boxing) Combat Jumping, Hover, Maneuvers & Tactics. Which will create less rather than more diverse build options. I doubt there is any willingness to reduce the effectiveness of these core Pool Powers as that would disrupt every build. So a player with 24 power choices will now pick 15 or 16 primary and secondary powers, 7 or 8 of the core Pool Powers mentioned and maybe 1 or 2 Epic Powers like a shield toggle. The rest of these Epic Powers (which number in the hundreds) will be largely ignored.

The "power creep" baseline is already established with powers like Hasten and Weave. Without changing those powers, the only real option to move players toward more diverse builds would be to make Epic Powers nearly as attractive. Moving a power choice from Weave to an equally decent Epic Power doesn't make the build any more over-powered than it already is. But reducing the appeal of Epic Powers will absolutely ensure no one considers not choosing Weave or Hasten or Tactics nearly all the time.

Your solution is working directly against your stated goal of not making players feel "funneled toward the best" option.

February 9

If a couple of epic powers (like sleet) need to be adjusted downward - have at it.

But what is the justification to balance downward powers that few if any players make use of now?

Shouldn't balancing imply that you also enhance the powers that are under-utilized while diminishing the powers that are over-utilized?

Making unappealing powers even less appealing seems like a lot of effort without any benefit to the game.

January 31

I am profoundly grateful this game still exists for me to enjoy. And I greatly appreciate the efforts of the extremely talented HC team running this game and moving it forward.

My concern, however, is that the HC team seems focused almost exclusively on “balance” issues. To a degree that at times feels like they are balancing the life out of the game. Offering a reward for a balanced team composition, balancing villain groups to make sure all are equally powered, only introducing new power sets or enhancement recipes that are middle of the road, making sure all epic powers are equally lackluster, reducing the effectiveness of oddball powers like Bonfire, and so on. After every update the game seems a lot more balanced and little bit less fun.

Adding a bunch of new epic powers that are all largely skippable just so Masterminds can now have access to Dark powers and Scrappers can now have access to Ice powers making everything more symmetrical just seems rather pointless. Why add powers no one is probably ever going to use? Symmetry just for the sake of symmetry doesn't really add anything to the game.

I have no issue with focusing on balance. It always needs to be considered. But the game is largely self-balancing simply because every hero or villain is limited to 24 powers and a fixed number of enhancements. Choosing an epic power largely means not choosing a very good primary or secondary power. So why not make the epic powers something more than skippable filler?

My big picture feedback would be to occasionally consider what makes the game enjoyable to play rather than always just focusing on balance. City of Heroes has always been fun (to me at least) because it seems so wacky and wild and unbalanced. I play because of powers like Bonfire. More Battle Axe vortex powers and fewer comically bland powers with impossibly long recharge times would go a long way to keeping that wacky spirit alive.

January 25

35 minutes ago, arcane said:

You’re acting like this pressing issue will come up every TF. Remember: it’s one a day. People worth teaming with are going to be flexible and not demanding to do this every round.

That is your argument in favor of this mechanic? That there won't be problems all the time?

January 24

37 minutes ago, psylum1 said:

I make my intentions clear all the time and if that's not what another player wants they can grin and bare it or drop the team.

At present it is not usually that complicated to form a team. With this mechanic I can imagine evenings where the first four folks I invite turn out to be blasters. Then the next couple of people decide to drop once they realize they won't get the $3 million bonus. Or there is a debate about making the blasters switch AT's. And maybe the blasters don't want to do that. Or maybe they do and then we all have to wait for three of them to switch. Or half the team wants the $3 million and the other half just want to get going and not wait. Or I have to now recruit for a TinPex where there will be no bonus because we already have four blasters and that drags out recruitment. Or I can boot a couple of the blasters who joined first and try to fill the team with different AT's. And meanwhile there is grumblings all about. None of this sounds more fun to me as team leader. Without this mechanic we could already be on our way to finishing the Tinpex. Instead I am dealing with stuff I don't really want to be dealing with.

Again - it just seems like an unnecessary mechanic that will discourage even more people from leading teams. Not the end of the world. But also not an improvement.

January 24

2 minutes ago, arcane said:

Good news. If you’re the team leader, you have all the power and can play how you want.

Perhaps you run missions differently - but I try not to be dismissive of the requests people present when offering to join a team. If folks want to go for a badge, then we try for the badge. That sort of stuff. This adds another layer of complexity to all that. Which will certainly make the experience of leading a team more difficult - at least for me.

January 24

As someone who tries to lead at least one team event each evening (usually a TinPex or weekly) - this just seems to add another, admittedly small, level of complexity and perhaps stress to the whole process of recruiting and filling a team and trying to deal with folks who can already be a bit demonstrative in expressing themselves even without an additional 3 million at stake. It almost seems like a small punishment for those attempting to lead a team. I would gladly *pay* an Aether just to not deal with a mechanic that complicates the recruitment of players.

January 17

On 1/7/2024 at 2:14 AM, N X S said:

Heya! Great to see familiar names; welcome!

My global is @S o l a r i s. I mainly played a firekin Controller and a Warshade, Shadow - Nexus.
Pic provided by Void Devil.

Wow - my main Mallard Duck is in this wonderful photo!! This makes me so happy to see!! I am terrible with names but certainly remember kind folks like Hopper, Ironblade,Turbo & Solaris helping me along. I believe this was a group event as the game was shutting down to recognize the greatness of Infinity!

Thank you so much for posting this! Such good times.

Mallard Duck and the mighty hero birds of F.O.W.L. are now on Excelsior

September 1, 2023

I am going to wholeheartedly agree that for a Dominator in melee range, World of Confusion is a wonderful power. Though I always 6 slot the power. While it can take a minute to kick in, once it does the contagious confusion can spread well beyond the range of the power. I am frequently shocked to see the entire mob surrounding my character confused.

I would not depend on just this one power for my survival but it is wildly effective at confusing mobs. Without domination, without a character that exists in the middle of a mob and without some investment in slotting (particularly the contagious proc) - then I can see how it would be underwhelming. Some sort of boost to secondary effects (like Power Up in Earth Assault) is also helpful. But regardless, it is absolutely not a crap power for Dominators.

December 21, 2022

Does anyone know if slotting range enhancements in the reverberant pet actually increases the range of the reverberant attacks or just increases the range at which you can cast the pet?

Thanks!!

November 12, 2022

2 hours ago, Ironblade said:

But this isn't how the game actually is, so it's a nonsensical hypothetical. There ARE other players in the game and there is constant market activity.

You conflate the terms wealth and money here, but they are not the same thing. I can have a base full of purples, ATO's, etc or I can have a few billion influence. Either way, I have considerable wealth. The only differences are liquidity and that the enhancements fluctuate in value. It's rather like the difference between owning cash and owning shares of stock.

If you converted a one million influence enhancement into a five million influence enhancement - it would seem like you have added four million in value/wealth/influence to the game at large. And that would be true if you could sell the upgraded crafted enhancement to a game vendor for five million influence. But you can't. You can only sell that upgraded enhancement to another player. So you are not adding value/wealth/influence to the game at large. You are simply transferring *existing* value/wealth/influence from another player to you if you sell that enhancement at the auction house. The auction house moves existing money around. Nothing more really.

Certainly a base full of purples is equivalent to influence with an active economy. But upgrading an enhancement does not add anything to the overall economy. It may make you personally wealthier because another player has chosen to give you their money so that they don't have to bother trying to upgrade enhancements. Running missions, however, does add value/wealth/influence to the game - even if you are the only person playing the game.

Put another way - if everyone did nothing but run missions, the amount of value/wealth/influence in the game would steadily increase. If everyone did nothing but upgrade and sell enhancements at the auction house, influence would move around from player to player but the total value/wealth/influence in the game would not increase. Perhaps all those enhancements eventually end up as nothing but Luck of the Gamblers. Which would seem good but the money available to purchase these enhancements would remain constant. So the total value would remain constant. The latter scenario is a zero sum game.

November 11, 2022

17 hours ago, Ironblade said:

Nope. Your figures leave out the value of the enhancement, which the market determined to be 2 million inf.

First you say, "What you've done is moved some wealth around..." and later "There is actually *less* inf in the game..."

Yes, there is less INF in the game by the end of the exchange, but there is more WEALTH.

Your summary states, "Between them, there is a total of 99,700,000 inf in the game world. 300,000 inf is gone for good."

Absolutely correct, but one of those players also has the enhancement with a market-assigned value of 2 million, so there is more WEALTH.

Ironblade

It seems counter-intuitive but imagine if you were the only player in the game. Converting an enhancement would not affect wealth because there would be no one to purchase the better enhancement. You would have one enhancement in storage and now you would have a different enhancement in storage. The converted enhancement might be more useful to you for your future builds but it would not create more wealth for you (or the game at large).

There are two ways for an individual to acquire personal wealth in CoH. One is to run missions which creates money out of thin air and one is to take money from other players by giving them things they want in exchange. Converting an enhancement will make it easier to acquire / take money from another player - but it doesn't actually add wealth to the overall game. The only wealth being added to the game is the money being created from missions.

That said - for an individual playing the game currently, taking money from other players is a much better return on your time than running missions. But that would change if folks stopped buying enhancements on the market. Which is plausible given how easily recipes drop and how simple it is to convert those recipes to enhancements you wish to use.

October 28, 2022

12 minutes ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

You haven't established there's a reason not to do what "no one is asking for"... Of course, the answer to that is that there's absolutely no reason not to do so. When you're working at that level you're looking at the larger game, and the playerbase as a whole. Being in the top echelons of anything requires a very different outlook than being down in the trenches.

As above, you haven't established that throwing sand in the gears of the process is in any way useful.

I am simply curious as to the process when changes are made to the game that no one seems to be requesting. And curious as to how the community should respond and provide feedback for these unexpected changes. And wondering if changes no one is expecting might benefit from more community input.

Am also not advocating "throwing sand in the gears". Would just like to offer thoughtful feedback prior to the point at which the change is largely considered a done deal. I have no expectation that my feedback will be acted upon or that the process should be a popular vote. Just seems as if the goal is to make the game the best it can be, then engaging the larger community as much as possible in a manner that is acceptable to the developers would be a largely positive approach. Especially for changes no one sees coming. Just a rough idea of what is on the list with absolutely no guarantees would be a nice gesture.

October 28, 2022

3 hours ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

You have no idea what's in any of my builds, nor I suspect what's in the vast majority of the builds out there.

As to how it happens... Based on the discussions in the Beta threads by the various dev's, they identified some holes in what was available to the players and developed sets to help fill those holes and give players some flexibility and opportunities they previously didn't have. (It's usually in the set bonuses or the uniques.) They weren't chosen by random roll, they were specifically designed. Are they for every player or for widespread use? No, some of them are pretty niche.

You're basically asking to be a dev... Which I suspect means you need to demonstrate the as much as possible of the abilities and knowledge required to work at that level. You'll need to participate in the existing (Closed and Open) Beta process and demonstrate an ability to do so usefully.

Fair enough. I don't believe I have ever seen a build posted on this forum that incorporates any of these new travel sets but obviously that doesn't really mean anything. I would be willing to wager however that very few builds make use of these sets despite the effort put into developing them. I have 46 level 50 toons and none of them use any of these enhancements. And I try fairly deliberately to make diverse builds.

My actual point is how does the list of possible game changes get assembled? I completely understand responding to feedback from posts on the forum (i.e. make sentinels better, etc.) but why do something no one is asking for? Is there no way to have input on such decisions prior to work being done without actually being a developer? It seems like some of these decisions just get plucked out of thin air and somewhat blindside the community. Obviously that is not true but wouldn't it make sense to involve the community much earlier in the process regarding what might be on the "list"? Sure, there might be disappointments if items are necessarily removed from the list because they are not possible or worth the effort. But most folks completely understand such restraints.

Since this is no longer a for profit game and the intent is to make the game the best game possible - why not include the community earlier in the development process? If the concern is lots of arguing and community angst, well - that seems to happen currently. The situation might end up being less contentious if the process felt more inclusive.

October 28, 2022

9 hours ago, Cobalt Arachne said:

We use Discord for development because it is the superior choice for quick & efficient discussions and throwing ideas around, it has nothing to do with trying to exclude anybody. Forums are slow, and responses often out of context because of the way they work, it makes our job harder. We also can't ping our testers for focus testing on the forums, as that's just not a feature the forums have.

If the low bar of downloading a free app and joining a server that is open to everyone is too high a hurdle to participate in development discussions at the stage where direction can be influenced, than it feels more to me like the issue is that being involved isn't something that matters enough to the player to make that effort.

The minor effort check is just to ensure people who join are actually are interested in helping discuss and test, and not because they want to tell their friends we're working on <experimental unconfirmed feature> that we never promised anyone anywhere, and then have to deal with people getting upset later when it never comes.

I'm sorry if that reads bluntly, but I just finished explaining earlier in this thread how anybody who wants to have a seat at the table where things get discussed & decided can very easily have one with minimal effort. We've already seen a handful of forum regulars join the test server since I posted just last night, it's not an exclusive club in any capacity, it's a meet-in-the-middle collaboration.

If you want to be involved and influence what we're doing, get involved.

Most welcome!

We're not bad guys, I promise.

We're not trying to ruin your game, we aren't trying to force people into playing anything they don't want. We just want everyone to have a fair and fun experience in the game.
There's a common misconception that nerfs are because we don't want players who like X or Y being too strong, but that's wrong, it's entirely because we don't want players who dislike X or Y to feel pressured into something they don't like because of major balance gaps.

Balance is about ensuring all choices are relatively worthwhile choices so you can pick what you like without regrets.

I'm a member of over 20+ different CoH Discord servers (some anonymously others less anonymously) that play on Homecoming. I have City of Heroes friends who have disabilities, are roleplayers, farmers, PvPers, base builders, LGBTQ+, raid runners, AE arc makers... There's no one 'player type' that we favor, because we're trying to ensure everyone who loves this game can play it and find enjoyment in doing the activities they prefer.

Friends sometimes bring broken things to my attention, or mention suggestions that have resulted in very quick additions (Rogue Arachnos chest details on VEATs or the Hero Corps chest detail) but no matter how good a friend, they're never any kind of factor on deciding if I'm going to take on a major project that's going to be hundreds of hours of work; That would be an incredibly nonsensical way to prioritize feature development in a game that has thousands of players.

Most of the dev team rarely finds time to play regularly because we normally put that free time towards working on new things/improvements. We approach development work objectively (and it is work, not fun, scripting missions or FX is not 'fun') and our decisions are motivated entirely by what we think is best for everyone who plays our game.

We do this for free, as a service to the community. Our reward is the satisfaction/fulfillment that comes from doing high-quality work and seeing players enjoy things we add.

How do we get involved prior to any development work to influence what changes are made to the game?

I'll just throw this out as an example - I have seen lots of requests on the forums for new enhancement sets (i.e. a purple fear set) or improvements to existing enhancement sets (i.e. take the knockback out of the Stupefy set). What I've never seen are requests for a whole bunch of new travel power enhancement sets. And yet a whole bunch of new travel power sets get added to the game. None of which seem to be actually used in builds. How does that happen? And how can we as volunteers steer that process better in the "conceptual" phase? Or would the developers prefer not to open up that part of the process?

Just curious as I would happily be involved prior to the Discord stage.

October 20, 2022

19 hours ago, Luminara said:

It is a small community. Whether or not folks who are unsettled by changes to the game "deserve" to be unsettled - I doubt there is much good to be served by mocking them.

Irrationally upset customers are still upset customers. I don't run AE missions - but rather than taking away from AE why not just add more to the regular game? The new ToT monsters are clearly pulling people out of AE in a much more positive manner than reducing rewards in AE. With much less gnashing of teeth. Except for the teeth gnashing by the monsters of course.

October 10, 2022

3 hours ago, shatterpoint said:

No problem. Happy to help. I do not mind pointing out that for new players, playing normally has no reward whatsoever.

To be fair – it is much more complicated than you are presenting. You can play the game normally and still be able to afford top end enhancements within a reasonable time frame. And it is generally rather fun going that route for a few toons. But it is obviously a much slower route. The “problem” is that this game offers a rather infinite number of power combinations – so that you are always tempted to create a new character. And of course you need top end enhancements for your new character, because – well, just because. And you need the team transporters and the catalysts and the boosters and on and on. The lure of creating new alts is the factory grind you speak of. When I played SWTOR for a while, I felt no compulsion to create dozens of alts. They all played pretty much the same any way. But in this game the grass is *always* greener elsewhere and I am always wanting to try something new. Often I want to roll many, many new alts right now. (I had my mind made up not to bother putting together a Battle Axe melee character because Battle Axe seemed so similar to Broad Sword & Mace. But with Page 5, now I will have to create a Battle Axe character. Sigh….) So in my opinion, the factory grind is mostly self-imposed.

But there is certainly a tension (perhaps an escalating tension) in this game between those who want an easier path to creating and outfitting and playing lots and lots of alts and those who want the game progression to be tighter, more rigorous, more interactive with other members of the community and more “normal game-centric”. And as you correctly note – it is now much easier to progress your alts on the fringes of the game. Using converters to flip enhancements and running customized AE missions. In my mind the obvious solution is to make the normal game rewards much, much better. I run Tin Mage & Apex because it is fun *and* because it helps character progression. There are not that many in-game missions where the reward is worth the effort if my sole goal is getting a new alt fully equipped. I also run SBB and the Heather Townsend arc. But not a whole lot else. Adding reward merits to incarnate offerings like BAF is a very nice step in the right direction.

The frustration that seems to be boiling over is that excitement over creating a new alt (like a new Battle Axe brute) is bumping up against changes to the game that appear to be designed to slow the progression of that new alt. I’m not personally convinced progression is being slowed all that dramatically but there are a lot of folks that obviously feel this is true. Gutting fringe activities like AE fire farms without providing a comparable in-game reward replacement will be quite frustrating if you just want that Battle Axe toon now. Now there is obviously a group here that feels nothing in-game should be easy. Progression to 50 and the acquisition of the best enhancements should involve suffering and pain. That seems silly to me. Why make a game feel like work? But I do sympathize with the position that AE and playing the market are pulling folks out of shared community activities. I would much rather run missions with other folks than flip enhancements ad nauseam. Making progression to 50 and the acquisition of all the goodies needed easier with way better in-game rewards won’t lessen my desire to play the game. There will always be another alt to try. But it will keep me involved with community play rather than grinding solo.

Removing the AE building from Atlas is not going to really address the fact that peripheral activities are more rewarding than in-game activities. And taking a hammer to those peripheral activities without making in-game rewards enticing will just frustrate the population segment that has played this game for years and years and now just wants to try out new combinations. On live I had multiple toons with all but 2 or 3 badges and who had run every single Ouro mission hero and villain side. I just don’t have the desire to do that anymore. But I am very excited to play the new Symphony Control – once I get through the half dozen alts in the queue ahead of that alt. My advice would be to keep all the crazy broken powers, add new crazy powers, make pool powers even better, add even more procs, add even more power sets, add even more purple sets, make progression super easy – BUT rework the rewards so that we play with one another rather pushing a mouse button over and over solo. Which in my mind means really, really, really good rewards for in-game and team play.

September 15, 2022

9 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Farming is NOT intended game play.

I believe you have actually distilled the debate down to a single sentence.

There seems to be a group of players - perhaps even most players - who now play the game in a somewhat unconventional manner (i.e. not as intended). And have fun playing the game in such a manner.

And there is another group of players who find this development rather upsetting. Something akin to casting a person of color as an elf in a Tolkien adaptation. The unconventional crowd obviously doesn't mind how anyone else plays. But the conventional crowd really dislikes unconventional play.

Since you mention playing D&D - as a kid we used to play "suicide chess" between classes and during lunch. The winner was the player who lost all their men first. If you can take an opposing chess piece, you have to take it. It was great fun and we did this for several years. But clearly this was not "intended game play" for chess. I assume you would find our unconventional youthful fun annoying? 🙂

So add me to the camp of folks who don't really understand why how we now play the game is so bothersome to you. I played the game "as intended" for a very long time. Now, as an old man, I just want to do what brings me the most joy.

September 6, 2022

I never played a MMO before City of Heroes. My two boys got me hooked. I had no idea a game could be so fun. When City of Heroes closed down I found myself rather devastated. I tried SWTOR thinking it might fill the void. But I found the whole experience rather horrible. People would yell obscenities at me during raids if I made any errors, I was booted from raid teams more often than I finished them, power customization was so minimal as to be laughable, everyone looked mostly the same as everyone else (Jedi warriors in brown capes leaping around everywhere), and the community was wildly toxic on a good day. The death blow was after finally getting my main painstakingly fully geared, the level cap bumped up and all the gear became worthless. I thought maybe it was just SWTOR but came to realize it was the basic model for most such games.

Once COH returned I was delighted to find it was even more accessible and even more solo friendly. On Live I mostly stuck with Scrappers because the time investment in fully slotting a toon was rather significant and I felt nervous experimenting with other AT’s or odd power combinations. But now I have been having a blast trying out every AT and powers I had never used on Live. Defenders and Night Widows are a revelation for me! Homecoming has been *much* more fun than Live.

So place me firmly in the camp of “Please don’t replicate the WOW model”. I understand a great many folks like that model. I was clearly in the minority at SWTOR. And I recognize that many players would like COH to be more like a “real” game. But COH is a remarkable game as is - in my opinion.

Even so, I would like to go on record as saying I think the development team has done a good job straddling the fence and trying to keep both warring tribes of raid enthusiasts and sandbox players happy. I personally think it is a wonderful idea to reward raid enthusiasts with vanity items. Most of these folks seem to do it for the challenge and the glory. So why not give them the cosmetic status to reflect their accomplishments. If there is a “lifespan of the sun” slow path to achieving the same status that seems rather generous. Maybe even a bit unfairly tilted toward sandbox players who will never touch this content. My concern is not adding hard mode raids or rewarding folks for completing such raids. My concern is the mindset that easy sandbox progression and sandbox play is incompatible with a “real” game filled with raids. It seems possible that the role-playing dabblers and the hardcore maniacs can both coexist. What I find alarming is the oft-stated zero sum approach that allowing sandbox play must come at the expense of serious gaming and/or serious gaming options will necessitate restrictions and added hurdles for sandbox play. But this seems to be coming mostly from forum posters and not from the development staff. The developers seem to be trying to navigate a middle ground.

The greatest heartburn seems to revolve around how much “struggle” should be required to fully level. For those seeking glory and status a cakewalk to 50 is unsatisfying. For sandboxers the leveling process is by and large tedium. Maintaining an easy path to 50 but allowing raiders post 50 challenge and cosmetic rewards seems an excellent compromise to me.

August 11, 2022

36 minutes ago, Neiska said:

@ShardWarrior @Bionic_Flea @America's Angel

Okay, just did a test and here are my info and figures.

Map - Biggs Comicon S/L Asteroid

Characters - 3 Boxing MM - Robot/Electric, Robot/Time, and Robot/Kinetic

Time to clear - 3:44

Total net Inf gained - 8,285,670

8,285,670/3.44= 2,408,625 inf/Minute

Note - this is flat inf gain only, no drops/recipes were taken into account as it is random.

Dunno if this will help as it is 3 boxing, but here it is.

PS - the net Inf/Hour would be - 144,517,500, not taking drops/salvage into account.

That seems completely consistent with what I was seeing playing as a solo toon on that map.

August 11, 2022

50 minutes ago, Neiska said:

Not everyone farms the same way - some have spines/fire brutes built for afk farming, other people take their level 50s and go farm on like, +2 or +3/8 or whatever they can handle. Not everyone farms with Elite Bosses on. Some do it with full teams, others do it strictly solo. And others still sit and do the math to figure out what is the best active farming, and then do that.

I am at work so not entirely sure of my numbers - but it seems like a solo toon playing the Brigg's 125 first mission at 4x8 received roughly 7 million for clearing the map. Just using random toons my clear times were in the 10 minute range. To get a 2.5 million per minute return you would have to clear that map in less than 3 minutes solo. Which seems rather amazing. But the build AA posted would be about as good as it gets in achieving that I suppose.

That all said - what matters I think for the purposes of this discussion is looking at the spread between AE and regular content. Presenting an AE number in isolation is somewhat meaningless. What could an amazing build in AE accomplish compared to an amazing build in regular content? The spread didn't seem so impactful to me personally. But I'm clearly not playing with optimized toons.

August 10, 2022

I was composing this when the Widower struck yesterday. J

As mentioned in another thread, I believe the developers simply want people to play slightly more “regular” content and slightly less AE content. Especially with new content being developed. It is an aesthetics / sensibilities driven decision. Which is their prerogative – but I believe it is difficult to force behavioral change upon people. Best to tempt players away from AE with better rewards in the content you want them to play. I also believe AE missions are often appealing for reasons unconnected to rewards. And that it is counter-productive to imply the change is for one reason (unbalanced rewards) when the actual reason might be otherwise (we just really want people to play the new content).

I don’t ever run AE missions, but just out of curiosity I created a dummy toon and paired it with my Stone/Rad tank. I picked the tank simply for survivability reasons. I ran the first mission of the Brigg’s 125 arc that has been referenced in this thread. (Very cool costumes in the mission!) After exactly 10 minutes of play at 4x8 settings the dummy toon advanced from level 1 to level 15.8 (with double experience boosters) and my tank had earned 3.4 million in influence. The tank gained roughly one quarter of a veteran level of experience. Then I did the same thing on a PI Council map. I found a map with the big warehouse at the end with no elevators. The dummy toon advanced to level 14.3 after 10 minutes of play at 4x8 settings and my tank earned 2.4 million in influence. The tank gained roughly one quarter of a veteran level of experience. I did this three times with basically the same results each time.

The AE map is clearly more efficient – at least for gaining influence. But mostly because the map is so compact and the mobs come running at you while you have to run at the mobs in the PI Council map. But it hardly seems like a game-breaking difference. Certainly not “orders of magnitudes” of difference as some have suggested. Over the course of an hour I would generate $6 million more influence running the AE map rather than the Council map. Compared to the return on spending an hour converting enhancements that seems like a minimal difference. Nonetheless the AE map returns roughly 40% more influence for my time. The difference in power leveling a second character and advancing in veteran levels to farm empyreans seems much less significant. Perhaps 10% more efficient.

It may well be that AE maps are easier to set up for AFK farming. I don’t honestly know because I don’t know how to set up AFK farms. But proposed game changes don’t seem directly targeted toward AFK activities. Perhaps a timer on AE maps as others have suggested? If the acquisition of empyreans through leveling and subsequent conversion to merits is seen as a problem – curtailing AE activity won’t solve that. You can level nearly as quickly through other content.

I think playing AE content just “feels” wrong to some people. Just like the Sentinel AT feels wrong to some. Or mission transporters feel wrong. Or whatever. But from my very limited tests AE does not seem like a threat to regular content. I would still choose regular content over AE content for leveling purposes. Gaining badges for accolades and such are more valuable to me than leveling slightly faster. And if I needed extra influence I would still convert enhancements rather than run an AE map. Honestly the only attraction for me was the simplified map. I find navigating needlessly complex caves and warehouses frustrating. There was something oddly pleasant about not running into walls over and over.

August 2, 2022

1 hour ago, arcane said:

Just my two cents: as someone with over 100 level 50’s (so I create characters right?), I do not see any of the new beta changes as making my playstyle significantly harder. You should just give the new patch a chance; it’s all very mild stuff.

I'm sure you are right. And I'm sure it will be fine.

But if the game was trending the other direction - a buff to AE rewards, a nerf to mob strength, easier progression to 50, jump kick and flurry transformed into the best powers in the game, a new level of play difficulty called "Cakewalk" and such - wouldn't you be feeling a bit anxious about what was happening?

I'm exaggerating to make a point of course, but many of us really like the game as it currently exists.

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